rydabent

Im sure most of us has seen the story of a recumbent rider that that won a hill climb. It kinda lays to rest some what the fact that that recumbents cant climb. So-----------when the recumbent won they outlawed it!!! Just like 1934 all over again.

Isnt it about time the cycling community realize that time moves on. Science and engineering move on. What if the high wheel ordinary riders had prevailed. The claimed the riders of the "new" safety bikes were not real wheelmen. The diamond frame bike has been prostituted anyway. They are not made out of round tubing, most racing bikes are now CF and molded into an aero shape. Isnt that cheating. Hell if auto racing were as stiff necked as the cycling community was they would still be racing Model Ts.

BlazingPedals

I, for one, have no idea what you're talking about.

Retro Grouch 

That's funny. You mean there's a version of auto raceing that's not?

Nascar's Sprint Cup racers are identical except for engines. The grills and headlights are painted on. Indianapolis racers are even more so. In Formula 1 everything is prohibited except for the things that are mandatory.

jim hughes

Actually, I don't understand why, in today's world, recumbents aren't allowed in professional racing. Does anyone know the real reason? Is it just that the big bike manufacturers, who put money into the teams, don't want recumbents to be seen, because they know 90% of the the fans will buy whatever the pros are riding?


I'm hoping for some serious replies here.

prathmann

It's pretty standard in sports to have strict rules on the equipment that's to be used. As Retro Grouch pointed out, that's certainly true in car racing but has little impact on the features or designs that are available for my family car. It's also the case for all the various classes of sailboat racing and for assorted other sports - baseball, golf, tennis, etc. But note that you can still buy golf balls that'll go farther than regular ones - you just better not be caught using them if you're on the pro tour. I don't see the problem with professional bike racing imposing rules for the equipment used in their events - but again, it has little to do with the bikes I might want to buy since I have no illusions about entering the Tour de France.

JanMM

Was that a thread on bentrideronline? I don't think that the fellow won the hillclimb, as I recall.

He finished 63rd before being disqualified.
https://www.recumbentjournal.com/news...qualified.html

dougfoot

As a trike rider and having participated in recumbent specific races, I feel it best that we organize our own competitive groups and lead by example. We are in a niche market and being such are prone to be ignored or even discriminated against.

Doug
https://www.crazytrike.com

Jeff Wills

Thanks, Doug- that's why I started the Portland Human Power Challenge 11 years ago: https://www.ohpv.org/HPC/albumshpc/pir2000/results.htm . had fun running the event, burnt out, now I have fun participating.

Rydabent: the Ultramarathon community allows 'bents to race alongside uprights, same courses, same time. Some of them are "converting". Not a whole lot, but they're discovering the advantage of an aero bike that doesn't force the rider into something out of Marquis de Sade.

BlazingPedals

After reading the link provided on the BROL thread, it seems the 'bent rider would have been DQed no matter what place he had taken because he wasn't using a UCI bike. That's not discrimination; if the competition follows UCI rules, then competitors must use the proper equipment. All it took was one other competitor to rat him out and call the organizers' attention to him.

The 'bent rider was on a Cruzbike. Probably somewhat rare in Europe. Without more details, I'd be tempted to call it a publicity stunt.

Brightwork

Lots of things that would make the riders faster are not permitted by UCI regulations. There are bike weight minimums, clothing, doping and equipment restrictions for example that could all give an edge to a rider. Would love to see them allow full fairing bikes on the descents though, but that's a different story.

LesterOfPuppets

I'd imagine almost anyone on a recumbent would have trouble staying on a wheel and would get dropped within a couple of hours in any kind of a road race with frequent attacks.

And, yeah, I'd agree that independent 'bent races are the best way to go for now. It would be cool if some road races had a recumbent category where interest was high enough to merit such a category.

cyclistbrian

Disclaimer: I've owned three recumbents, a Trek, A Volae 26 20, and a Cycle Genuis LWB with fairing similar to a Tour Easy. Presently I do not own a recumbent but have about 20,000 bent miles.
Some thoughts in no particular order:
Recumbents would not be competitive in road racing.
Road bikes would not competitive in a race optimised for recumbents.
If recumbents and recumbent racing ever become popular enough to become organized along the lines of road or mountain bike racing and the intention is the see who is the best athelete, then what ever recumbents are used, they'd need to be standardized within a set of parameters.
If the intention is to prove what HPV technology is faster given comparable atheletes then this type of thing already exists. I'm thinking here of the various human powered vehicle challenges.
Look at it this way, you don't race a top fuel dragster on a road course against a formula one car. Some things don't mix and that doesn't mean there's a conspiracy.

BlazingPedals

I agree. I recently did the Avita Water Black Bear. There is a recumbent class. Unfortunately, ALL recumbents are lumped together. First place was a streamliner. third place was an F-40 (nosecone and full body sock.) All other (stock) recumbents placed well back from those two. There's a reason why HPRA classifies recumbents by the amount of fairing they have. But in most races that allow bents at all, splitting up an already small recumbent field further to separate streamliner, super street, super stock, and stock, just isn't practical.

edwong3

Interesting thread. Several years ago, on an HPV oriented forum, I do remember reading about how Bram Moens of M5, participated in a road race which involved substantial climbing, and virtually dominated.

He was riding of course one of his super lightweight, carbon fiber, skinny tired racers.: After his stellar performance on the M5, recumbents were banned from participating in future events with that particular organization. So this is not a rare occurrence in the competitive cycling world.

I think we're "beating a dead horse" We're not going to see recumbents compete in UCI sanctioned events. And the sad truth is that the recumbent industry is in a "catch 22" situation.

There needs to be more sales of recumbents in order to have the revenues necessary to sponsor more HPV races, increase advertising budgets, raise more awareness, etc. But if the recumbent industry doesn't increase it's profile in the cycling industry, sales will have a hard time climbing out of it's present levels. Oh well!

karjak

It kind of is a shame that bents can't enter in more competative events with the DF crowd. I myself am not familiar with any specific HIll Climbing races. However if it goes with the same rules as any road race, I guess participants would have a right to complain that UCI regs. weren't being followed. With some of the lighter Carbon framed bents like the Carbent being put out there. would be nice to see more people realize that some bents can really climb.

DF rider friends of mine who participated in the Triple ByPass in Colorado said quite a few bents were in this event. Not a race, but offered good exposure on what they can do.

I ride a recumbent and have had the opportunity to do some TT's with local cycling club and also in the State Senior games. My daughter races as a Cat 2 in Minnesota. Wouldn't want her racing with bents in a road race and even more so in a Criterium. TT's a whole different story. As for myself, I get a little incentive to push out a little harder in non-competive events like Century runs or MS-Rides. Even though not a race I always try to finish in a fast time. With a Hi-Racer I really do think I am a roadie.

digitalmouse

We have these already!
https://www.ihpva.org/home/
https://www.hpva.us/
https://www.whpva.org/

cyclistbrian

I think the larger point is that road racing is supossed to be about the rider, not the bike. And while in the real world it's often about who can afford the best chemistry the bikes are largely the same save for superficial differences. You would not hear someone state that so and so lost the TDF because his bike was inferior. Therefore you wouldn't mix bents and df bikes. And again, if you wanted similar results from bent racing, they'd have to be the same format. Could be highracer stick bikes or what ever format but you're not going to see streamliners racing highracers or it becomes about the bike, not the rider.

My 2 cents and I'm not trying to start a flame war is that while bents can climb anything (I've ridden Mt. Greylock and other similar terrain) you cannot hammer up hills at df speed. You can't make up going down what you lost going up and even if you could by the time you did everyone else is on the next above category climb dropping you like a bad habit. Again, apples and oranges. I liked my 'bents for their own sake. In big hills or mountains I am always significantly faster on a DF and I doubt my experience is unique. However ultimate speed is not always the point...and decending a pass on a good 'bent is a otherworldly experience everyone should have the opportunity to try.

karjak

Why not get a little flames going, only adds to the interest? Just curious at what bent you ride and at what speed up say an 8% incline? You may very well be right, but I think with some of the lighter carbon framed bents (ex. Carbent) a well conditioned rider could come very close if not equal DF speeds going up some of the steeper hills.
I haven't really tried a truly long accent with my AB HiRacer. I do know its not a lightweight at 24-25 lbs. (est. with new Carbon seat), but I have been able to keep up with or go faster on local hills with riders in my area. Some of the riders in my riding group just came back fron the Triple BiPass in Colorado. Today I paced equally up the hills with a our strongest rider on our Tuesday River Hills ride route. I would love to try a sub 20 lb. bent. Just don't have the $6000 to spend.

cyclistbrian

Haven't owned a 'bent in three years. Still look at them and am considering a Tour Easy. As I mentioned in an earlier post I've had a trek, a Cycle Genius LSW similar to a Tour Easy and finally a Volae 26 / 20. Have ridden Bachetta hi racers and tried some tadpole trikes. Maybe about 20,000 bent miles. If you subscribed to Recumbent Cyclist News back in the day you may have read my road test of the Volae Tour. Great bike, sometimes wish I still had it. At the time I stated it was my favorite bike ever and it was. But I really like a lwb in a bent. They decend mountain passes like they are on rails.

In 2005 I rode 5 centuries on that Volae, one solo in five and a half hours including rest stops over flat to rolling terrain. I'm not saying a bent can't be fast. That's an entirely different discussion than "the ban" or climbing. I do recall that for serious climbs any bent I've ever ridden was much slower. I found that hammering big gears was counter productive. You need to spin low gears at a high rpm.

And here is where the DF wins out keeping in mind we're talking racing where these guys go up the Alps for miles at a time at very high speed. You can spin a much higher gear on a DF more efficiently. If nothing else you've got gravity pulling your legs down each stroke, you've got the ability to stand and sprint for a gap on your opponent or to answer an attack. It's just not the same. Not worse, not better, just different. In a lot of ways the entire rythym of riding a 'bent is different than a df. Conserve momentum for the rollers because you can't stand and muscle over them, gear down low for big climbs and so on. I couldn't tell you more specifically how fast I rode any given hill as it's been a good while and I've not kept a log since I raced a bit in the ninties. But I did climb Mt Greylock which gets sub alpine terrain at the summit. Sit, spin, it was fun and pretty easy at the time. Just not particularly speedy.

Stage races like the Giro or the Tour are won in the mountains. Even the riders who take the lead in a time trial (think Big Mig) seal the deal by not conceeding a second when the road goes up. I think if there is a desire and a demand for recumbent road racing we'll eventually see it. A recumbent version of a stage race or spring classic would be well worth following. Well that's all I have to say on the topic.