Ultegra 6700 shifting issues. Tried everything.
03-06-19, 03:06 PM
#1
glorified 5954
Thread Starter
Ultegra 6700 shifting issues. Tried everything.
I am using a long cage Ultegra 6700 RD with an 11-27 DA cassette and a 52/39/30 crank.
Since I built the bike up it has had very touchy shifting in the back. By touchy, I mean that it has a very slight window where it will shift both up and down without much hesitation between the gears. Even when perfect, it still hesitates on some of the gears. Once there is a significant temperature change, I need to adjust the cable tension or it again won't shift correctly. The B screw was removed. With any pre-load from it, the shifting was absolutely crap. Only be removing it, did the shifting improve dramatically.
Anyway. After removing the bar tape and checking the cable routing, I found nothing that would cause this issue. Decided to replace the shifter cable anyway and re-do the routing without avail. Problem stayed. The shimano shifting cable housing is seated perfectly into the shifter and all routing points with either sram or shimano end caps.
This issue drove me to buy a Park Tool RD alignment tool which didn't end up helping.
So I remembered reading somewhere about measuring the cable throw length, so I did this:
My marker ran nearly dry during this measurement so I edited the photo in order to see them better.The lines accurately portray the shifting problem which occurs towards the middle gears. But what issue is this? Is my shifter crap? Why would the throw length not stay constant? I can only think that there is a compressed fitting somewhere but I checked and all the routing and fittings are high quality shimano or sram and the cable itself is new shimano shifting cable.
I have already purchased a new Ultegra 11 speed shifter, RD (GS), and Cassette and plan to install them this weekend using the same cable. I am interested to see if this solves the issue, which I believe it will. I have another bike with 11 speed ultegra and love it. Never had better shifting.
Since I built the bike up it has had very touchy shifting in the back. By touchy, I mean that it has a very slight window where it will shift both up and down without much hesitation between the gears. Even when perfect, it still hesitates on some of the gears. Once there is a significant temperature change, I need to adjust the cable tension or it again won't shift correctly. The B screw was removed. With any pre-load from it, the shifting was absolutely crap. Only be removing it, did the shifting improve dramatically.
Anyway. After removing the bar tape and checking the cable routing, I found nothing that would cause this issue. Decided to replace the shifter cable anyway and re-do the routing without avail. Problem stayed. The shimano shifting cable housing is seated perfectly into the shifter and all routing points with either sram or shimano end caps.
This issue drove me to buy a Park Tool RD alignment tool which didn't end up helping.
So I remembered reading somewhere about measuring the cable throw length, so I did this:
My marker ran nearly dry during this measurement so I edited the photo in order to see them better.The lines accurately portray the shifting problem which occurs towards the middle gears. But what issue is this? Is my shifter crap? Why would the throw length not stay constant? I can only think that there is a compressed fitting somewhere but I checked and all the routing and fittings are high quality shimano or sram and the cable itself is new shimano shifting cable.
I have already purchased a new Ultegra 11 speed shifter, RD (GS), and Cassette and plan to install them this weekend using the same cable. I am interested to see if this solves the issue, which I believe it will. I have another bike with 11 speed ultegra and love it. Never had better shifting.
03-06-19, 03:23 PM
#2
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I have already purchased a new Ultegra 11 speed shifter, RD (GS), and Cassette and plan to install them this weekend using the same cable. I am interested to see if this solves the issue, which I believe it will. I have another bike with 11 speed ultegra and love it. Never had better shifting.
03-06-19, 04:14 PM
#3
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You say you’ve replaced the cable, but have you replaced the housing?
03-06-19, 04:30 PM
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How is the shifter cable run around the bottom bracket? Is there a guide under there that might be buggered up? If it's bare cable going over a guide then make certain the cable isn't cutting into the guide and jamming itself.
Are those marks in your picture made during the pull or release of tension?
Are those marks in your picture made during the pull or release of tension?
03-06-19, 04:35 PM
#5
glorified 5954
Thread Starter
How is the shifter cable run around the bottom bracket? Is there a guide under there that might be buggered up? If it's bare cable going over a guide then make certain the cable isn't cutting into the guide and jamming itself.
Are those marks in your picture made during the pull or release of tension?
Are those marks in your picture made during the pull or release of tension?
03-06-19, 04:58 PM
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What model are the shifters you're having trouble with? The 6700 changed pull ratios from previous ultegra.
03-06-19, 05:16 PM
#7
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03-06-19, 05:24 PM
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My initial thought is something silly like the shifter cable being run to the wrong side of the cable fixing bolt. That would change the effective pull ratio & fix or bugger shifting depending of what stuff you are trying to get to play together.
Are you using brake cable housing or shift cable housing? There is a difference, but it's common to mix up the 2 kinds. Even the compressionless brake housing looks like shifter cable in terms of construction. The only tell is the slightly larger inner bore.
That being said, the system you have (50-32)+(27-11)=38 tooth capacity. What is the capacity of the derailleur in question? My gut says you would be better off with the SGS version if there is such a thing than the shorter version of derailleur. The derailleur spec sheet should have capacity listed in the "specs" section. Ultegra is what? 37 tooth? I don't remember. In any case, you have a 22 tooth difference in the front. I don't know if that is having any effect. I think 16 tooth difference up front is all Shimano allows.
This is off the top of my head. Find the spec sheet.
Are you using brake cable housing or shift cable housing? There is a difference, but it's common to mix up the 2 kinds. Even the compressionless brake housing looks like shifter cable in terms of construction. The only tell is the slightly larger inner bore.
That being said, the system you have (50-32)+(27-11)=38 tooth capacity. What is the capacity of the derailleur in question? My gut says you would be better off with the SGS version if there is such a thing than the shorter version of derailleur. The derailleur spec sheet should have capacity listed in the "specs" section. Ultegra is what? 37 tooth? I don't remember. In any case, you have a 22 tooth difference in the front. I don't know if that is having any effect. I think 16 tooth difference up front is all Shimano allows.
This is off the top of my head. Find the spec sheet.
Last edited by base2; 03-06-19 at 05:47 PM.
03-06-19, 06:28 PM
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03-06-19, 08:14 PM
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This is a cable abd housing problem. I have 6700 on my Wilier and it takes a bit fo dial in. When it is dialed in there is not a lot of room for error or adjustment but they shift fine. Get the new polymer coated cables and housing and used for the 6800. Make sure all your housing sits correct with proper rear loop. Don’t let rear loop be too tight and go around bars carefully. Take path of least resistance and is your cables internal? If internal just make sure everything is going smooth no kinks. You also need to make sure to use brass ferrules at housing in rear the set cimes with this.
03-06-19, 08:23 PM
#11
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DM is on the right track. I remember a discussion with Trek shop techs back a few years ago just after a training session, and they remarked that replacing the plastic ferrules with metal ones was supposed to cure exactly this issue.
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03-07-19, 07:49 AM
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Nobody has mentioned derailleur hanger alignment yet? Definitely worth checking. Most of the time when I've encountered a rear shifting issue that didn't respond to normal tuning, that's been it.
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03-07-19, 08:36 AM
#13
glorified 5954
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I wanted to do this but the metal ferrules that I have do not fit into all of the bike's cable guides. I will try to source some that fit.
03-07-19, 08:38 AM
#14
glorified 5954
Thread Starter
This was the first "advanced" troubleshooting step that I made.
03-07-19, 08:43 AM
#15
glorified 5954
Thread Starter
OK so now I will check the following:
1) Make sure cable housing is correct and compression less brake housing. (never heard of this till now)
2) ensure that the cable is fed into the RD fastening bolt correctly.
3) exchange hard plastic ferrules with metal ones.
1) Make sure cable housing is correct and compression less brake housing. (never heard of this till now)
2) ensure that the cable is fed into the RD fastening bolt correctly.
3) exchange hard plastic ferrules with metal ones.
03-07-19, 09:05 AM
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You might also blow out your shifter with WD40 in copious amounts, followed by compressed air, and repeat until squeaky clean inside. A speck of sand or a few caused me a similar issue. The tolerances are tight inside shifters.
03-07-19, 10:10 AM
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Replacing the rubbish factory cables with the Shimano OptiSlick SP41 cables and housings and paying careful attention to routing fixed it completely. The cables for the 6800 are probably better again.
03-07-19, 11:20 AM
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Another tip I use on my 6800 set on the Habanero is to buy roll of ot-41sp Shimano shifter housing.
Then buy a gross of Wheels Manufacturing brass 4mm ferrules. I got them for $45 and can have enough for years of changes. Then get the good die-drawn stainless steel cables you don’t even need the polymer coated. If you buy the dura ace polymer set of shifter/housing replacement you will get all the proper ferrules including the alloy/brass that is critical to go into the rear shifter loop. This gives the stability for precise shifting. At any stop on frame then use the brass ferrules you got in bulk not nylon. Doing this you probably will only ever need to replace rear loop and housing along with a new cable. The wrap and cable under bars can last a long time. Buy housing in bulk and sets of cable are the way to go. Spending a bit to shift flawlessly is a non brainer.
Then buy a gross of Wheels Manufacturing brass 4mm ferrules. I got them for $45 and can have enough for years of changes. Then get the good die-drawn stainless steel cables you don’t even need the polymer coated. If you buy the dura ace polymer set of shifter/housing replacement you will get all the proper ferrules including the alloy/brass that is critical to go into the rear shifter loop. This gives the stability for precise shifting. At any stop on frame then use the brass ferrules you got in bulk not nylon. Doing this you probably will only ever need to replace rear loop and housing along with a new cable. The wrap and cable under bars can last a long time. Buy housing in bulk and sets of cable are the way to go. Spending a bit to shift flawlessly is a non brainer.
03-10-19, 02:39 PM
#19
glorified 5954
Thread Starter
Today I installed the 11 speed shifter, RD and chain but before doing so and with all of your comments in mind, took a very detailed look at the current setup.
I found nothing incorrect about the cable routing. Only one small issue was that the shifter ferrule was nylon but I do not believe that this was causing any of the shifting issues. All other ferrules were aluminum.
When I installed the 11 speed components, I reused all cables, housing and ferrules except the shifter one. For that, I used the nylon ferrule which Shimano included with the new shifter.
The new shifting has zero issues. RD setup was also a breeze. It accepted the 30-39-52 crank and 11-28 cassette with only a little pre-tension tweak from the b-screw being required.
The shifting is now perfect (finally) and I can't wait to take her for a spin.
Thank you all for your comments and helpfulness. Regretfully, I still don't know where the problem was exactly... Maybe in the future I will narrow it down.
Before 11 speed install (system as it was with bad shifting):
I found nothing incorrect about the cable routing. Only one small issue was that the shifter ferrule was nylon but I do not believe that this was causing any of the shifting issues. All other ferrules were aluminum.
When I installed the 11 speed components, I reused all cables, housing and ferrules except the shifter one. For that, I used the nylon ferrule which Shimano included with the new shifter.
The new shifting has zero issues. RD setup was also a breeze. It accepted the 30-39-52 crank and 11-28 cassette with only a little pre-tension tweak from the b-screw being required.
The shifting is now perfect (finally) and I can't wait to take her for a spin.
Thank you all for your comments and helpfulness. Regretfully, I still don't know where the problem was exactly... Maybe in the future I will narrow it down.
Before 11 speed install (system as it was with bad shifting):
03-11-19, 01:12 PM
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Well, you got it figured out, that's the important part.
Cheers to many happy miles!
Cheers to many happy miles!
03-11-19, 02:13 PM
#22
glorified 5954
Thread Starter
Or Kilometers for that matter! 
Sometime soon I will measure the cable throw coming directly out of the shifter and post the results. I expect it to be just as bad as before. If this is the case, I will clean the shifter with WD40 and compressed air. Maybe even an overnight dunk in the solvent bath before re-lubing. We'll see how it goes.
Sometime soon I will measure the cable throw coming directly out of the shifter and post the results. I expect it to be just as bad as before. If this is the case, I will clean the shifter with WD40 and compressed air. Maybe even an overnight dunk in the solvent bath before re-lubing. We'll see how it goes.
03-11-19, 11:14 PM
#23
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Just have to mention that your bike is really nice. Just incredible. Hope you get it all tuned in to your liking. Sounds like you're on your way.
As we say in America.... Keep it under a hundred.(100mph)
As we say in America.... Keep it under a hundred.(100mph)
03-12-19, 12:26 PM
#24
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03-12-19, 04:57 PM
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The cable housing in your 6th picture appears to be in horrible shape. The plastic casing appears to be badly chipped up and the longitudinal strands are protruding from the plastic allowing individual strands to wedge themselves between the cable and the ferrule, creating all sorts of random shifting problems. I would suggest checking all the cut ends of you shifter housing for nice straight cuts with no protruding wires, or your problems may return sooner than you wish.
Brent
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