Robvolz 

My his/hers 1971 Cinelli came with Universal 61 brakes. I'm hoping to run some 35mm tires on them.

I don't think it would be out of line to install Universal 68s instead, if they accept wider tires than the 61s.

I don't mind having to deflate/inflate for wheel removal.

Robert

iab

repechage

Pretty good diagrams.

randyjawa 

I have run both and on different bikes. For my money, the Model 61 out performs the 68s. Easy to remove the wheel - pinch the brake blocks snug to the rim, unhook the straddle cable from the yoke, and Bob's your uncle...

Kilroy1988 

Or pair the Model 61s up with some quick-release cable guides and you're good to go!

repechage

there a washer between the holder and the arm that might be best under the acorn nut?

bikingshearer 

Using side pulls brakes, like Universal 68s or (especially) Campys, will make your life much less complicated than if you use Universal 61s. Side pulls do not need stops/.hangers for the cables. 61s do, as do any other center pull brake, and therein lies the rub. After you read the following, you will see my point - mounting any center-pull brakes on your Cinellis will cause problems because of the Cinelli's distinctive seat post bolt set-up. I had to figure all this out for myself - learn from my experience.

Take a look at Kilroy1988's photos. The front hanger he has (from Universal) or pretty much any front hanger with a QR cam will do. Not so in the back.

Compare my photo with Kilroy's. Note that the my Cinelli seat post bolt is significantly longer than Kilroy's because the of the way the seat post bolt tabs are positioned. If you use Kilroy's hanger (which looks like an official Universal hanger, BTW) on a Cinelli, it will make the cable hang off-center to the right. Universal made a Cinelli-specific rear hanger that looks very much like Kilroy's but has a attaching tab that goes further left (as you face it) which centers that cable properly. I found my hanger on eBay, and it set me back $90 plus shipping. I've seen the same guy with another one up for sale a time or two since, but I just looked and couldn't find one now. As far as I am aware, no one else made or makes a Cinelli-specific rear center pull cable hanger.

Other "normal" hangers, ones that attach both on the left and right sides, also will not work because there are made to fit the narrower tab spacing as on Kilroy's bike. And there is zero clearance between the seat post bolt and the frame, so the hangers that go around the bolt between the tabs won't work, either. Ah, the joys of proprietary technology.

There's one more complication with using Universal brakes of whatever stripe. Unless you use Universal levers or something similar, you will not be able to do a fine-adjust on your Universal brakes, whether 61s or 68s because Universal put the adjusting mech in the levers, not on the calipers or on the hangers. Add to that, the barrels on the hangers are unthreaded and too small in diameter to drop in an after-market threaded barrel adjuster. You would have to widen and probably thread the hanger barrel hole, which is beyond my skill set. Campy brakes calipers are self-contained - they have both the QR and the adjustment barrel on the calipers. Not so with Universal. You could use anybody's front hanger that has an adjusting barrel, but as discussed above, you do not have that flexibility with the rear hanger.

If it were me, and I was staying period-correct. I'd use Campy calipers and Universal levers (I think Campy levers of that era are hand hatchets and Universals are wider). Since I like the better mechanical advantage of aero levers (I pretty much have to brake from the hoods - I am no longer flexible enough to brake from the drops for any length of time), and I like the ergonomics of Campy 10sp ergo levers, I am using a set of such levers that have had the shifter guts removed. But I am a godless heretic.

I hope this helps

Robvolz 

Wow all,
thank you for the thoughtful responses.

Our bikes came with Universal 61s. Her rear qr looks factory. It never occurred to me it might be Cinelli specific.

mine is a bodge job with a campy quick release seat post bolt and brake QR in one.

the reasons for changing to the 68 are two-fold.
Note: I am trying to build the ultimate Cino style adventure set of bikes that can also be used for CC touring.

1, I want to use the widest tire possible. And clinchers. Other than my orange specialized stumpjumper sport, every bike I own uses sew-ups. There are some Pirelli Centurato H in 35 that look like the ticket. If I can go wider, I will.

2, I found deep in the co-op bins three sets of red anodized Universal 68s that I thought would look rather sweet.

In my naïvety, I thought the 2nd measurements stood for width (700c x 28) and not height. It wasn’t until iab sent the awesome graphic did I discover my error.

bikingshearer 

I, too, thought the second number stood for width. But with most tires - not all, but most - the height and width are going to be pretty close.

Also, whether you do with te 61s or the 68s, the first thing to do is replace the pads with Kool Stops or something similar. But you know that, didn't you . . . .

Kilroy1988 

The second measurement in tire size is definitely width. Most tires are shorter than they are wide once mounted on a rim (if said rim is of proper width) because part of the circular shape will be tucked into the rim and account for a loss there.

The Universal diagram of the brakes is showing the maximum and minimum reach for the brake pads to the rim along the horizontal and is not accounting for the size of the tire being inserted.

-Gregory

Robvolz 

Good to know height = width

same same

think I’ll stick with the 61s

even though the red 68s are dare say

(dare dare)

sexy

oneclick 

Consider this:

Given that you want a brake that will accept the widest possible tyre
a) for centrepulls if it clears at any point of the arm-arc it clears at all of them; but
b) not so with a sidepull as their pivot is inboard of the outer edge of the tyre, so as the brake is applied the width reduces.

Of course this is not the only factor, it may be that the smallest likely sidepull width is sufficient, or that you can accomodate with spacers on the pad studs.

repechage

or buy a big life insurance policy.

Mr. 66

I would take the 61 over the 68, but realistically I don't favor the levers. I've always thought of the levers as brittle. Recently I was going to go with 68, but I wavered. I had trouble get the pivot bolt that wasn't broken on the front, but what really turned me away was cracks at the arm to slot transitions.

I would never use that for Mrs. 66.

Robvolz 

I think the levers are the same for both the 61 and 68.

all the ebay ads say this

oneclick 

The failures I've seen were all at the joint of the body and the adjuster; and it was the body that failed.
I think the alloy may be unsuited to maritime climes.

bikingshearer 

One last thing: On any Universal brake, do not under any circumstances try to toe in the pads by bending the caliper arms. For whatever reason, Universals are much more prone to snap off if you do that than is the case with other brake calipers. Fortunately, I did not have to learn this one the hard way, but benefited from the experience of others who did.

As my photo shows, I have 61s on my blue Cinelli. They kept me under control in the Cino moondust, The front one squealed almost as much as Mafacs. I cheated and stole the pad holders off a pretty much defunct Tektro that has the holders with the multi0adjustable bolt/nut arrangement. No more squeal.

Food for thought.

Robvolz 

I had heard that about the toe-in. I've created my own toe-in with a belt sander.