"All cyclists will need to fit detection beacons, says cycle industry boss"
03-26-18, 06:17 PM
#26
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I don't see it as any different than running taillights day and night. A "detection beacon" could actually be fully passive, like a corner reflector, but I'd be down with putting on a beacon too. All it would be would be a modulated LED. Could be part of a normal taillight, which are already modulated (that's how they dim).
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03-26-18, 06:23 PM
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It sounds like they are talking about a concept that is already being deployed in aviation: ADS-B
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automa...0%93_broadcast
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automa...0%93_broadcast
03-26-18, 06:32 PM
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AV's should be able to sense people on or off bikes.
03-27-18, 06:07 AM
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There's no reason at all that a normal taillight can't modulate a digital signal for this purpose. Taillights already are modulated, that's how they are dimmed. putting a pattern into the modulation should cost exactly nothing and cause the batteries to die exactly no faster.
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03-27-18, 06:09 AM
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I wouldn't favor making such devices mandatory, but if I live long enough for such a beacon to be practical I'd use one.
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03-27-18, 06:16 AM
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I don't want an extra device to keep charged and worry about. If it's passive, cheap, and lightweight (like a reflector), then I'd get one for extra safety. But the onus shouldn't be on me to buy stuff to address shortcomings in AV technology.
AV's should be able to sense people on or off bikes.
AV's should be able to sense people on or off bikes.
Like I posted earlier, I believe the on bike devise should be simple like the Dero ZAP - it's a simple sensor on your spokes, no need to charge them.
Here's a promo video showing the tech:
*edit/afterthought/footnote - It's not a big deal for somebody like me (a tech-geek with disposable income) to get one more device, but think about the large number of people that bike for economic reasons, who's going to pay for the sensors to be added to their bikes? Are those people simply disposable in our brave new world?
Last edited by Hypno Toad; 03-27-18 at 06:33 AM.
03-27-18, 06:18 AM
#32
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https://www.autoblog.com/2018/03/26/...al-uber-crash/
Interesting quote in the blame-storm:
.... clarifying a lidar array's role in the driving task; namely, that even when the lasers detect an object, "it is up to the rest of the system to interpret and use the data to make decisions. We do not know how the Uber system of decision-making works." If Uber's software doesn't process the data properly, then it doesn't matter what the lasers register.
Last edited by Hypno Toad; 03-27-18 at 06:27 AM.
03-27-18, 07:55 AM
#33
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What else do we put these devices on? Kid's bikes? Mobility scooters? Push chairs? Skips? Traffic cones? Cat/dog collars? Sheep...?
Is it not right that any moving vehicle should be able to prevent hitting a universal object in it's path..? That's what cars have drivers for - if you are going to remove the driver, the car will have to be able to execute that same function regardless of what that universal object is.
Is it not right that any moving vehicle should be able to prevent hitting a universal object in it's path..? That's what cars have drivers for - if you are going to remove the driver, the car will have to be able to execute that same function regardless of what that universal object is.
03-27-18, 09:14 AM
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There's no reason at all that a normal taillight can't modulate a digital signal for this purpose. Taillights already are modulated, that's how they are dimmed. putting a pattern into the modulation should cost exactly nothing and cause the batteries to die exactly no faster.
And if the signal is via normal taillight wavelength light, why does it need to be modulated? Shouldn't the car simply avoid hitting any light source?
03-27-18, 09:15 AM
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I do agree, the person on bike should not have to take any onus for this tech - Car companies and companies that want to have driver-less cars need to fund these devices if that's gonna be a thing.*
Like I posted earlier, I believe the on bike devise should be simple like the Dero ZAP - it's a simple sensor on your spokes, no need to charge them.
Here's a promo video showing the tech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=XcqBJf7pH2c
*edit/afterthought/footnote - It's not a big deal for somebody like me (a tech-geek with disposable income) to get one more device, but think about the large number of people that bike for economic reasons, who's going to pay for the sensors to be added to their bikes? Are those people simply disposable in our brave new world?
Like I posted earlier, I believe the on bike devise should be simple like the Dero ZAP - it's a simple sensor on your spokes, no need to charge them.
Here's a promo video showing the tech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=XcqBJf7pH2c
*edit/afterthought/footnote - It's not a big deal for somebody like me (a tech-geek with disposable income) to get one more device, but think about the large number of people that bike for economic reasons, who's going to pay for the sensors to be added to their bikes? Are those people simply disposable in our brave new world?
03-27-18, 09:19 AM
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My reaction can be summarized as "B.S."
Long version, including the reactions of many others -- this is just another variation of the invented "jaywalking" laws that shifted the burden from driver responsibility and liability to regarding pedestrians and cyclists as disposable, expendable and collateral damage in the greater interest of ensuring motorists and motor vehicles aren't inconvenienced.
Long version, including the reactions of many others -- this is just another variation of the invented "jaywalking" laws that shifted the burden from driver responsibility and liability to regarding pedestrians and cyclists as disposable, expendable and collateral damage in the greater interest of ensuring motorists and motor vehicles aren't inconvenienced.
03-27-18, 09:20 AM
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You got me to look deeper on the subject - thanks
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/03/26/...al-uber-crash/
Interesting quote in the blame-storm:
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/03/26/...al-uber-crash/
Interesting quote in the blame-storm:
A poster who says he has experience with the systems, answered:
Since LIDAR is infrared, which is adjacent to the visible spectrum, reflectivity is similar to visible light, so black clothing will cause the detection range to drop to 10-30% of white clothing.
03-27-18, 09:26 AM
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In the future, if automated cars become ubiquitous, then I would consider a beacon if the car manufacturers made them absolutely free to cyclists. I definitely should not have to pay to make their vehicles safer on the road. I currently do everything I can to make myself safer on the road from human drivers (hi vis stuff, lights, helmet, etc.). Yes, I pay for that myself. But that stuff makes me more visible to other cyclists and pedestrians as well. This beacon will serve one purpose only so the car manufacturers can pay for it. I'll just have to remember to remove it before I ride my bike out to rob a bank so they can't track me during the getaway, lol.
03-27-18, 10:12 AM
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03-27-18, 10:28 AM
#40
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The drawback is that RFID can only respond to a query with an announcement that it is present, (with its hardcoded ID), but cannot tell where it is. As opposed to ADS-B Out which can provide its exact GPS coordinates. Of course ADS-B would require a power source in order to constantly process its GPS location. I'm not sure telling the AV's onboard computer that "there is a cyclist somewhere" would be of any help.
03-27-18, 10:39 AM
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I can believe that the RFID scanner could add it's own location/speed/etc to a scan.
But I can't imagine how a passive device could originate it.
ETA Some googling turns up Active RFID which is powered RFID device, but were are back to something that requires a battery or an electrical system on the object being tracked.
Last edited by Shimagnolo; 03-27-18 at 10:45 AM.
03-27-18, 10:45 AM
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I still want another 1972 Plymouth Duster, no matter how bad the Slant Six sucks gas vs. a Prius.
Ummmm ..... Actually, the beacon is to identify cyclists to AV cars. Communication is with the car, not the driver.
As a rule, it doesn't hurt to read the cited article to actually know what one is talking about Before starting to talk.
I quote:
It is the goal of the “connected car” industry to make cyclists use sensors or beacons so they can be detected more easily. (Such sensors could be passive transponders or, even easier, signals from a smartphone.) Currently, "erratic" cyclists are hard to detect by autonomous vehicles. And pedestrians, too, are often not spotted by a plethora of detection devices on even the most tricked-out "driverless cars". (emphasis added, to make the point clear to the reading-averse.)
As a rule, it doesn't hurt to read the cited article to actually know what one is talking about Before starting to talk.
I quote:
It is the goal of the “connected car” industry to make cyclists use sensors or beacons so they can be detected more easily. (Such sensors could be passive transponders or, even easier, signals from a smartphone.) Currently, "erratic" cyclists are hard to detect by autonomous vehicles. And pedestrians, too, are often not spotted by a plethora of detection devices on even the most tricked-out "driverless cars". (emphasis added, to make the point clear to the reading-averse.)
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03-27-18, 10:52 AM
#43
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I'd love to see an explanation of how a passive device could provide that.
I can believe that the RFID scanner could add it's own location/speed/etc to a scan.
But I can't imagine how a passive device could originate it.
ETA Some googling turns up Active RFID which is powered RFID device, but were are back to something that requires a battery or an electrical system on the object being tracked.
I can believe that the RFID scanner could add it's own location/speed/etc to a scan.
But I can't imagine how a passive device could originate it.
ETA Some googling turns up Active RFID which is powered RFID device, but were are back to something that requires a battery or an electrical system on the object being tracked.
03-27-18, 10:54 AM
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It'll just freak out the shoplifting alarms at Walmart, no doubt.
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03-27-18, 10:55 AM
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Like I posted earlier, I believe the on bike devise should be simple like the Dero ZAP - it's a simple sensor on your spokes, no need to charge them.
Here's a promo video showing the tech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=XcqBJf7pH2c
Here's a promo video showing the tech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=XcqBJf7pH2c
03-27-18, 10:56 AM
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Do you think A Clockwork Orange isn't far behind this?
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03-27-18, 10:58 AM
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Dero is based in Minneapolis, and partnered with the U of MN to develop the system. I don't honestly see this becoming a huge success with wide adoption, but it's here in Minneapolis and successful.
03-27-18, 11:24 AM
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03-27-18, 11:31 AM
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This just showed up on my face book feed: Uber Disabled Volvo SUV's Safety System Before Fatality https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...efore-fatality
