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What to do with the old tandem?

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What to do with the old tandem?

Old 07-28-20, 08:37 AM
  #26  
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We have sold three tandems in the last year, two of our own and one for a friend. They were all in decent shape. The 22 year old Santana Sovereign took the longest to sell, and got the smallest % of its showroom purchase price. The 20 year old coupled Bilenky sold pretty quickly at a fair price. We had purchased each of them used, so the discount to our purchase price was not nearly as great as if we’d bought them new. They were good bikes that we rode and enjoyed for years.

The 8 year old Cannondale, which had less than 1,000 miles, sold for 2/3 of original purchase price. it sold very quickly.

TandemClassifieds.com + Craigslist + Facebook Marketplace are good listing spots, but I think the buyers in each case came from TandemClassifieds.

Bikes are selling relatively quickly right now, and I think tandems are included in that trend. That said, a tandem can linger for months until the right match comes along. Of course, if you’ve got an unusual size, odd components, or its in un-rideable condition, then you’ve got an uphill slog. And, like anything else, a bit of common sense marketing helps. I’m amazed at the number of ads that have only one or two blurry pictures and skimpy descriptions. You’re asking someone to send you a lot of money for something they have to buy before they can see it - make it as easy as possible.

Finally, you’ll be glad your old tandem is being ridden and appreciated.

We bought a new coupled Carrera and are throughly enjoying the bike, especially the Di2 drive-train. With that bike, one is all we need. We’re ready for the pandemic to end and get back to some fun trips.

Last edited by CaliTexan; 07-28-20 at 10:34 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 07-28-20, 08:38 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
The superior stopping power also allows you to ride differently.
Yes "differently", you must stop on long descents. Yes, fancy hydraulics will allow faster response, not doubt about. And on steep hills, the possibility of fluid boiling, and over time, fluid bubbles, leaks, warped rotors, fried pads. Yes, for most people, discs are fine...and for most people, rim brakes are fine. Without regular maintenance, neither will work.
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Old 07-28-20, 11:00 AM
  #28  
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Late response to your question

Originally Posted by Markeologist
Scanning the old posts on Ritchey tandems given my recent purchase, I asked about your early Ritchey earlier this morning, then I found this picture..."T. Ritchey" frame decal...wow. Still like to know what components you have, in particular the crankset. Glad to read you were keeping. We rode a lot of Norcal tandem club rides in the late 80s/early 90s and there was a couple who rode a red burgundy red Ritchey...you two perhaps?
Sorry that I missed your question last week. As I described in another thread (Bad things can happen) we fell and broke my wife's hip in early June. Since then tandems have not been a big part of our lives.

The components on our original Ritchey tandem, built back in 1977, were mostly the usual Campagnolo nuovo record stuff people put on good bike back in the 70's. The drive train is based on standard Campagnolo cranksets, with spacers added so that a third chain ring could be added. This let us put the connecting chain on the same side as the drive chain. As many older tandem riders know, the old style rear spindles often would break on tandems with left side connecting chains.




The important exceptions were the hubs, which were drilled for 48 spokes. Originally we used a Phil Wood on the front, but those bearing wore out so we bought a White Industries hub. The rear hub is a heavily modified Atom drum brake. Atom made the standard tandem rear hub in the 70s. I added flanges, drilled for 48 spokes. Those big flanges put the spoke holes outside the diameter of the freewheel so that we could change spokes on the road.



I also replaced the aluminum freewheel threads with a steel insert that fit Campagnolo bearing cups. The resulting hub had a crude "made-in-a-cave" look, but it served us well for over 40 years.

Our bike was always bright red and we never joined club rides so I doubt we were the burgundy red tandem you met in the 80s. I believe Tom only made about a half-dozen of these complicated frames before switching to the simpler Skyliner design he made during the 80s. There is a burgundy red version of our frame hanging in the Marin County Bicycle Museum. Jack Breeze and Guy Otis raced that tandem across the country.

We used Campagnolo derailleurs and integrated shift levers on our new bike. This is my first bike with integrated shifters. I test rode one of Tom's tandems setup with Shimano shifters, but decided I preferred the Campagnolo design. The Campagnolo derailleurs work well enough; however, the triple in front will hesitate if the chain isn't clean. If I made this choice again I probably would chose a Shimano or SRAM system with only two chainrings. However, that choice would require an alternative to the FSA tandem crankset, which I have not seen on the market.

Finally, as I said earlier in this thread, the most important improvement on the new Ritchey is the braking system. Initially I disliked the apparent fragility of disks; however, the stopping power of those 250mm Hope rotors, even with TRP mechanical calipers, is phenomenal.

Last edited by MikeAndJean; 07-28-20 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 07-28-20, 11:47 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by IPassGas
Yes "differently", you must stop on long descents. Yes, fancy hydraulics will allow faster response, not doubt about. And on steep hills, the possibility of fluid boiling, and over time, fluid bubbles, leaks, warped rotors, fried pads. Yes, for most people, discs are fine...and for most people, rim brakes are fine. Without regular maintenance, neither will work.

Use a disc brake as a drag brake, you have the risk of all the things you mention. Use it properly, and they’re quite robust.

Net, net, if you want , need a drag brake you’re right about discs not being the answer, but they’re working quite well for many teams that use them as intended
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Old 07-28-20, 12:25 PM
  #30  
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With regard to the Arai drag brake:

If the pads are glazed, then like any brake with glazed pads, it won't work.

Way back in the day, it was common to surface new drum pads so that when actuated they were the same diameter as the existing drum for maximum friction, bypassing the break-in period. I, for one, had this done many, many times as I tended to turn the drums of my Mustang blue from heat caused by "aggressive" driving...Most people just installed new pads, turned the drums & waited for the components to "wear together."

If your Arai Drum is particularly unused for it's age, it may have never concluded it's break in period. Braking will get better as more of the pads wear into contact with the drum.

Likewise, if grease, anti-seize, or other contaminate from the mounting threads made it to the braking surface, then glazing is very likely to have occured. The solution is Brak-leen & standard coarse garnet sandpaper. Don't worry, you can't hurt it if doing it by hand.

If you don't have Brak-leen a more old-school method is to soak the pads in gasoline or similar solvent to disolve & draw out any grease that may have soaked into the pad material.

This may be necessary more than once depending on the degree of contamination.
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Old 07-28-20, 03:57 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by MikeAndJean
Sorry that I missed your question last week. As I described in another thread (Bad things can happen) we fell and broke my wife's hip in early June. Since then tandems have not been a big part of our lives.

The components on our original Ritchey tandem, built back in 1977, were mostly the usual Campagnolo nuovo record stuff people put on good bike back in the 70's. The drive train is based on standard Campagnolo cranksets, with spacers added so that a third chain ring could be added. This let us put the connecting chain on the same side as the drive chain. As many older tandem riders know, the old style rear spindles often would break on tandems with left side connecting chains.




The important exceptions were the hubs, which were drilled for 48 spokes. Originally we used a Phil Wood on the front, but those bearing wore out so we bought a White Industries hub. The rear hub is a heavily modified Atom drum brake. Atom made the standard tandem rear hub in the 70s. I added flanges, drilled for 48 spokes. Those big flanges put the spoke holes outside the diameter of the freewheel so that we could change spokes on the road.



I also replaced the aluminum freewheel threads with a steel insert that fit Campagnolo bearing cups. The resulting hub had a crude "made-in-a-cave" look, but it served us well for over 40 years.

Our bike was always bright red and we never joined club rides so I doubt we were the burgundy red tandem you met in the 80s. I believe Tom only made about a half-dozen of these complicated frames before switching to the simpler Skyliner design he made during the 80s. There is a burgundy red version of our frame hanging in the Marin County Bicycle Museum. Jack Breeze and Guy Otis raced that tandem across the country.

We used Campagnolo derailleurs and integrated shift levers on our new bike. This is my first bike with integrated shifters. I test rode one of Tom's tandems setup with Shimano shifters, but decided I preferred the Campagnolo design. The Campagnolo derailleurs work well enough; however, the triple in front will hesitate if the chain isn't clean. If I made this choice again I probably would chose a Shimano or SRAM system with only two chainrings. However, that choice would require an alternative to the FSA tandem crankset, which I have not seen on the market.

Finally, as I said earlier in this thread, the most important improvement on the new Ritchey is the braking system. Initially I disliked the apparent fragility of disks; however, the stopping power of those 250mm Hope rotors, even with TRP mechanical calipers, is phenomenal.
Thanks for the reply and sorry to hear about the mishap. The bike I bought is the one from the Bicycle Museum, it used to hang above the door (pic is from museum courtesy of Icepick Trotsky). Otis Guy and Joe Breeze's Ritchey was dark blue and decaled with "ANCHOR STEAMER" as they had sponsorship from Anchor Steam/Fritz Maytag for their cross country record attempt. Their Ritchey is currently in the US Cycling Museum in Davis. It was for sale for a bit in Marin but I passed as it was way too big for me...but I loved the history. I've wanted an early Ritchey road tandem since seeing the Anchor Steamer and pounced when this one came up for sale in my size. I asked about your components as I think mine received a few changes over the years...not many but a few. Thanks again, stay healthy, and I wish your wife a solid recovery. Mark

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Old 07-28-20, 05:05 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Markeologist
Thanks for the reply and sorry to hear about the mishap. The bike I bought is the one from the Bicycle Museum, it used to hang above the door (pic is from museum courtesy of Icepick Trotsky). Otis Guy and Joe Breeze's Ritchey was dark blue and decaled with "ANCHOR STEAMER" as they had sponsorship from Anchor Steam/Fritz Maytag for their cross country record attempt. Their Ritchey is currently in the US Cycling Museum in Davis. It was for sale for a bit in Marin but I passed as it was way too big for me...but I loved the history. I've wanted an early Ritchey road tandem since seeing the Anchor Steamer and pounced when this one came up for sale in my size. I asked about your components as I think mine received a few changes over the years...not many but a few. Thanks again, stay healthy, and I wish your wife a solid recovery. Mark

My memory was wrong about the color of JOE Breeze's and Guy Otis' tandem.

So you also have one of those original Ritchey tandems. It is by far the best tandem frame we ever rode - both stiff and light with that smooth ride that comes from steel tubing. It also fits Jean and me perfectly. Most tandem frame builders in the 70s subscribed to the silly myth that tandems climbed slowly because of their long wheel bases. Bob Jackson and Schwinn actually built their tandems with a curved rear seat tubes so that the rear wheel could be moved forward. This was all nonsense and usually resulted in a cramped fit for the stoker. Tom toyed with the same myth when he built his very first tandem. However, not wanting to short change the stoker (he had just married his first wife) he reduced the wheelbase length by shortened the front top tube and then added an extra long stem. We test rode that bike, liked the workmanship but talked Tom into a more conventional geometry for our bike. I believe our tandem was the first he made of this series.

Your frame has several differences from ours. The most notable are the brakes. We rode with Campy side-pulls and yours has Mafac cantilevers. If you measure the mechanical advantage, they are the same for both brake designs. We opted for the side-pulls because of we had damaged the cantilever brakes we had on our previous tandem (one of those Bob Jacksons with a silly curved seat tube). Also, the Campy side-pulls are a little stiffer. Do you also have a hub brake?

Another difference is the connection between the rear diagonals and the rear seat tube. In our bike that connection is a single tube that runs through the seat tube, perpendicular to the plane of the frame. It looks like your frame has the more elegant X connector, which is made up of two tubes that cross at the center axis of the seat tube. Tom developed that design for the prototype with the short base I mentioned earlier. However, we were pressing him for time (after all summer was coming) so to save time he built our frame with the simpler design.

Our forks are very different; however, ours is not the original fork Tom built for us. Currently our frame has its fifth fork. Tom built the first fork with an open crown and reinforced blades. It looked like the fork shown in the photo attached to my earlier message. That fork had a very strong crown and blades, but Tom used a standard size steerer, which made us very nervous because the likely point of failure was hidden behind the bottom headset race. Therefore, after a year, just to stop us from complaining (and because he is a nice guy) Tom made a new fork for us based on what is called a "Masi crown". This fork actually failed on us because of a bad braze so Tom made a third fork that was the prototype for the unicrown design that became his standard design for the bikes he built in the 80s. As prototypes tend to do, that unicrown fork eventually failed. Unfortunately Tom was out of town and we were headed off to Europe so another frame building friend (Peter Johnson) built a replacement, based on the original open crown design. Unfortunately, that fourth fork eventually failed where the fork blade was brazed to the underside of the upper crown plate. Peter solved that problem, leaving us with the current fork we have ridden for roughly 20 years.

By the way, when a say a fork "failed", I mean a crack formed. If any of these forks had actually broken, in the usual sense, I probably wouldn't be writing this message. The advantage of steel frames is that the cracks that form as the first stage of a failure make a lot of noise. We also painted our frame a bright color so that cracks would be more visible.

We had Tom setup our bike with the connecting chain on the right side to avoid the risk of breaking the rear spindle. As I mentioned earlier, we had seen that happen. Also, a same-side drive has a stiffer feel because the front rider doesn't wind up the rear spindle when stomping up a hill. We also liked having conventional parts on our bike. Stripping a thread on any one of those beautiful Campy tandem cranks leaves you with the expense of replacing the entire crankset. Eventually we did break the rear crank on the right side. The failure was on one of the five spiders. However, single right-side cranks are easy to come by.

We replaced our Campagnolo pedals with Shimano SPDs when clipless pedals came along. Also our rims have gone through countless replacements over the years. Otherwise, our Ritchey is pretty much the way it was when we first put it together back in the Spring of 1977.

Last edited by MikeAndJean; 07-28-20 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 07-28-20, 05:49 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by MikeAndJean
My memory was wrong about the color of JOE Breeze's and Guy Otis' tandem.

So you also have one of those original Ritchey tandems. It is by far the best tandem frame we ever rode - both stiff and light with that smooth ride that comes from steel tubing. It also fits Jean and me perfectly. Most tandem frame builders in the 70s subscribed to the silly myth that tandems climbed slowly because of their long wheel bases. Bob Jackson and Schwinn actually built their tandems with a curved rear seat tubes so that the rear wheel could be moved forward. This was all nonsense and usually resulted in a cramped fit for the stoker. Tom toyed with the same myth when he built his very first tandem. However, not wanting to short change the stoker (he had just married his first wife) he reduced the wheelbase length by shortened the front top tub and then added an extra long stem. We test rode that bike, liked the workmanship but talked Tom into a more conventional geometry for our bike. I believe our tandem was the first he made of this series.

Your frame has several differences from ours. The most notable are the brakes. We rode with Campy side-pulls and yours has Mafac cantilevers. If you measure the mechanical advantage, they are the same for both brake designs. We opted for the side-pulls because of we had damaged the cantilever brakes we had on our previous tandem (one of those Bob Jacksons with a silly curved seat tube). Also, the Campy side-pulls are a little stiffer. Do you also have a hub brake?

Another difference is the connection between the rear diagonal and the rear seat tube. In our bike that connection is a single tube that runs through the seat tube, perpendicular to the plane of the frame. It looks like your frame has the more elegant X connector, which is made up of two tubes that cross at the center axis of the seat tube. Tom developed that design for the prototype with the short base I mentioned earlier. However, we were pressing him for time (after all summer was coming) so to save time he built our frame with the simpler design.

Our forks are very different; however, ours is not the original fork Tom built for us. Currently our frame has its fifth fork. Tom built the first fork with an open crown and reinforced blades. It looked like the fork shown in the photo attached to my earlier message. That fork had a very strong crown and blades, but Tom used a standard size steerer, which made us very nervous because the likely point of failure was hidden behind the bottom headset race. Therefore, after a year, just to stop us from complaining (and because he is a nice guy) Tom made a new fork for us based on what is called a "Masi crown". This fork actually failed on us because of a bad braze so Tom made a third fork that was the prototype for the unicrown design that became his standard design for the bikes he built in the 80s. As prototypes tend to do, that unicrown fork eventually failed. Unfortunately Tom was out of town and we were headed off to Europe so another frame building friend (Peter Johnson) built a replacement, based on the original open crown design. Unfortunately, that fourth fork eventually failed where the fork blade was brazed to the underside of the upper crown plate. Peter solved that problem, leaving us with the current fork we have ridden for roughly 20 years.

By the way, when a say a fork "failed", I mean a crack formed. If any of these forks had actually broken, in the usual sense, I probably wouldn't be writing this message. The advantage of steel frames is that the cracks that form as the first stage of a failure make a lot of noise. We also painted our frame a bright color so that cracks would be more visible.

We had Tom setup our bike with the connecting chain on the right side to avoid the risk of breaking the rear spindle. As I mentioned earlier, we had seen that happen. Also, a same-side drive has a stiffer feel because the front rider doesn't wind up the rear spindle when stomping up a hill. We also liked having conventional parts on our bike. Stripping a thread on any one of those beautiful Campy tandem cranks leaves you with the expense of replacing the entire crankset. Eventually we did break the rear crank on the right side. The failure was on one of the five spiders. However, single right-side cranks are easy to come by.

We replaced our Campagnolo pedals with Shimano SPDs when clipless pedals came along. Also our rims have gone through countless replacements over the years. Otherwise, our Ritchey is pretty much the way it was when we first put it together back in the Spring of 1977.
Yes, my Ritchey has the "X" brace between the stoker seat tube and the rear laterals, very elegant. I've only done an around the block ride so far and it needs some tuning. I love steel bikes and my wife and I have been riding our custom Rodriguez since 1987. It too is beautifully fillet brazed, Angel Rodriguez using a single oval tube between headtube and rear seat post as well as an oval boob tube to stiffen laterally.

The Ritchey has an Arai drum brake but it is not hooked up and there is no evidence it ever has been. We have never used anything besides cantilevers on our Rodriguez, even when loaded touring in Sierra or Coast Range. Our Rodriguez was made after the component companies started making cantilevers for mountain bikes which were/are so much better than Mafacs (I was a fairly early Mtn Biker and I used Mafacs before Shimano came out with their Deores). We used Scott Pederson self-energizing brakes when they were released a year or so after buying our tandem. We used them exclusively for a few decades on our Rodriguez until some @$$-wipe stole them off our bike at L'Eroica a few years back (parked in parking facility of very nice hotel...also stole my wife's Brooks Pro). We replaced the Scott Pedersons with the Suntour XC version but only the rear is self-energizing....I miss the originals.

In your earlier message, you indicated that Ritchey had only built a handful of tandems. In an interview with Peloton Magazine, Tom says he had built around 50 tandems by 1980. The link to this article is below...I think you will recognize a photo in the article!

https://pelotonmagazine.com/intervie...rnal-original/
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Old 07-28-20, 06:24 PM
  #34  
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Wow, lot of great stories out there. We had a tough time selling our Santana Arriva in the early 1990s, but fortunately the bike shop selling us our next tandem took it on consignment and off it went. Our (lighter 35 pounds)Rodriguez monuntain tandem with 650s wheels was sold (12 years later) immediately when someone asked about it, and then we bought the Cannondale road tandem, mostly for the Avid mechanical disc brakes to handle steep rainy descents.

I think disc brakes are the best things for tandem since suspension seatposts for stokers.

I'm thinking at our age (mid-60s) if there is another tandem left in our marriage we will look at an e-bike assisted tandem so the long climbs will not take us all day. Just going to swallow our pride with our reduced VO2max , but getting old sucks and we still love to ride.
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Old 07-28-20, 06:30 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Markeologist
Yes, my Ritchey has the "X" brace between the stoker seat tube and the rear laterals, very elegant. I've only done an around the block ride so far and it needs some tuning. I love steel bikes and my wife and I have been riding our custom Rodriguez since 1987. It too is beautifully fillet brazed, Angel Rodriguez using a single oval tube between headtube and rear seat post as well as an oval boob tube to stiffen laterally.

The Ritchey has an Arai drum brake but it is not hooked up and there is no evidence it ever has been. We have never used anything besides cantilevers on our Rodriguez, even when loaded touring in Sierra or Coast Range. Our Rodriguez was made after the component companies started making cantilevers for mountain bikes which were/are so much better than Mafacs (I was a fairly early Mtn Biker and I used Mafacs before Shimano came out with their Deores). We used Scott Pederson self-energizing brakes when they were released a year or so after buying our tandem. We used them exclusively for a few decades on our Rodriguez until some @$$-wipe stole them off our bike at L'Eroica a few years back (parked in parking facility of very nice hotel...also stole my wife's Brooks Pro). We replaced the Scott Pedersons with the Suntour XC version but only the rear is self-energizing....I miss the originals.

In your earlier message, you indicated that Ritchey had only built a handful of tandems. In an interview with Peloton Magazine, Tom says he had built around 50 tandems by 1980. The link to this article is below...I think you will recognize a photo in the article!

https://pelotonmagazine.com/intervie...rnal-original/
I believe that most of those "50 tandems" mentioned in that article are the Skyliner design. Tom complained to me about the work that went into building our frames. The diagonals and the fancy cross pieces add a lot of time to the build. I'm pretty sure he built less than a dozen of those complicated double-diagonal frames. Skyliners are a typical two-dimensional frame that depends entirely on the strength of the joints for its stiffness. Our frames are three-dimensional, with those diagonals outside the plane of the frame. That extra width adds a lot of rigidity to the frame. However, that advantage comes at a cost that doesn't make sense if you are trying to make money.

I grew up in Seattle and met Rodriguez when he was just a kid hanging out in the bike shop where I worked (Pine Street Cycles). He makes beautiful frames but I never understood the logic behind oval tubes. These first appeared on those beautiful European tandems made by builders like Jack Taylor. At first thought they would seem to add "width" to the frame. However, if you think about the bottom and top tubes on a frame, they basically are in torsion. The torsional rigidity of a cylinder increases as a square of the diameter. I can't do the math but I believe the torsional rigidity of an oval cross section increases as a square of the minor diameter. Therefore, those oval tubes appear to be giving up a lot a strength they could be adding to the frame. That is why Tom made is tubes large and round. Compare the diameter of your connecting tube and the major diameter of the tubes on that beautiful Rodriquez. I believe they are about the same.

That photo of my wife and me pushing our bike past an obstacle on Alpine Road was taken in 1986. The tall guy in front is the legendary Jobst Brandt. Jobst was the best mechanical engineer I ever met. He provided Tom with many of the ideas found in Tom's bikes today. Interestingly, one of those ideas was riding bikes on dirt. When I picked our tandem frame up at Tom's shop (his mother's garage in Los Altos) there was a stack of funny looking frames in the corner. I believe these were Tom's first order of mountain bike frames, which were delivered to Prof. Scott in Davis. Tom started riding on dirt as a participant in Jobst's Sunday morning rides. If you look at the photo, there isn't a "mountain bike" in the group. Those rides had been going on since before 1972, when I first joined. A Jobst ride started on pavement in Palo Alto but always involved riding on some of the many dirt roads in the Santa Cruz mountains. This was back before mountain bikes were common so there were no signs prohibiting bikes. About the time Tom built our tandem, he showed one Sunday morning with a funny looking bike with fat tires, flat bars and low gears. Of course, we all laughed at Tom, which showed what fools we were.

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Old 07-28-20, 09:11 PM
  #36  
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Really appreciate the stories of Tom Ritchey, Jobst Brandt, and the Bay Area cycling scene of the 1970s. I worked as an engineer for HP in Palo Alto in the 70s, and knew a lot of avid cyclists, but don’t remember ever meeting Jobst, or Tom for that matter. Sorry I missed a great opportunity.

My assumption on the oval tubes is they are stiffer in the direction of the larger dimension, thus allowing for better resistance against the forces tending to bend the frame sideways, such as pedaling force from the captain’s position, while remaining more compliant to vertical forces due to road surface irregularities. But then I was never an ME, and my engineering brain was subsequently shrunken by years as a manager.
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Old 07-29-20, 12:49 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by reburns
Really appreciate the stories of Tom Ritchey, Jobst Brandt, and the Bay Area cycling scene of the 1970s. I worked as an engineer for HP in Palo Alto in the 70s, and knew a lot of avid cyclists, but don’t remember ever meeting Jobst, or Tom for that matter. Sorry I missed a great opportunity.

My assumption on the oval tubes is they are stiffer in the direction of the larger dimension, thus allowing for better resistance against the forces tending to bend the frame sideways, such as pedaling force from the captain’s position, while remaining more compliant to vertical forces due to road surface irregularities. But then I was never an ME, and my engineering brain was subsequently shrunken by years as a manager.
That would make sense if the only load on a tandem frame was a bending load - like shown in the following crude sketch. Think of a load that bends the frame while keeping the seat tubes parallel.



However, the real loads on a tandem twist the frame, like that shown in the next sketch. Think of a load that distorts the frame so that the seat tubes are no longer parallel. These loads happen when the two riders are not perfectly in sync.


Twisting load put the top and bottom tubes in torsion, which favors a large circular cross section tube.
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Old 08-22-20, 10:11 PM
  #38  
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In response to the posters questions of how to find buyers for a tandem.

I faced the daunting task of unloading 8 bikes (one tandem) during the last few months of Covid lockdown. I had tried listing the tandem (20 yo non-coupled Sovereign fully updated to Ultegra 10spd.) several times on Craigslist and only got one response, a heckler who'd seen it there over I think a year or 2, asking me if I was dreaming because he thought my asking price was high. I also had an all italian, all campagnolo vintage track bike, some all 10 spd. dura ace road & CX racing bikes, none of which I rode anymore. I also listed several complete bikes on bay. Nothing. The few lower end bikes (cruisers and the like, under $600) did recently sell on Craigslist.

The high end bikes languished, never selling, getting no action, even at low prices. I finally bit the bullet on a new strategy. I broke them down into components and frames and over 3 months made 150 ebay listings. Average time on market for any item was 7 days, max time on market for any item 30 days, prices realized in aggregate were approx. 50% HIGHER than my previous asking prices and even what I had projected the components would fetch. Over the 12 week period, weekly income averaged $1k +. Literally every single item I listed sold quickly, and for great prices. Mostly 10- 20yo vintage premium brand components, but also obscure stuff too. It all sold. I wish I had more stuff to keep it going. The sales action was so good it was fun ! 100% of my entire bicycle inventory GONE to new owners for their bicycle projects.

My theory is that a buyer sees components on their bike, or sees their components on a frameset, and is quick to buy either. Whereas that same buyer shies from the used complete bike because each bike is an assemblage of specs and components of another - prior rider. Therefore complete used bikes have low demand & are available at a steep discount. Similar to the real estate principle of not having personal items or family photos in the staging and showing of a house, so a buyer sees their family there, not the former owner. I could be dead wrong on this theory.

I then bought a previously owned but never ridden late model Santana Beyond Phd with Dura Ace and XTR Di2 and all the ti/carbon trimmings for a minor fraction of new price. There is still a net postive balance in the bike kitty for future upgrades or tandem trips.

If I was working full time I would not have had time to get this done, or it would have taken a year vs. 90 days total. I listed on average 10-20 items a week. The time investment was about 10-15 hrs a week to clean, photo, list, and fulfill the orders. I had hesitated to do this before because of the taskiness, but once I found a rythym and an assembly line like efficiency, it wasn't that bad.

Shipping notes: XL size Tandem frame shipped 5000 miles cost $100 on Bikeflights. 1/2 bike frames & wheelsets were $50 ( I did notice a significant shipping price and time creep up during Covid) Wheelsets and frames went Bikeflight, all else went via USPS on Ebay's discounted rates.

I am tickled with the outcome. My stable now only includes bikes I ride often. My garage is clear, bank account pleased. The buyers of all the old bike bling are super happy too.

I think this is my future formula. Buy complete high end used bikes, then when it's time to dispose of, break into components and off they go.... I dont want to ever again fill my storage with a bunch of bikes I don't ride. No matter how nice they once were.

Good luck to y'all. Of course the maint thing is to frequently get out, ride whatever ya got, & have fun. YMMV
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Old 08-25-20, 10:14 AM
  #39  
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On a more mundane note, we have had our third rear flat tire on our DaVinci Grand Junction in 3 weeks. I guess more people out walking since Covid 19 is leading to more broken glass on the road. I am glad we hung onto our Trek T900. So, on those mornings when we wake up to find a flat tire, I can grab the backup tandem and wait until the weekend to change the tube. Having a backup tandem has its benefits.
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Old 08-25-20, 10:28 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by MikeAndJean
Sorry that I missed your question last week. As I described in another thread (Bad things can happen) we fell and broke my wife's hip in early June. Since then tandems have not been a big part of our lives.

The components on our original Ritchey tandem, built back in 1977, were mostly the usual Campagnolo nuovo record stuff people put on good bike back in the 70's. The drive train is based on standard Campagnolo cranksets, with spacers added so that a third chain ring could be added. This let us put the connecting chain on the same side as the drive chain. As many older tandem riders know, the old style rear spindles often would break on tandems with left side connecting chains.




The important exceptions were the hubs, which were drilled for 48 spokes. Originally we used a Phil Wood on the front, but those bearing wore out so we bought a White Industries hub. The rear hub is a heavily modified Atom drum brake. Atom made the standard tandem rear hub in the 70s. I added flanges, drilled for 48 spokes. Those big flanges put the spoke holes outside the diameter of the freewheel so that we could change spokes on the road.



I also replaced the aluminum freewheel threads with a steel insert that fit Campagnolo bearing cups. The resulting hub had a crude "made-in-a-cave" look, but it served us well for over 40 years.

Our bike was always bright red and we never joined club rides so I doubt we were the burgundy red tandem you met in the 80s. I believe Tom only made about a half-dozen of these complicated frames before switching to the simpler Skyliner design he made during the 80s. There is a burgundy red version of our frame hanging in the Marin County Bicycle Museum. Jack Breeze and Guy Otis raced that tandem across the country.

We used Campagnolo derailleurs and integrated shift levers on our new bike. This is my first bike with integrated shifters. I test rode one of Tom's tandems setup with Shimano shifters, but decided I preferred the Campagnolo design. The Campagnolo derailleurs work well enough; however, the triple in front will hesitate if the chain isn't clean. If I made this choice again I probably would chose a Shimano or SRAM system with only two chainrings. However, that choice would require an alternative to the FSA tandem crankset, which I have not seen on the market.

Finally, as I said earlier in this thread, the most important improvement on the new Ritchey is the braking system. Initially I disliked the apparent fragility of disks; however, the stopping power of those 250mm Hope rotors, even with TRP mechanical calipers, is phenomenal.
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Old 08-25-20, 10:41 AM
  #41  
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The previous owner couldn't find a captain. I'm having the same problem. Jeffrey Richman, Crane/DA/Phil/Mafac/Zues/Campy... Been trying to find more info on the builder. He did build for Gary Fisher before Ritchey took over.
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Old 08-25-20, 10:53 AM
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Looking good!

Originally Posted by curbtender
Was that photo taken on their actual ride across the country or on a local training ride?
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Old 08-25-20, 11:41 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by MikeAndJean
Was that photo taken on their actual ride across the country or on a local training ride?
Preserving History: Mountain Bike Hall of Fame « Mountain Flyer Magazine
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