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Weight training plus cycling - what's the right combo? days on, days off etc

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Weight training plus cycling - what's the right combo? days on, days off etc

Old 08-18-19, 09:45 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by gregf83
I think the point was there is value in specificity of training. If you want to improve your sprint on the bike you’re probably better off spending your time sprinting on the bike than in the gym. If you’re a pro or retired with unlimited time available then there could be value in augmenting on the bike training with gym work but for most time restricted athletes working on the bike is probably a more efficient use of time provided you are ‘working’ on the bike and not just riding around.

Intersting article: Comparison of short-sprint and heavy strength training on cycling performance
HST is great for the standing start where one needs max force at zero speed. Craig Maclean may have been the best leadoff man in team sprint anchored by Hoy. Note the other two riders have the banking to assist accelerating their bike whereas the starter is in the start gate and not much banking to use to get the bike rolling from zero. I suspect these guys are in 108 gear inches or more.

Track sprinters are generally 50/50 between the weight room and the track. I like strength training on the bike and use standing starts, seated starts, flying and seated jumps and other sprints such as flying 100, 125 and 150 meters. I do some leg strength in the gym but generally add box jumps after lifting so that the muscles get popped by the fast motion of the jump and therefor learn to relax fast after contraction.

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Old 08-18-19, 02:03 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
Oh c'mon Greg. That study shows you don't get better at riding your bike if you don't ride your bike. The gentle reader might want to search for Forstemann on youtube and see how an Olympic gold medalist trained. Or watch Peter Sagan work out in the gym. Here's a good article from Sagan's coach: Peter Sagan shows how he boosts his power with gym work | Cyclingnews.com
No, the study shows that short sprints are more effective then heavy strength training that's all. Heavy strength training is better than strictly low intensity riding but it's not clear it's any better (and in this study it's worse) than sprinting on the bike.

Forstemann's training is not really applicable to non-track cyclists who don't need to do standing starts from 0 RPM. And Peter falls into the pro cyclist category training 1000+ hrs on the bike per year. Once I reaches 1000+ hrs in a year I'll start adding in gym work
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Old 08-18-19, 02:05 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Hermes
HST is great for the standing start where one needs max force at zero speed.
100% agree with that. Track sprinters probably don't spend many hours on the bike compared to a road cyclist.
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Old 08-18-19, 03:29 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by gregf83
No, the study shows that short sprints are more effective then heavy strength training that's all. Heavy strength training is better than strictly low intensity riding but it's not clear it's any better (and in this study it's worse) than sprinting on the bike.

Not quite. From the abstract:


"After a 4-weeks preparation strength-training period, the participants were randomized to add either HST or SST to their usual endurance training for the subsequent 6 weeks."


We don't know if the heavy strength training group did any sort of speed work at all, but it would seem that the groups did only endurance work and either weights or sprints for the last six weeks. In any case, both groups did strength training for the first four weeks. I wonder how the results would have differed if the group that did short-sprint training had not hit the gym first.


Peter falls into the pro cyclist category training 1000+ hrs on the bike per year. Once I reaches 1000+ hrs in a year I'll start adding in gym work

You don't have to be a pro to benefit from strength training. I'd argue that anyone who ever pins on a number should give lifting a try.
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Old 08-19-19, 10:43 AM
  #55  
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Every cyclist who is also a human will benefit from strength training. For basic health reasons, and to counter the damage road cycling does to our bone density.
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Old 08-21-19, 08:47 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by seattle forrest
every cyclist who is also a human will benefit from strength training. For basic health reasons, and to counter the damage road cycling does to our bone density.
+1
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Old 08-21-19, 04:43 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
Every cyclist who is also a human will benefit from strength training. For basic health reasons, and to counter the damage road cycling does to our bone density.
For me it's also about maintaining a reasonable amount of upper body strength, speed, explosive power and work capacity.
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Old 08-21-19, 05:15 PM
  #58  
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Weight training is awesome because it increases strength, endurance, and over-all health, plus it produces a natural high that makes me happy! A great balance is weight lifting 3x/week, but not two days in a row. Nutrition is important: protein 30 minutes or less before and after a workout keeps me focused and repairs muscle. And balance carbs, fat and protein throughout the day according to age, sex and height. Biking is an excellent cardio exercise that can be done daily, even on weight lifting days. I prefer heavy biking one day, heavy weight lifting mixed with moderate biking the following day, repeat twice, and then take a day off to rest.
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Old 08-21-19, 09:25 PM
  #59  
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As others have said there are many different options and you just have to find what works best for you.
Just riding more miles is not necessarily going to help. After a while they just become junk miles so you need balance in your program.
What I've added in the past year has made more of a difference then anything else I've done over the last 10 years.
Added spin classes, weekly over the winter and then a couple a month during riding season. Definitely helped my hill climbing. During training rides I've eliminated as much as possible using my small front ring.
Makes you work harder but it definitely pays off. My average ride is 54 miles with 2,950 feet in elevation. The biggest single difference for me is when I started using the Glute machine 3 months ago. Not every gym has one but great for building strength and endurance as long as you make sure you doing enough reps to give your legs a good workout. And of course don't forget your core.
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Old 08-22-19, 12:08 AM
  #60  
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Lifting legs three times per week is a bit too much for me to recover from; tried it a few years back and I couldn't put much quality into my rides. Currently, I'm hitting the big lifts on Sunday and Wednesday and the rest of the week is bike focused with Monday as a total rest day. Sunday: squat, press, deadlift, accessory lifts, and core. Wednesday: squat, bench, power clean, pullups, and core. I also do core work at home a couple of extra days per week. The challenge will be maintaining linear progress on my squat with such a relatively low volume.
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Old 08-22-19, 08:28 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by McNamara
Lifting legs three times per week is a bit too much for me to recover from; tried it a few years back and I couldn't put much quality into my rides. Currently, I'm hitting the big lifts on Sunday and Wednesday and the rest of the week is bike focused with Monday as a total rest day. Sunday: squat, press, deadlift, accessory lifts, and core. Wednesday: squat, bench, power clean, pullups, and core. I also do core work at home a couple of extra days per week. The challenge will be maintaining linear progress on my squat with such a relatively low volume.
Twice a week works for me. I periodize my lifting. This is Fall for me - my hard riding is over and I'm taking some time away from the bike, doing other things. I'm lifting twice a week but only "doing legs" once a week. However I find that everything in the gym does legs. My legs are tired after an upper body workout because legs are always in a supporting role with free weights. This is just conditioning for me now, fighting sarcopenia and generally trying not to to be a weak geezer. In January I'll start doing legs twice a week, getting more sport-specific. I find I can make progress at twice a week just fine. hold current 1RM levels at once a week.

I did a whole why-and-how thread on this a few years ago: https://www.bikeforums.net/training-...e-athlete.html
I'm still doing those same workouts - haven't found anything better, although I must say that doing Friel's Training Bible AA workouts from October to May, 3 sets of 30 of 7-9 lifts, to failure, circuit style, gives excellent results. Takes more time though and circuit work means an almost empty gym. I've attached a how-to I created from the Training Bible.

Every gym day, immediately before I lift I either ride for an hour, do 30' on the StepMill, or go for a 2 mile run. My usual schedule has been to lift on Tuesday and Thursday, so Monday recovery ride, Tuesday rollers and lift, Wednesday ride, Thursday rollers and lift, usually Friday and Saturday off, Sunday hard group ride, 40-70 miles. I get most of my intensity on Sunday, 45' to 1 hour in Z4, lots of zone 3, less zone 2, no zone 1 at all - well, maybe 2'. "If I can still walk, I could have gone harder" is the motto.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
STRENGTH_AA.pdf (39.6 KB, 6 views)
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Old 08-22-19, 08:32 AM
  #62  
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have not read any studies or posts so apologies if this has been said.

You must experiment with what works for you (just like the "what's the best thing to eat topic". Everyone is different

Different lifts, sets, reps, etc.

Me personally, I would concentrate on upper body lifts. If you ride enough your legs should be good to go
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Old 08-22-19, 09:40 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider
have not read any studies or posts so apologies if this has been said.

You must experiment with what works for you (just like the "what's the best thing to eat topic". Everyone is different

Different lifts, sets, reps, etc.

Me personally, I would concentrate on upper body lifts. If you ride enough your legs should be good to go
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/8bd...a7e789cf78.pdf
https://sportsandscience.de/wp-conten...-und-Kraft.pdf
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Old 08-22-19, 10:01 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider
have not read any studies or posts so apologies if this has been said.

You must experiment with what works for you (just like the "what's the best thing to eat topic". Everyone is different

Different lifts, sets, reps, etc.

Me personally, I would concentrate on upper body lifts. If you ride enough your legs should be good to go
Yes, everyone has different needs. Currently I can bench more than I can squat. That's totally backwards. Hence, I train my legs much harder in the gym than my upper body. Riding alone won't cut it for me, unless I wanted to keep being a piss poor sprinter.
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Old 08-23-19, 11:55 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by gregf83
I think the point was there is value in specificity of training.
Of course specificity is needed. My point was, this specificity doesn't have to be achieved in the weight room.
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