patentcad

If you've experienced chrondomalacia, I could use your input, I think I have a spot of it in my right knee. Symptoms seem consistent with chrondo, could be patellar tedonitis, maybe a bit of both. I'm taking a couple of days off, taking anti-inflammatory drugs (meloxicam, 15 mg daily). From my research it would appear the cycling is therapeutic - as long as you raise your saddle high and go easy (i.e. no steep hills). That's my plan. Start phasing in riding on flatter terrain, maybe 20-25 miles tomorrow, little ring, nothing steeper than 5% or so (there's hills of some type EVERYWHERE around here). That will mean no climbing Mt. Doom for a week or more, but that's OK.

Any input/experiences/links to informative websites appreciated. I have an appointment to be evaluated by my long time ortho guy/knee surgeon Thursday night.

Turd Ferguson

I have the same problem, in particular a patella tracking issue which causes my left thigh to be weaker than the left along with some pain. I only really have problems when I've been off the bike and the muscles have atrophied. Riding/Training has helped the problem as it strengthens the muscles surrounding my kneecap.

Xrays and Ultrasounds have shown premature wear. The othopedic doctor advised me to keep riding, stay in the saddle, and avoid running. Swimming is also good exercise.

I use a Patella knee strap (straps on just below the knee), when I experience discomfort. It greatly reduces discomfort and allows the muscles and knee cap to function properly.

patentcad

My issues seem to be overuse from too much cycling/hills/not enough rest days.

banerjek

I struggled with knee issues for years, including some with symptoms associated with chrondomalacia or patellar tedonitis.

In all cases, I have found problems were significantly aggravated by riding when fatigued or pushing myself especially hard. Once you get the grinding in your knees and the pain in the kneecaps, it takes some time to go away. At least in my case, it was not necessary to stop riding entirely.

Just ride lighter until it gets better. Once things heal, don't push quite so hard so often. The downside is that it will make you a little slower, which stinks if you race. However, riding 0.5 mph slower on your normal ride makes a HUGE difference in pain. Even shaving a couple tenths will feel noticeably better and reduce repeat occurrences.

The anti-inflamitories help, but you might need to lower your gearing if you can't lick this in a few months. 39/25 on a 17% grade is going to aggravate the hell out of your knees unless the steep section is tiny.

patentcad

Is 250 meters tiny? That's the length of the longer 15%+ section of Mt. Doom. It doesn't feel so tiny. I can favor my left side on the easier grades, but once you're over 10-12% it's hard to fake it.

Ouch.

clausen

https://www.cptips.com/knee.htm

From my experience I raised my climbing cadense by 5 and it hasn't reapeared. If I know there is going to be some steep climbs. I use a larger cassette for the ride 13-26 vs 12-23.

Try recovery rides I do 2 a week and a easy week every forth week, they've helped me allot this year. 2 days completely off the bike since mid May and I'm riding better than ever.

banerjek

That's a decent length for such a grade, and there's no way to go easy on that. I presume that the road leading up to the 15%+ section is also no joke. Have you considered a compact with a 12/27? That will provide significant relief, though 15%+ is never a picnic. On race day, you can pop in a cassette appropriate for conditions.

If you have relatively steep hills everywhere, you'll tend to be using the top and bottom of your ranges so the compact can be useful. On the other hand, if most of your riding is on the 5% rollers you mentioned earlier, the 34 will seem way too low.

A little trainer action during the healing process might not be a bad idea since you get better control over your effort and Mt Doom will definitely slow things down. Be careful with docs. They tend to play a conservative game and will quickly sideline you. The trick is to figure out what you can get away with while you improve to an acceptable level.

Ex Pres 

Here's a web site recommending Gelatin for inflammation:
https://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/health/jointpain.html

I know BFers think I'm crazy, but many times inflammation can be reduced by taking gelatin. It worked for my knees; and the therapy was recommended to me by another cyclist for whom it worked, too.

Buy it by the canister (Knox NutraJoint) in the supplement aisle at xMart, chain drug stores, or you can just do a Knox packet a day from the confectionary/baking aisle in your grocery store.

Gelatin has been studied at Harvard in arthritic patients.

Hunt-man

I'm recovering from that now. Currently doing some physical therapy and that has helped. The PT used some tools on my tendons around the knee cap and said go ride, easy. It was better. Also he has me working in the gym strengthening my gluts and legs, but mainly gluts. He says that will help too. I took a bunch of time off and hit the naproxin twice a day but don't need it anymore.

My problems were brought on by getting a "bike fit"; changed my saddle, KOPS and put orthodics and insoles in my shoes. No good so fast. I went back to what worked and I'm recovering slowly. F'd up my training bad. So take you time and don't hurt yourself. $.02

Mose

Do you do any other lower body exercise aside from cycling? Is that a dumb question?

What do you do as far as stretching? Do you do any type of self myofascial release? Get a foam roller if you don't and use it regularly.

If all you do is cycling there is a very good chance you've got muscle imbalances. Depending on what your ortho guy says, I'd ask for a physical therapy referal. And ask around to find a really good PT, one that has experience with sports injuries of this type is obviously the best... I discovered through personal experience that an ortho can tell you what is wrong, they won't necessarily be able to determine why.

A competent PT will often be better equiped to diagnose and treat any underlying weaknesses/imbalances that lead to overuse injuries in the first place.

procrit

Watch your knees when you spin. Do they go straight up then straight down? Are both knees about the same distance away from the top tube when you pedal? Do you feel like you have to physically keep your legs pedaling in a straight motion?

If not, you may need some wedges under your shoes. I suffered horrible patellar pain until I figured this out. I could rest an entire week, get back on the bike, and within an hour or two of riding, the pain was back, and what worse, the searing pain stuck with me during the day.

Once I got my knee tracking properly, cycling worked wonders on my left knee and it healed up quickly.

wanders

At first I thought BJ was going to recommend a recumbent.

I have issues with my left knee (as of yet undiagnosed). Coming down stairs tells me if I need rest, IB, a higher cadence, or all of the above. As mentioned above, stretching helps alot and fish oil provides the placebo effect I need.

Bob Ross

I was diagnosed with chrondromalacia patella in both knees years before I started cycling "seriously" ...in fact, cycling turned out to be the only athletic activity I could do; anything involving side-to-side torquing of the knees (eg, basketball, soccer, skating) wreaks havoc. I made sure I got cleats/pedals with plenty of float, and for the most part I can ride fine. I can even mash up hills in a big gear, I just have to be prepared to apply ice & Ibuprofin liberally afterwards.

To make matters worse, I got a minor tear in my ACL last year. My orthopedist prescribed PT; after 6 weeks of that I was still in pain, so she prescribed 6 more weeks of PT, with a couple options: if I was still in pain after that, she could continue prescribing PT indefinitely; she could inject my knee with a mixture of lydocaine and steroids; she could perform arthroscopic surgery to repair the tear (and, while in there, clean out the crepetis or whatever the byproduct of chrondromalacia is called; or I could just HTFU.

After 12 weeks of PT I was sick of seeing doctors & dealing with insurance companies, so I chose option #4.

And wouldn't ya know it, now 6 months after the PT ended I realize that I'm back to cycling more or less pain-free!


check out this website: https://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a...letproof_knees
Nothing revolutionary, but some good common sense.

patentcad

I would give up cycling before I'd ride a recumbent. Seriously.

banerjek

I would not recommend bents as a way to deal with pain though many people ride bents specifically for this reason. My opinion is that using bents as a way to relieve pain only makes sense if you have medical conditions that just happen to be aggravated by traditional geometry or totally lack conditioning. If I'm out for 10+ hrs, I find a road bike much more comfortable than a bent.

My experience is that it is much easier to use different seating positions and muscle sets on a traditional road bike. Also, you have much more flexibility in where you place your hands and how you weight your arms. If I had severe knee pain, I'd be sticking with my uprights and avoiding my bents for awhile.

The main reason I ride bents is I just like to do different kinds of riding and work different muscle sets. Though I'd be lying if I said I didn't love dropping road weenies on climbs. Even if I don't succeed, simply making them work hard annoys them enough.

patentcad

If you made me work hard on a climb with your recumbent, I would also give up the sport.

patentcad

I might give up the sport just so I could have a comeback and blog about it on BF.

Creakyknees

have had it for years, result of a broken kneecap.

- fish oil (glucosamine / chondroitin never did anything for me)
- spin spin spin
- oddly, strength work seems to help but it has to be the kind that doesn't aggravate the pain.

patentcad

My knees aren't creaky yet. But they're getting there.

Creakyknees

yeah my kids call me "snap crackle pop"

and they laugh in a way that makes me think they aren't "laughing with me."

patentcad

Really hurts walking down stairs. Can't walk down the stairs without pain under the kneecap. I do believe that is classic chrondo symptomology.

Mose

Do you stretch your IT band regularly or at all?

patentcad

What's 'stretching'?

banerjek

But then what would you blog about on BF? The forums would just wither. And there are no bragging rights for dropping senior citizens. I might have to find other people to torment.

HOOD

As a podiatrist specialising in sports med.

Try specialised shoes as that will change the q angle
raise your saddle
spin more
Strengthen your vastus medialis with leg raises ect
realise that you are an old fart