Schwinn Voyageur SP 1984 Convert to 700c?
06-23-23, 08:46 PM
#26
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Wheelbase/chainstay length changes the feel a lot. I grew up on longer chain stay bikes, Varsity etc and they were utility bikes that looked like a racer. I still prefer touring geometry, it's comfy and forgiving. Or sport touring geometry. My first bike with shorter chain stays and steeper angles drove me nuts. I could never get used to having to constantly mind the bike. If I ever find a V SP in my size I will buy it fast. I donate a huge one, 68cm, to a Cino Heroica rider. He is still riding that beast.
https://sandro.knot.org/wp-content/u...comparison.pdf
06-23-23, 09:58 PM
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RiddleOfSteel and Lbxpdx your stories sound like mine: Swift Tires on a time capsule bike. I lucked out with a 22" which fits perfectly. It was even set at the exact seat height and angle for me.
My front 27" tire is very close to the front of the fender, but isn't rubbing.
Lbxpdx, it's interesting what you said about the Blackburn rack adding stiffness, because that was something I was wondering about. I also have a Berhoud bag I'd like to use. I have the medium size, so no need to raise the handlebars.
It's interesting: I have a 1968 Paramount P-13. It's my favorite bike I've ever ridden--over full carbon featherweights; handmade Italian exotics, OS tubing steel racers. It feels so light and lively (alive, really) it floats down the road, effortlessly building speed. I took the wheels off and found that with fenders and a small front rack, it weighs the same the fendered Voyageur SP without wheels or racks, yet the Voyageur feels so much heavier.
I believe this has to do with balance. The VSP is very tail heavy. The front rack helps balance this out.
My front 27" tire is very close to the front of the fender, but isn't rubbing.
Lbxpdx, it's interesting what you said about the Blackburn rack adding stiffness, because that was something I was wondering about. I also have a Berhoud bag I'd like to use. I have the medium size, so no need to raise the handlebars.
It's interesting: I have a 1968 Paramount P-13. It's my favorite bike I've ever ridden--over full carbon featherweights; handmade Italian exotics, OS tubing steel racers. It feels so light and lively (alive, really) it floats down the road, effortlessly building speed. I took the wheels off and found that with fenders and a small front rack, it weighs the same the fendered Voyageur SP without wheels or racks, yet the Voyageur feels so much heavier.
I believe this has to do with balance. The VSP is very tail heavy. The front rack helps balance this out.
My past P15 Paramounts ('74, '73) have been strong riders, but very willing out-of-the-saddle rockers. My '73 was a 66cm (vs 63.5cm of the '74) and that extra length and height added to the flex/whip factor. Fun bike to ride. My favorite riders are and have been full-531 Treks (700-level). Willing, lively, responsive, lovely steering. Two 715s and a 720, so the longer wheelbase stuff, which works well with my height (proportionally similar in wheelbase to a 55cm race bike essentially). The Columbus-tubed bikes, all Schwinns, all tend to have stiff rear triangles that make them less willing to sinew, snake, and rock when out of the saddle for climbing or accelerating. Built for (more) watts or weight, I guess.
Anyway, now I need to go get that bike out and swap wheels!
But first, since we're sharing photos, haha:
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06-24-23, 01:54 PM
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you might have an 85. I don’t think they offered a 22” VSP in 84.
https://sandro.knot.org/wp-content/u...comparison.pdf
https://sandro.knot.org/wp-content/u...comparison.pdf
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06-24-23, 04:53 PM
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It is just the eternal mystery how some bikes behave the way they do. I've done a ton of thinking, experimenting/component swapping, and riding of various bikes, and sometimes it's simply a component or two that close the gap between man and machine. Other times it's placement of handlebars (really, brake levers, and how high they are). My VSP is also pretty stiff in feel when it comes to out of saddle riding. Maybe the heavy 40-spoke wheels aren't helping me out. It may be like you did, put a front rack on it, heck, any load, and watch it smooth out. Like 3/4 and 1 ton trucks: chuck a bit of weight in the bed and they settle and smooth out. Works with my truck certainly!
My past P15 Paramounts ('74, '73) have been strong riders, but very willing out-of-the-saddle rockers. My '73 was a 66cm (vs 63.5cm of the '74) and that extra length and height added to the flex/whip factor. Fun bike to ride. My favorite riders are and have been full-531 Treks (700-level). Willing, lively, responsive, lovely steering. Two 715s and a 720, so the longer wheelbase stuff, which works well with my height (proportionally similar in wheelbase to a 55cm race bike essentially). The Columbus-tubed bikes, all Schwinns, all tend to have stiff rear triangles that make them less willing to sinew, snake, and rock when out of the saddle for climbing or accelerating. Built for (more) watts or weight, I guess.
Anyway, now I need to go get that bike out and swap wheels!
But first, since we're sharing photos, haha:
My past P15 Paramounts ('74, '73) have been strong riders, but very willing out-of-the-saddle rockers. My '73 was a 66cm (vs 63.5cm of the '74) and that extra length and height added to the flex/whip factor. Fun bike to ride. My favorite riders are and have been full-531 Treks (700-level). Willing, lively, responsive, lovely steering. Two 715s and a 720, so the longer wheelbase stuff, which works well with my height (proportionally similar in wheelbase to a 55cm race bike essentially). The Columbus-tubed bikes, all Schwinns, all tend to have stiff rear triangles that make them less willing to sinew, snake, and rock when out of the saddle for climbing or accelerating. Built for (more) watts or weight, I guess.
Anyway, now I need to go get that bike out and swap wheels!
But first, since we're sharing photos, haha:
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06-25-23, 06:00 PM
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Schwinn did the 74° HT for a while in the '80s. I don't know the reason, but road or tour, by ~1984, that was the flavor. Road bikes had 73° HT angles, and touring, ostensibly for extra stability (wheelbase and front end geo/trail), were 72°. I'm a big fan of 72° HT angles. I think it was fairly common to do so on touring bikes. Miyatas and Cannondales had them as well. My Trek 720 is also 72°. 74° for a seat tube angle is steeper than normal--more race/crit bike from what I've seen in catalogs (Fuji, anyone??)--but it was a Schwinn thing is about all I can guess. For Paramounts, the Chicago era was a lot of 73/73, then the Waterford '80s saw 73/74, while the very late '80s (1989) and into the '90s, they flipped it with 74° HTs and 73° (or slacker at the tallest sizes). The 74/73 theme continues to be what I see today, with the XL sizes I ride often at a 72.5° ST angle. No setback seat posts for me..
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06-26-23, 05:07 PM
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06-26-23, 05:09 PM
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06-26-23, 05:15 PM
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I've continued to work on the bike: adding some new bar tape; lowered the brake levers to the proper place; put back the downtube shifters. The Le Tech shifts nicely. I think it would be fun to add a second set of lightweight 700c wheels eventually, but the Phil Wood hubs spin like nobody's business. I've had Phil Woods before, but don't remember them spinning so freely.
I've read few mentions of the unusual frame geometry. Can someone go into detail about why they might have built these frames with the angles, head 72 deg; seat 74 deg?
I've read few mentions of the unusual frame geometry. Can someone go into detail about why they might have built these frames with the angles, head 72 deg; seat 74 deg?
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06-28-23, 08:45 PM
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I converted my 88 Voyaguer with DiaCompe 983 canti to 700C with a 126OLN 105 36 spoke hub The 983's have NO height adjustment other than rotating the pad which does not give a square pad to the 700C rim. I believe the "980" are all the same in this respect.
Also, could not fit a 700C tire wider than 32mm on the front. A 700x35 cleared the rear chainstay by a hair. Went back to 32's
This was meant to tour and carry loads. Suggest for asking or looking for a lightweight set of 27" rims Converting from a freewheel to a cassette also reduces rear wheel weight.
Also, the Schwinn 1984 catalog scans do NOT show the Voyaguer SP with any type of fender. They are easily added on and yours look to have a good fender line
John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ
Also, could not fit a 700C tire wider than 32mm on the front. A 700x35 cleared the rear chainstay by a hair. Went back to 32's
This was meant to tour and carry loads. Suggest for asking or looking for a lightweight set of 27" rims Converting from a freewheel to a cassette also reduces rear wheel weight.
Also, the Schwinn 1984 catalog scans do NOT show the Voyaguer SP with any type of fender. They are easily added on and yours look to have a good fender line
John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ
06-29-23, 12:14 AM
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The 980 has sufficient vertical height adjustment to facilitate 27" to 700c conversions and can also set pad toe angle.
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06-29-23, 01:47 AM
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My '85 VSP will easily fit 35s, with an absolute max width of 38mm thanks to the front fork.
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06-29-23, 08:20 AM
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I've continued to work on the bike: adding some new bar tape; lowered the brake levers to the proper place; put back the downtube shifters. The Le Tech shifts nicely. I think it would be fun to add a second set of lightweight 700c wheels eventually, but the Phil Wood hubs spin like nobody's business. I've had Phil Woods before, but don't remember them spinning so freely.
I've read few mentions of the unusual frame geometry. Can someone go into detail about why they might have built these frames with the angles, head 72 deg; seat 74 deg?
I've read few mentions of the unusual frame geometry. Can someone go into detail about why they might have built these frames with the angles, head 72 deg; seat 74 deg?
I'm probably that person that keeps mentioning the geometry on the VSP- it always takes me a few miles to get used to the way the VSP rides, and I think because of that steep seat tube it feels smaller than similar bikes.
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