Dave Cutter

I don't think Apple uses actual GPS [satellites] but instead triangulates location using the phone towers.

wphamilton

That's one I haven't looked into yet. I'll give it a whirl.

DogBoy

To be clear, I am not referring to solutions that require anything beyond the phone (such as the OBDII dongles). These apps all use a combination of gps, wifi & cell tower (and more) info to detect trip starts passively, or with no user input. Same with the stops. They work on bikes also, but they wouldnt be able to snag HR, cadence or power without additional sensors.

I don't think you would like the price...

Dave Cutter

I am an old man that still always carries change (coins).... because I remember life (and developed a habit) when phone booths were on every corner. But those days are long gone! It isn't that you haven't "kept up" with technology... because the old tech you grew up with is now gone.... you've stepped backwards.

Don't forget the original Luddites arose largely during economic upheaval and widespread unemployment. The Luddites blamed the progress of the [earliest part of the] industrial revolution.... and their protest were violent. But they were completely mistaken. It was the failure to embrace the new technologies that caused the economic problems of the day (back then). And I believe the same is happening NOW.

There are huge benefits from the available technologies. A lot more than just returning to a time when a phone was/are/is again available to you. Our whole economy is information/technology/service based. If enough of us old coots continue to back-out of the progress... our grandkids will continue to wait to enjoy the economic benefits.

gregf83 

Apple uses GPS like all smartphones. They use info from the wireless network to speed up the initial satellite acquisition. I don't think they log the data as frequently as a Garmin so cellphone tracks might look a little noisier.

I-Like-To-Bike

I understand that some people get a charge just by reading "data" from their gee-whiz gadgets and "apps". I am not one of those guys.

Besides a lot of techno-love prose, do you have anything to say about what benefits, economic or otherwise, I may have been missing by not being wired in/wired up and gathering "stats" while bicycle commuting?

DogBoy

But....Data!!!! I took my bike computer off my commuter bike. I still have all the gadgets on my go-fast bike, but I spend most of my time on that bike in my den on a trainer where the data on the screen is the only scenery I get.

kickstart

There's a lot of evidence that shows the more one stimulates their brain with analytical, and creative input, the less likely they will they'll suffer from Alzheimers as they age.

I-Like-To-Bike

Sounds like someone rationalizing his habit/addiction to texting/reading good ideas and great thoughts on a smartphone while driving.
No wonder the gadgets are called Smartphones, eh?

wphamilton

The main thing I've been insisting on in this thread is that it should work without interaction. So there would be no texting, reading or other attention given to the device.

Data gives us the tools to improve ourselves, our environment, other things. If that motivation is not present, or if a person doesn't see how it could be used, then it is pointless to him. But not to others.

Dave Cutter

The iPhone sure didn't use to! I went most of the season with my cycling app shaving my miles. I lost 5-10% of every ride I took (compared to my regular bicycle computer)..... until the 9 OS upgrade.

wphamilton

Detecting a trip is easy - you're moving. But details and context. Google thinks I started when I rolled the bike out my front door and included coasting down the sidewalk, and that tying up the rack, walking through the parking garage and even up stairs is part of my cycling trip. In the google tracking context it's reasonable. It's all part of the trip that's best described as "cycling" and it's reasonable to include everything up to my ultimate destination. Google seems interested in the total time for a trip, among other aggregates. That doesn't really work though if you want precise metrics of the activity.

I still don't think it should be all that hard though. Even if I have to stop several times in the lot waiting for cars, and easing around children and dogs, I think an algorithm could determine just from motion that it was a bike, when you left the sidewalk, when you left the lot even. Add accelerometer data and it could be further refined.

It also seems to me that the app should also know what to do with it, within configurable parameters. Do I really want a trip to Best Buy loaded to Strava? Or seeing a medical specialist? Probably not but maybe I do want to tally that effort. Training ride or sprint intervals, maybe I do want to upload it. It would be useful if the app evaluated these things and took care of it.

I wouldn't want to waste time developing an android app if there's one already having a good subset of these features. It might in fact ultimately take more time than I'd ever save from not having to fumble with unnecessary user interfaces. But I don't see any insurmountable technical difficulty in what I want from it.

Dave Cutter

No. I don't know you! I can only share with you what benefits I reap.

It would be like explaining to someone how riding a bicycle could improve their life. You can try... but it will sound like a bunch of "bicycle-love prose".... if you know what I mean.

Do I know people who have earned a few extra bucks with an app(s) they wrote? Yeah... I know a couple coders that have sold software. But for them... it wasn't just the money. They improved peoples lives.

Have my garage door alert saved me from a burglary? Probably not really. But I am sure it has saved me a few heating/cooling dollars. Does my security cameras really deter a break-in... who knows. But the comfort of feeling secure does have value.

So do many people in the area where I live work in the technology fields? Yes they do! This area of the old rust belt has been re-born thanks to technology. There are endless numbers of people evolved in services and products related to new Web/cloud/tech use. Heck even the books I buy now are digital. And I can keep them forever... without them ever gathering dust. The same can be said for digital movies.

Being retired... I can assure you I earn nothing via technological progress. Do I save some money? likely not. Is my live richer, fuller, smarter, and more connected to the other humans that I love.... YES. Yes it is.

Dave Cutter

The thing is... technology involves doing things differently.... change. People naturally resist change. Did the original Luddites slow the progress of mills (and other factories)? Yes they did. And hungry, naked, children continued to be the norm for decades longer than they needed to. People today complain about "consumerism"... like warm clothing being too labor intensive to use for children's clothing was a good thing?!?!?

The ONLY way we really benefit from the new tech is to embrace it. Then learn to bend and mold the technology (and our own habits).

I-Like-To-Bike

Who said anything about saving money? Ya mean bike commuting life is richer, smarter, and more connected to loved ones when the commuters track data about their bike commute route? Sounds more like a treatment for OCD symptoms.

Retired? Sounds like now you work at being a techie flack for free.

wphamilton

You're preaching to the choir here. It's not just changing technology either. The routine, where nothing ever changes, is deadening. You can lose years to it. Embracing change (hopefully for the better) and the agents of change such as new technology is the answer to that.

Dave Cutter

That would be YOU. (see below)

I do bunches of stuff for free! I like volunteering. And I bicycle a lot too. I wasn't sure what a "techie flack" was... so I googled it. Apparently "flack" is urban slang meaning "press agent". Its interesting (humorous?) that you think technology needs someone to help its "press". But it is nice that I can reference obscure slang terms from anywhere in the world.... instead of having to ask my homies.

gregjones

It would look as if there is nothing in this thread for you............

All you have to do is not read it.

Why the "gimmie a F" do you think you are adding the first benefit to anyone but yourself? Do you really think that anyone cares about your opinion.

Move the "gimmie a F" on and have a good night.

No one cares.

kickstart

You asked for an example of a possible benefit..............

Like I said earlier, my interest is strictly curiosity and amusement which doesn't need to rationalized as its of no consequence.