Can a better bike improve results?
07-22-19, 07:02 AM
#26
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16mph solo on an entry level bike is probably more watts than 21 in a group on a nice bike.
Sounds like time to work on your group riding.
Try to minimize gaps they create on hills and corners. Don't take a turn pulling the first ride or two, just sit in. Ride closer than you want to.
If you want to get that serious feeling without spending money, shave your legs.
Sounds like time to work on your group riding.
Try to minimize gaps they create on hills and corners. Don't take a turn pulling the first ride or two, just sit in. Ride closer than you want to.
If you want to get that serious feeling without spending money, shave your legs.
07-22-19, 07:24 AM
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Awesome information, Jim! I'm quite certain at this point I will at least make an upgrade. Probably not to the extent that I originally was going to do, but I believe I can get more out my potential from a more efficient bike.
07-22-19, 07:36 AM
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So here is full disclosure. First, the Fuji Sportif has a giant head tube. I have the handlebars as low as they can possible go at this point. Secondly, when I purchased the bike after deciding I was indeed serious about riding and I thoroughly enjoyed it, I felt like I needed to compensate for back discomfort I have had for quite some time and I wanted a larger bike that sat me as much upright as possible while still looking like there was some aerodynamics involved. So I bought a full size too large. I just liked the feel and stability of the larger bike. So with the design of this bike being intended to be quite upright and the fact that it is one size too big, I just don't think I can get much lower than I am right now on this particular bike. I now just have to weigh the advantages of a new bike and at what point I stop getting returns on my investment. So now I'm just thinking of a more aerodynamically designed endurance bike with Shimano 105 components as opposed to my original thought of a $3500-$4500 Ultegra set up. So I would probably end up between $2000-$3000 instead.
07-22-19, 07:44 AM
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16mph solo on an entry level bike is probably more watts than 21 in a group on a nice bike.
Sounds like time to work on your group riding.
Try to minimize gaps they create on hills and corners. Don't take a turn pulling the first ride or two, just sit in. Ride closer than you want to.
If you want to get that serious feeling without spending money, shave your legs.
Sounds like time to work on your group riding.
Try to minimize gaps they create on hills and corners. Don't take a turn pulling the first ride or two, just sit in. Ride closer than you want to.
If you want to get that serious feeling without spending money, shave your legs.
There ends up being 3 to 4 different pace groups within our rides. I'm usually in the 2nd to 3rd group. The first group is significantly better on the hills so that is initially where they leave me and us and contact is lost there. After that first group who is moving at an average of 20-22 mph, the pace varies from about 14-17 mph in the following groups. I'm fine with group riding at my pace, say 15-17 mph, and I enjoy it. I was just curious if my potential might be slightly hampered by a bike that won't let me push a little more out of it. But being realistic, I know a really quality rider could easily push my bike much further. (I think maybe I just want a new bike
)
07-22-19, 08:07 AM
#31
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I took a long hiatus from riding. A few years ago I found a rusting Peugeot in the alley. I fixed it and repainted it and it actually worked pretty well.
It was 25lbs but seemed smooth and kinda fun. I was shocked that after a 25 mile ride I'd end up on the couch for two hours with that long day feeling all over.
I was struggling to keep up with my wife on an entry level Motobecane, and she rides once a year.
I got fed up and I bought the bike of my dreams (mid 2000s lugged steel, full Campy, Bayliss geometry). It rides like I'm getting chased by the entire pro peloton. It makes me want to ride more. It makes eat better and drink less. It's added more than 4mph to my average. It's got me riding hard again. It's got me psyched.
So yeah, I think a new bike can help. Maybe not on the first ride buy if it keeps you coming back for more, it's worth it. Just make damn sure it fits.
It was 25lbs but seemed smooth and kinda fun. I was shocked that after a 25 mile ride I'd end up on the couch for two hours with that long day feeling all over.
I was struggling to keep up with my wife on an entry level Motobecane, and she rides once a year.
I got fed up and I bought the bike of my dreams (mid 2000s lugged steel, full Campy, Bayliss geometry). It rides like I'm getting chased by the entire pro peloton. It makes me want to ride more. It makes eat better and drink less. It's added more than 4mph to my average. It's got me riding hard again. It's got me psyched.
So yeah, I think a new bike can help. Maybe not on the first ride buy if it keeps you coming back for more, it's worth it. Just make damn sure it fits.
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07-22-19, 08:44 AM
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I took a long hiatus from riding. A few years ago I found a rusting Peugeot in the alley. I fixed it and repainted it and it actually worked pretty well.
It was 25lbs but seemed smooth and kinda fun. I was shocked that after a 25 mile ride I'd end up on the couch for two hours with that long day feeling all over.
I was struggling to keep up with my wife on an entry level Motobecane, and she rides once a year.
I got fed up and I bought the bike of my dreams (mid 2000s lugged steel, full Campy, Bayliss geometry). It rides like I'm getting chased by the entire pro peloton. It makes me want to ride more. It makes eat better and drink less. It's added more than 4mph to my average. It's got me riding hard again. It's got me psyched.
So yeah, I think a new bike can help. Maybe not on the first ride buy if it keeps you coming back for more, it's worth it. Just make damn sure it fits.
It was 25lbs but seemed smooth and kinda fun. I was shocked that after a 25 mile ride I'd end up on the couch for two hours with that long day feeling all over.
I was struggling to keep up with my wife on an entry level Motobecane, and she rides once a year.
I got fed up and I bought the bike of my dreams (mid 2000s lugged steel, full Campy, Bayliss geometry). It rides like I'm getting chased by the entire pro peloton. It makes me want to ride more. It makes eat better and drink less. It's added more than 4mph to my average. It's got me riding hard again. It's got me psyched.
So yeah, I think a new bike can help. Maybe not on the first ride buy if it keeps you coming back for more, it's worth it. Just make damn sure it fits.
That's freakin awesome! I do think motivation is a contributing factor and mentally if one believes a bike is faster, many times it will be so!
07-22-19, 09:38 AM
#33
Banned.
You will ride like the wind and pass everyone on the road with a new bike! For about a week. Then the halo effect will end and reality will be back.
Seriously though, If a new bike spikes your motivation and causes you to ride more or train harder/smarter or just plain feels better then why not? The flow chart above says it all.
Life is scary short!
Seriously though, If a new bike spikes your motivation and causes you to ride more or train harder/smarter or just plain feels better then why not? The flow chart above says it all.
Life is scary short!
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07-22-19, 12:58 PM
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Lots of good advice here. But to break it down even further - there is a limited amount of improvement that you can get from a better bike, but there are, realistically, only a few areas you can improve: fit/position, rolling drag (tires/tubes and hub bearings), and weight... and I believe they are in that order of importance: 1. Make sure you have optimized your fit and position on the bike; 2. Ensure your bearings (hubs and bottom bracket) are smooth and free rolling and have no play, and that you have good quality tires with a light, supple casing; 3. If you need to replace something, consider a lighter version of the same part... but don't obsess over it as weight makes less of a difference than the other two, unless you have maximised performance in every other area and are at or below your ideal body weight.
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07-22-19, 01:08 PM
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You will if it makes you get out and ride more, and you can absolutely go from 16mph solo to 20mph solo as long as you train correctly.
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07-22-19, 01:22 PM
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You "might" be able to buy 10% tempo or cruising power for about $120 if you currently have mediocre tires.
GP5000's and latex are probably 20w faster for a pair than generic road tires with butyl.
20w divided by cruising at 200w tempo is 10%. Hard to beat. Judging by the cruising speed of the OP, I'd actually guess more like 20w divided by a cruising power of maybe 150w. So closer to 15% power improvement.
But, averaging 16mph versus 21mph is light years apart. Light years.
And my 20ish mph solo loops at 75 feet per mile elevation is light years slower than pros that can do the same thing at 24mph.
Don't buy it based on that kind of data, buy it if you want it. It may make you ride more often and try more rides.
I had no business buying the bike I currently own some 3 years back. But, nowadays it fits the job just right.
GP5000's and latex are probably 20w faster for a pair than generic road tires with butyl.
20w divided by cruising at 200w tempo is 10%. Hard to beat. Judging by the cruising speed of the OP, I'd actually guess more like 20w divided by a cruising power of maybe 150w. So closer to 15% power improvement.
But, averaging 16mph versus 21mph is light years apart. Light years.
And my 20ish mph solo loops at 75 feet per mile elevation is light years slower than pros that can do the same thing at 24mph.
Don't buy it based on that kind of data, buy it if you want it. It may make you ride more often and try more rides.
I had no business buying the bike I currently own some 3 years back. But, nowadays it fits the job just right.
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07-22-19, 01:31 PM
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This is probably a super common question, so my apologies. I'll try to keep it brief. I have ridden for the better part of 2 years, road bike and some cross/gravel riding. 1500 miles in the last 12 months but increasing more recently with about 600 in the last 2 months. So I'm pretty serious and I'm working hard on myself at being a stronger and faster cyclist.
So I ride with a group that has some really great riders. I could only dream of keeping pace with them. They are finishing our rides at times at 21+ mph average while I'm at 16. It's definitely a skill level gap and I wouldn't try to make excuses that it's equipment. But that said, my question is could I potentially close the gap at all with a better bike? I currently ride a Fuji Sportif 1.5. It was great for getting started because I really benefited from the more comfortable upright position it provides. I wouldn't say it's a slow bike, but I know it's not fast. It's got Tiagra group set with disc brake and I really like it. But now that I have some experience and am in better shape, I wonder if a more aerodynamic posture as well as higher level components and a lighter frame could benefit me?
So I'm still looking at endurance bikes as opposed to full on race bikes because I still prefer a more comfortable ride without being head completely down all the time, but any bike I pick out would be a much more aero posture. I would also end up with a higher quality and lighter frame with most likely Ultegra components.
If I'm serious, able, and willing to put $2k-4k+ into a high quality bike, would you expect one in my position to benefit in the way of improving time and speed?
FYI- looking at Giant Defy Advance 1, Canyon Endurace CF SL Disc 8.0, Specialized Roubaix Comp, Bianchi Infinito CV Disc Ultegra, Cannondale Synapse Carbon Disc Ultegra
So I ride with a group that has some really great riders. I could only dream of keeping pace with them. They are finishing our rides at times at 21+ mph average while I'm at 16. It's definitely a skill level gap and I wouldn't try to make excuses that it's equipment. But that said, my question is could I potentially close the gap at all with a better bike? I currently ride a Fuji Sportif 1.5. It was great for getting started because I really benefited from the more comfortable upright position it provides. I wouldn't say it's a slow bike, but I know it's not fast. It's got Tiagra group set with disc brake and I really like it. But now that I have some experience and am in better shape, I wonder if a more aerodynamic posture as well as higher level components and a lighter frame could benefit me?
So I'm still looking at endurance bikes as opposed to full on race bikes because I still prefer a more comfortable ride without being head completely down all the time, but any bike I pick out would be a much more aero posture. I would also end up with a higher quality and lighter frame with most likely Ultegra components.
If I'm serious, able, and willing to put $2k-4k+ into a high quality bike, would you expect one in my position to benefit in the way of improving time and speed?
FYI- looking at Giant Defy Advance 1, Canyon Endurace CF SL Disc 8.0, Specialized Roubaix Comp, Bianchi Infinito CV Disc Ultegra, Cannondale Synapse Carbon Disc Ultegra
Keep going out with the A group every week and make it your goal to hang on a little longer each time. Look for strong, smooth wheels to follow. Stay out of the rotation because you're going to need to save your watts for the surges and hills. When it gets hard, tell yourself that it's hard for everyone, and your goal is to hold on for 60 more seconds, no matter what. Sometimes when you're dying and about to give up, the group will let up, and you can recover. If not and you get dropped after that, sit up, take a drink, and wait for the B group to catch you. Rinse and repeat.
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07-22-19, 02:32 PM
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Best thing you can do is ride more. 600 miles in two months, coming off of only 1500 miles for a year, seems pretty low to me. Now if a new bike will help motivate you to ride more, then it's absolutely a good idea, but the bike itself won't make you that much faster, if at all. My 17lb road bike is only marginally faster than my 22lb gravel bike, in group rides the difference is even less.
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07-22-19, 02:47 PM
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This is probably a super common question, so my apologies. I'll try to keep it brief. I have ridden for the better part of 2 years, road bike and some cross/gravel riding. 1500 miles in the last 12 months but increasing more recently with about 600 in the last 2 months. So I'm pretty serious and I'm working hard on myself at being a stronger and faster cyclist.
So I ride with a group that has some really great riders. I could only dream of keeping pace with them. They are finishing our rides at times at 21+ mph average while I'm at 16. It's definitely a skill level gap and I wouldn't try to make excuses that it's equipment. But that said, my question is could I potentially close the gap at all with a better bike? I currently ride a Fuji Sportif 1.5. It was great for getting started because I really benefited from the more comfortable upright position it provides. I wouldn't say it's a slow bike, but I know it's not fast. It's got Tiagra group set with disc brake and I really like it. But now that I have some experience and am in better shape, I wonder if a more aerodynamic posture as well as higher level components and a lighter frame could benefit me?
So I'm still looking at endurance bikes as opposed to full on race bikes because I still prefer a more comfortable ride without being head completely down all the time, but any bike I pick out would be a much more aero posture. I would also end up with a higher quality and lighter frame with most likely Ultegra components.
If I'm serious, able, and willing to put $2k-4k+ into a high quality bike, would you expect one in my position to benefit in the way of improving time and speed?
FYI- looking at Giant Defy Advance 1, Canyon Endurace CF SL Disc 8.0, Specialized Roubaix Comp, Bianchi Infinito CV Disc Ultegra, Cannondale Synapse Carbon Disc Ultegra
So I ride with a group that has some really great riders. I could only dream of keeping pace with them. They are finishing our rides at times at 21+ mph average while I'm at 16. It's definitely a skill level gap and I wouldn't try to make excuses that it's equipment. But that said, my question is could I potentially close the gap at all with a better bike? I currently ride a Fuji Sportif 1.5. It was great for getting started because I really benefited from the more comfortable upright position it provides. I wouldn't say it's a slow bike, but I know it's not fast. It's got Tiagra group set with disc brake and I really like it. But now that I have some experience and am in better shape, I wonder if a more aerodynamic posture as well as higher level components and a lighter frame could benefit me?
So I'm still looking at endurance bikes as opposed to full on race bikes because I still prefer a more comfortable ride without being head completely down all the time, but any bike I pick out would be a much more aero posture. I would also end up with a higher quality and lighter frame with most likely Ultegra components.
If I'm serious, able, and willing to put $2k-4k+ into a high quality bike, would you expect one in my position to benefit in the way of improving time and speed?
FYI- looking at Giant Defy Advance 1, Canyon Endurace CF SL Disc 8.0, Specialized Roubaix Comp, Bianchi Infinito CV Disc Ultegra, Cannondale Synapse Carbon Disc Ultegra
Ive got 18mo of bike riding under my belt, or 2200miles. the first 12 months were on a target schwinn hybird for $150. I put 1500 miles on it before upgrading to my current Giant Contend SL Disc.
My gearing on the Swhinn was 42/32 up front and 14-16-18-21-24-28 on the back.
I worked my way from 5mile rides @ 11mph to 28mile rides at 15.5 mph (on the exact same course) here is one random activity from when i just started: https://www.strava.com/activities/1733389999
When I got my Giant bike my avg speed went to 18mph and I am doing 30+ miles 2-4x per week. Here was one of my recent rides: https://www.strava.com/activities/2490016431
So yes i was getting in better and better shape, but once i got a bike with drop bars that didnt weigh 38lbs and have horrible gearing my speed and distance both increased greatly.
Good luck Sir,
JAG
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07-22-19, 03:02 PM
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Best thing you can do is ride more. 600 miles in two months, coming off of only 1500 miles for a year, seems pretty low to me. Now if a new bike will help motivate you to ride more, then it's absolutely a good idea, but the bike itself won't make you that much faster, if at all. My 17lb road bike is only marginally faster than my 22lb gravel bike, in group rides the difference is even less.
07-22-19, 03:15 PM
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Keep going out with the A group every week and make it your goal to hang on a little longer each time. Look for strong, smooth wheels to follow. Stay out of the rotation because you're going to need to save your watts for the surges and hills. When it gets hard, tell yourself that it's hard for everyone, and your goal is to hold on for 60 more seconds, no matter what. Sometimes when you're dying and about to give up, the group will let up, and you can recover. If not and you get dropped after that, sit up, take a drink, and wait for the B group to catch you. Rinse and repeat.
I absolutely love this advice! I say that because my competitive nature gets the best of me on so many of my group rides with this club. Relative to the ability of most of the riders in my club, there is a tough climb at 5 miles into our usual Tuesday route. It's a freakin chore! So my mind always tells me to keep a comfortable steady pace through the first 5 miles so I have a good bit of energy left when I approach that climb. Well, it rarely happens that way. I find myself on the rear wheels of the A group usually at about an average of 21 mph until we approach the climb and then you guessed it...I'm spent and struggling to get to the top. By the time I get up there the A group is 6-7 minutes ahead of me. I then also slow my pace for the rest of the 25 miles as I used so much energy in the first 5 miles and then the next 3 climbing the hill.
And I'm not complaining or crying about it. It hurts and I love it...especially when the ride is over! But like you said, it is a blast to try and keep up for just as long as I can and then try to push through a little longer after I don't think I can. I need to work on that last part actually. Next ride out I'm going to focus on pushing further when it hurts and see if I can hang on just a little longer
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07-22-19, 03:33 PM
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Assuming the bike you have fits or will be made to fit I would suggest you concentrate on fitness and skills. If, however, you are jonesin' for a new bike I'm all for scratching that itch. If that's the case you would do well to consider a CAAD 12 or 13. I recently bought a CAAD 12 w/105 on sale for $1300 and I am amazed at how good it is. Here''s a pic
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07-22-19, 03:40 PM
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Assuming the bike you have fits or will be made to fit I would suggest you concentrate on fitness and skills. If, however, you are jonesin' for a new bike I'm all for scratching that itch. If that's the case you would do well to consider a CAAD 12 or 13. I recently bought a CAAD 12 w/105 on sale for $1300 and I am amazed at how good it is. Here''s a pic
07-22-19, 04:04 PM
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I absolutely love this advice! I say that because my competitive nature gets the best of me on so many of my group rides with this club. Relative to the ability of most of the riders in my club, there is a tough climb at 5 miles into our usual Tuesday route. It's a freakin chore! So my mind always tells me to keep a comfortable steady pace through the first 5 miles so I have a good bit of energy left when I approach that climb. Well, it rarely happens that way. I find myself on the rear wheels of the A group usually at about an average of 21 mph until we approach the climb and then you guessed it...I'm spent and struggling to get to the top. By the time I get up there the A group is 6-7 minutes ahead of me. I then also slow my pace for the rest of the 25 miles as I used so much energy in the first 5 miles and then the next 3 climbing the hill.
And I'm not complaining or crying about it. It hurts and I love it...especially when the ride is over! But like you said, it is a blast to try and keep up for just as long as I can and then try to push through a little longer after I don't think I can. I need to work on that last part actually. Next ride out I'm going to focus on pushing further when it hurts and see if I can hang on just a little longer
And I'm not complaining or crying about it. It hurts and I love it...especially when the ride is over! But like you said, it is a blast to try and keep up for just as long as I can and then try to push through a little longer after I don't think I can. I need to work on that last part actually. Next ride out I'm going to focus on pushing further when it hurts and see if I can hang on just a little longer
I had to get back to this mindset myself recently. I had been finally getting into shape in April and early May. Then work got crazy busy. And then a family vacation meant being off the bike entirely for 2 weeks. First time back on the River Ride and I had to go into survival mode: hide, follow strong wheels, move up when the pack slows, hide some more. It helps that I've been going on this ride since 2003.
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07-22-19, 05:35 PM
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Nice, I could deal with that! About 5 or so pounds lighter than my current bike.
07-22-19, 06:14 PM
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07-22-19, 06:28 PM
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Miles are relative to the person. 600 miles in the last 2 months is actually a lot for me being that I only rode 1500 in the last 12 months. If anything that should show that I've stepped up my efforts. Several I know have rode 2000+ miles already this year. They can do that. Wish I could. I'm happy with training harder and riding more but the original question was can a better bike show even a small improvement in performance for a dude like me. Thanks.
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07-22-19, 07:19 PM
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You can probably tell I just have the itch to get a new bike. My current bike is a little big for my size and I think I will enjoy riding a bike that fits me better. With any luck I will zip around a little quicker too
07-22-19, 07:23 PM
#50
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,857
Bikes: Road bike, Hybrid, Gravel, Drop bar SS, hard tail MTB
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within its ability to transfer energy.
if you understand the difference in shoe sole stiffness, then you understand bicycle frames.
when you transfer energy to a pedal and your street shoe bends around the pedal you lost energy. A stiffer shoe sole transfers more energy from you to the pedal. Now apply this to crank arms that flex, chainrings that flex, BB's that flex / Frames that flex , wheels that flex, etc.....