msl109

Just acquired: serial 6200126

I'm told this frame was built up from a frame by the original purchaser - all Campy.

Only thing that distinguishes it from an Ultima as shown in the catalogs is the lack of chromed front lugs. Don't know if that was a catalog thing, or an option, or standard on the Ultima. But the Superleight seemed only to come in cream color. Pretty sure they're the exact same frame anyway.

Standard diagonal 531 decal, all 531. No suffix.

No top tube model name decal. May never have had one - frame has very little mileage on it, and it's unlikely that the decal would've worn and chipped off. The others are just about pristine.

Gold lug outlining, aluminum front A-D badge, only seat tube is pinstriped.

About half inch unattractive and uncreative drainage hole in bottom of BB. Measures just under 68mm, looks to have been faced.

No top tube braze ons but it had downtube shifter ones (the original owner sawed them off when he installed barcons. Grr.) And it has top of BB brazed on cable guides.

Paint chips reveal that at least stays are chromed under paint.

Campy dropouts

Fancy cut out Bocama lugs, I believe.

Most of the above can be seen in the pics.

I'm dating it based on color, serial number (assuming there's some kind of continuity to the serials posted thus far) and lack of top tube braze ons.

If someone can narrow this one down to a specific year, or correct me and tell me it could be older or newer, that would be great.

Hope this helps some people out.

Andy_K 

The Ultima Superleicht in the 1976 catalog was a one-off made for Gene Ritvo. You can see it here: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ht-part-i.html

Yours looks fairly identical to mine (pictured on the previous page) except for the head tube lugs. Yours are smoother on the head tube and extend further along the downtube. If you're interested in comparing details, you can see more detail shots of my A-D here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/263825...57668502010416

Mine came to me with a Campy Record headset and bottom bracket and a mix of mid-to-low end Shimano, Modulo and Sugino parts, unceremoniously cobbled together as a fixie. I have a suspicion that the headset and bottom bracket were supplied with the frame set.

My serial number is slightly lower than yours and I've been guessing mine is a 1979. I'm just guessing though. I've thought, based on the lack of model name decal, that it is the Team frame that I've seen referenced in various places. I'm just guessing about that too.

BTW, if you wnt to touch up the paint look for Nina Ultra Pro Cranberri nail polish. It's a perfect match -- at least it was for mine. It's shockingly difficult to get a good picture of the color, so I'm not certain yours is the same as mine.

msl109

Helpful - thanks ! So they never chromed the head tube lugs of the production Ultimas? Did yours ever have a top tube model name decal? Yours looks much the same as mine with differences you've noted. Only other thing I notice is your fork lugs are different. What makes you guess yours is a 79? I thought they would have had top tube brazes by then, but maybe I'm mistaken. Thanks loads for the nail polish tip. Was going to take the fork to a cosmetics store ...

Andy_K 

I've never seen chromed head tube lugs except on that one bike. My 1979 guess was based mostly on the serial numbers here and on the Classic Rendevous list. Since you mentioned the top tube guides, I went and had another look at the scans on bulgier.net. Sure enough, the 1979 pictures show brazed on cable guides but the 1978 pictures do not, though the description in the '78 catalog next to the pictures says that the top tube guides are brazed on. So maybe mine is a '76 or or '77.

Interestingly, in the '78 scans the fork crown on the Ultima looks like mine (except that it has A-D pantographed into it) and the fork crown on the Superleicht looks like yours.

msl109

The '78 crown does look like yours and it does seem like '77 was the last year for chrome cable clamps. As to '76, who knows, since the pic is of a one off. interestingly, that crown looks like mine, as do most AD crowns. So if you believe the text more than the pics (a safer bet), yours and mine both would fall between 76 and 77. I can't find a 77 catalog and there may have been no spec change between '76 & '77, so again, who knows. My guess is they used whatever lugs they had on hand and specs crossed years. Like Raleigh - a nightmare to date those. I find it interesting that both of ours didn't have top tube decals. Maybe if sold at a frame only, they didn't use the model name. Would make sense, because aside from components, the Ultima was an Ulraleight in red ... The components determined the model.

msl109

Spoke too soon. Here's the '77 catalog. Still featuring the one off Ultima ...

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...e-catalog.html

Andy_K 

Thanks for sharing. I had never seen that. It doesn't really tell me anything new, but I had never seen it. The Ultima pictures look like the one from the '76 catalog and the one from the '78 catalog. I guess that would explain the difference in picture and text about the cable guides in the '78 catalog. I'd love to have one of those boxes.

msl109

Yeah, those boxes / cases are unreal - marketing to luxury clientele. Wonder if anyone does have one - they were probably all tossed by dealers before anyone saw them.
I don't think they were terribly concerned about accurately depicting small changes in models from year to year. They weren't even concerned with the fact that the Ultima depicted for two years was a one off custom! Maybe if enough serials accumulate, someone can find a pattern.
Did you notice that the inset picture of the blue Ultima also shows it with chrome head tube lugs?

Andy_K 

I thought it looked that way, but I wasn't sure it wasn't a trick of the pixelation.

Akkorn

Found this AD SLE at Goodwill a couple Sundays ago. They had it priced at $200 & it sat for about 3 weeks, But the day I went in it was marked down to $35, plus it was a half price day, so $18 dollars. Paint has a lot of scraps & decals are rough. but the Hurets shift good & everything seems functional. Serial # is 6287943. I think its a 1980 or 81.

lueckebw

That looks just like my AD SLE, which I bought at Montgomery Cyclery in 1981. I believe mine is a 1980 model, serial number 6242604.

Akkorn

That will confirm 1980 for this one, as it doesn't quite match up to the 1981 catalog photos. Do you have a 1980 catalog?

Ferrouscious 

I know this thread is a bit old now, but I thought that since I know exactly when my AD was made, it would be ok. I have an 1982 AD Alpina, serial number 7005040. There are some catalogues at 2velo.

Andy_K 

Thanks for the contribution. Certainty with AD manufacturing years is an uncommon thing.

rustystrings61 

I know, responding to a 3-year-old post, but this bike is a Puch Royal X from 1976 in its original "salmon" color - they also came in white. One year only as far as I can tell, stock parts were Dura-Ace cranks, bottom bracket and headset, SunTour Cyclone front and rear derailleurs with Power Ratchet downtube shifters, Weinmann Carrera sidepulls, MKS pedals, Regina Oro 14-22 5-speed freewheel and chain, Normandy Luxe Competition hubs laced to Weinmann 27-in rims, SR LaPrade seatpost, SR bars and stem, Gillux 3000 saddle. Here's mine, serial number 5637702, which I recently re-acquired -

Louis Roth

thank you very much for this information; I will probably sell mine as I have too many bikes right now and this one does not get ridden
take care
Louis

Rexnuktia

Guys and gals, I am restoring an AD super leicht. Does anyone know what font the top tube decal is ?

Thanks so much!
AD

Wildwood 

Serial # is: 6978468 -- clearly legible and not the larger, sloppy stamped numbers on my AD Olympian. It also has stamped on the BB: 5 S 863. As well as a large "F", and "14"


I checked the Classic Rendezvous serial number list again and believe this frame to be 1982.


edit: assuming info in this link is accurate (https://www.company7.com/bosendorfer/....html#ventnoir) this frameset is an 1982 VN II.
re-edit for BB serial number pics. AND seeking help with identifying the other numbers on BB
------------------------------------------ _____________________________________________________

Wildwood 

I saw a comment from someone (posted a couple of years ago) that the details of their AD did not match the catalog description precisely.

For the record, my 1981/82 Olympian has the dropouts from the 1981 catalog, but the '82 decals. There was a slight difference in geo between the '81 and '82 but I haven't attempted to measure the headtube angle for the 1 degree of difference.


On a slightly different issue, the Bulgier.net scans show a page that states the VN, Olympian and Force used the same 531 F/F 'fast touring' frameset. My Olympian has no braze-ons for bottles or derailleur cable routing, but the VN has 2 sets of bottle braze-ons and cable guides for under BB routing for ders and on chainstay. Could these be the same year with different details (braze-ons)?; or would the VN be a later year based on frame braze-ons?

Wildwood 

bump for BB pics and
REQUESTING HELP in identifying the meaning of other numbers/letters.
TIA

Wildwood 

And looking for a date for Michelle.


CR list has a couple of numbers close with ? as a frame mfg date.

cletusjones

Total newbie here and new to this Brand as well. I bought a Bordeaux Red AD bike at a local pawn shop 3 weeks ago in ride able condition. It's a 531 frame and forks with no model name and mostly Campy Super Record components. My serial # is 5749014 which seems "75" to "77"ish but the components seem to be 1980 or so. I'm guessing an older frame set was purchased then built up with selected components. I'm riding it daily since it came back from the bike shop and I love it! I will replace the non-Campy stuff with correct Campagnolo components for the Ultima of 1980 vintage. Love this forum by the way!

alexihnen 

I'll add my UltimaSL in smoked chrome to the discussion here. I believe it's an '82.

Wildwood 

That is beautiful. I'm sure it rides like Heaven, especially with those nice tires.

In my limited experience, have never seen the Professional tubeset on an AD.
Bulgier.net has some catalogues - here's the link:
www.bulgier.net - /pics/bike/Catalogs/AustroDaimler/

for '82 they show 531SL tubesets on Ultima

alexihnen 

Huh. That is a bit of a mystery. Back into the interwebs I delve...


EDIT:

Looks like some of the Ultima SL framesets were built with Reynolds Professional tubing. I wonder how many?

"The top of the line Austro-Daimler bicycle was marketed as the Ultima series. These are built upon a TI Reynolds 531 (pronounced "five three one") alloy lugged frame with premium lighter weight Campagnolo Super Record series components. Later in the production history the "ULTIMA super leicht" were introduced. These "ULTIMA super leicht" have been seen bearing the AD head badge and with the "AUSTRO-DAIMLER" decal on the down tube, though later production models will bear the PUCH head badge and top stay tips with the round STEYR decal on the seat tube and the "AUSTRO-DAIMLER" decal on the down tube. These SL models were made with the Reynolds 531 Special Lightweight alloy marketed as "531 SL", with tube walls as thick or thicker than the standard 531. Some were made with the "531 SL Professional" (or 531 Professional) tube sets, with walls as thin as the standard 531 tubes but of the same lightweight alloy as the 531 SL. While a standard 531 frame set might weigh about 2200 grams, a similar size 531 SL frame set will weigh about 1990 grams; a weight savings of about 10 percent. The 531 Professional frame weighs even less averaging 1900 grams, about 5 percent less than the 531 SL."