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Upgrading for Touring gears and tires ???

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Old 09-03-16, 09:44 AM
  #26  
elizwlsn
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Originally Posted by nfmisso
On a budget? no need to increase the front wheel from 32 spokes, just keep your current wheel.

Assuming your bike has a 10 speed or less cassette and Shimano RD, get a Shimano M592 RD and a 12-36 cassette. You will want to add a in-line cable adjuster if your bike does not have them already.

I have no idea what this is. I may or may not have this. Can you explain?
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Old 09-03-16, 03:56 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Like so much in this forum, the discussion has gone to an extreme and absurd place.

What to use when it comes to to components and gear for touring is always a comprimise. Be it a cost compromise, quality compromise, or weight compromise.
You are willing to compromise weight for better flat protection and tread life, and thats cool.

All i did was point out the reality that a tire which is 2x as heavy does not provide 2x the flat protecrion or 2x they tread life.

In no way have i suggested any of the over the top extremes you are sarcastically suggesting i adopt and going to that point of absurdity to dismiss my views is not helpful or necessary.

I continually advocate 36h rims and use them because i find it better to be safe than sorry and the slight weight difference, in my mind, is worth it.

When it comes to tires though, i think that there are great tires which weigh 40-50% less than the Marathons you use which will still provide excellent flat protection and tread life. Heck, one of em thats been discussed in this thread is a Marathon so its not like the model is bad in my mind.


Back to my original comment- there are multiple versions of the Marathon tire. There is a lighterweight model which is still very reliable in heavy duty use.
Thats all my point was.
Yes sometimes being absurd is necessary to get a point across because being logical doesn't work with some people...

I never said a tire that is 2 times heavier is 2 times less likely to get flats, and that's why I have to be absurd because of statements like that. However when touring you have to look at more than just flat protection, you have to look how long will the tire wear, depends on load being carried of course which I already addressed earlier.

By the way I also advocate 36 hole spoke wheels too, so at least one thing we agree on and understand.
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Old 09-03-16, 04:35 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by elizwlsn
I have no idea what this is. I may or may not have this. Can you explain?
in line cable adjuster ?



Because the M592 does not have a cable adjuster.
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Old 09-03-16, 05:49 PM
  #29  
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Way to complicate stuff guys.

For me, the OP has to tell us what his/her touring aspirations are. These include:

-- Previous experience both riding and touring.

-- Where s/he wants to tour.

-- What sort of comfort they want/need on tour, which in turn relates to how much gear s/he intend to carry.

-- What sort of mechanical aptitute s/he already has to cope with any repairs.

-- Why the need to go to such wide tyres in the first place.

-- What are the current 32H wheels on the bike, and have they presented any issues so far in riding them (and how far they have been ridden).

Some observations:

Good quality rims on good quality hubs generally can go to 32H without causing issues when loaded. Our tandem runs 32H front and rear with Mavic A719 rims. Absolutely no problems.

I continue to be amazed at the widths people want to run on their touring bikes. Given that some *might* go offroad, I just cannot see the trade-off in "comfort" and speed. 32mm is the widest I have run on any 700C bike (I have run 1.5" on my MTB conversion and couldn't go efficiently enough for my liking).

The weight issue on wheels is something that is somewhat important if any sort of flying is contemplated. Saving 500g/1lb or more off the bike, means that the maximum weight on most airlines (currently 23kg including box for those in Australia) is much easier to achieve... or you don't have to leave behind an essential or comfort piece of camping/eating/repair equipment.

I also get concerned at the notion that the rest of the world is "uncivilised" and don't have 700C tyres available. Goodness, I've even read where people are taking spare 700C tyres and tubes with them to New Zealand! Without even knowing where the OP finally does intend to tour, posters are suggesting she takes a spare tyre with him/her. The best advice has been a tyre boot. AS it is, I have never carried a spare tyre on a tour other than moving from one job to another... and have never needed one because I look at where I am going!

The gearing issue seems to be sorted to an extent, but does the Sirrus come with a triple or double front set-up? If really steep Alpine climbing is contemplated, what are the options for fitting an MTB crankset. Again, lack of information stops anyone from offering decent opinions.
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Old 09-03-16, 10:02 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Doug64
From my experience you can go up to a 34 tooth cassette with a change to a mtn bike rear derailleur. Your present shifters would still work.
Wouldn't a derailleur hanger extender work for this too?
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Old 09-03-16, 10:43 PM
  #31  
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We have used 28mm Continual Gatorskins, on several fully-loaded tours, including a tour across the U.S. We have also used 32mm Gatorskins. They are a great tire; fast, light, and good handling characteristics. While not a great gravel tire, it can handle construction and the occasional stretches of gravel and dirt roads.


About 5 years ago we switched over to 32mm Schwalbe Marathon (standard), and have several thousand miles using them. We have ridden them on one self contained
tour that included over 400 miles of dirt and gravel roads and trails. It also included 500 miles of cobble and sett stone roads. We use this tire when we are unsure of the conditions we will encounter or expect rougher conditions than generally encountered on most paved road tours.

I have also used the 35mm Marathon racer. It is a good tire, but it got more flats than the plain Marathon.

A couple of years ago I got 2 pair of Marathon Plus tires by mistake. By the time I realized the mistake, it was too late to return them. I did not want them because of the weight. I sold one pair on CL, and put the other pair on my wife's around town bike. I would not use them on a tour due to their weight, and stiff sidewalls.

Flat tires are not an issue for my wife and me. We have toured close to 18,000 miles in the last 9 years, and have had our share of flat tires. Touring tires are a compromise, and I will not trade off lower weight, good handling charateristics and lower rolling resistance for high puncture resistance. Weight does make a difference.

Heck, my wife can fix a flat tire with the best of them.

Last edited by Doug64; 09-03-16 at 11:11 PM.
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Old 09-03-16, 10:50 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by manapua_man
Wouldn't a derailleur hanger extender work for this too?
I do not know, but the longer cage mtn RD will "wrap" a longer chain which is a real plus when using large gear range setups.

Last edited by Doug64; 09-03-16 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 09-04-16, 03:19 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Timequake
With the amount of money you're spending to retrofit that bike to be a "touring" bike, you could just buy a bike already designed and built for touring.

Fuji Touring
I have been having this very conversation with myself about cost of new bike versus upgrading what I have now. The estimate to do all I want with labor was $841. I can't buy a new bike for that I don't believe. I did consider the fact I could get a new Surly for a $500 more but then I still want my trekker bars and I don't want bar end shifters. I would want to change that as it seems all the new bikes have that. I would still want Schwalbe tires and need a kickstand so that few hundred would go up from there until my $800 is doubled.
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Old 09-06-16, 04:15 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by elizwlsn
I have been having this very conversation with myself about cost of new bike versus upgrading what I have now. The estimate to do all I want with labor was $841. I can't buy a new bike for that I don't believe. I did consider the fact I could get a new Surly for a $500 more but then I still want my trekker bars and I don't want bar end shifters. I would want to change that as it seems all the new bikes have that. I would still want Schwalbe tires and need a kickstand so that few hundred would go up from there until my $800 is doubled.
Yet the link if the post you replied to said the price at Performance Bike of the Fuji Touring is currently $719. Did you even bother to follow the link?

Bar-end shifters for sure, but they are considered to be the most durable of all shifters for extended touring, and the Vittoria Randonneur tyres are pretty good in my book. In fact, I've had a Fuji Touring since about 2000, and it's done more than 60,000km. Sure I've changed it over a period of time, but it still has the original frame and handlebars and shifters.

The Deore components in the linked bike are reasonable and durable and quite easily replaced for a long-term touring bike.

And you still have provided any further information on what your plans actually are...
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Old 09-06-16, 05:40 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
errr, this is tough to accept.

That tire, in 35mm size, is 900g. Thats 31oz per tire.
A PAIR of Vittoria Randonneur Pro folding tires weighs 900g.

It isnt so much about getting faster as being unnecessarily heavy. It just isnt needed. You can have really really good flat protection while also having a tire that doesnt weigh almost 2 pounds.

2 extra pounds of rotational weight is significant. It adds up mile after mile and hour after hour.

Marathon Supreme- half the weight, but almost all the flat protection.

Your argument could basically be adopted to most everything. Well whats an extra 2 pounds on the wheelset?...we arent racing. Well whats an extra 2 pounds on the frame?...we arent racing. Well whats an extra 2 pounds on the racks?...we arent racing. Well whats an extra 2 pounds in each pannier...we arent racing.
Oh hell, i have 16 more pounds on the bike now.
The Marathon Supreme does not have anywhere as near the puncture resistance of the Plus. One only has to hold them both to understand the difference: it's not just the density of the protection fabric weave: the sheer thickness of the Marathon Plus tread means that most objects will not make it through to the inside of the tire. I have never had a flat on Marathon Plus tires. My Supremes flat occasionally.

I only run one Marathon Plus tire. I can't bring myself to install two of those monstrosities. I currently run a Plus in the rear and a Supreme in the front.

I recently wore out a Vittoria Randonneur Hyper. It is a great tire. I had it for so long I was beginning to wonder if it would ever wear out. Moderate weight, great puncture protection. I only had a few flats through its entire life, much better than average.
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Old 09-06-16, 05:51 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Rowan
Yet the link if the post you replied to said the price at Performance Bike of the Fuji Touring is currently $719. Did you even bother to follow the link?

Bar-end shifters for sure, but they are considered to be the most durable of all shifters for extended touring, and the Vittoria Randonneur tyres are pretty good in my book. In fact, I've had a Fuji Touring since about 2000, and it's done more than 60,000km. Sure I've changed it over a period of time, but it still has the original frame and handlebars and shifters.

The Deore components in the linked bike are reasonable and durable and quite easily replaced for a long-term touring bike.

And you still have provided any further information on what your plans actually are...
Rowan, I did look at the link after I responded. Took a minute or two longer for brain to connect it was probably a link about a Fuji that was in fact less expensive.

Anyway, I am going to go ahead with the work on my bike. Even with the great price of the Fuji I would want the brifters and a trekker bar and I would still need a kickstand. I may have been swayed if the tires had been able to be changed to something wider although I have the same brand tire on my bike now and like them. But somewhere, I believe on here, I read you can only go up to 38 on that bike which is exactly what I will be doing on my Specialized. And although it's steel I kind of like that my frame is aluminum. I know it's not considered as great for touring but many have done it successfully and it is lighter. And I like how my bike fits me. I like my bike; I guess that's the bottom line even though it's not perfect. Sometimes it takes a while to work that part out.

So I talked to the guy at the shop yesterday and am going to do everything except the wheels, tires now. He's ordering all the parts and I take it in next Monday. Then I will take it back this winter or early spring for the wheels and tires. I can do some touring on it with the 32 spoke wheels for now. So instead of wheels I spent that money at REI's labor day sale getting my tent, a down bag, a pad and a few other things so I can do a few close to home trips this fall. Still need another set of panniers and I need to order or have them order my front rack but for all intents and purposes I now have or will have my touring bike as want it. I still have one more year before I can leave on a multi month or better yet, multi year trip....waiting for my granddaughter to leave the nest; she's planning on going into the Marines, but in the meantime I can do plenty of multi day trips in Virginia and the surrounding area.
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Old 09-06-16, 06:58 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by elizwlsn
Even with the great price of the Fuji I would want the brifters and a trekker bar and I would still need a kickstand.
By trekking bars, do you mean the bars in the pic below?
If so, the diameter is made for mountain bike components and not road bike...so your STI shifters would be too large for the bar. Probably could shim em, but then you still have the issue of where they would be placed. I am not visualizing this well.

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Old 09-06-16, 07:31 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
By trekking bars, do you mean the bars in the pic below?
If so, the diameter is made for mountain bike components and not road bike...so your STI shifters would be too large for the bar. Probably could shim em, but then you still have the issue of where they would be placed. I am not visualizing this well.

Those are the bars I'm getting but I don't understand why this wouldn't work placed the same place yours are. Here's how they are on the bike now with the existing bars. I would have thought if this couldn't be done the guy that did the estimate and that's been helping me would've said it can't be done but we actually looked at photo's on their computer that showed them as I wanted them while I was there.


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Old 09-06-16, 07:44 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by elizwlsn
Those are the bars I'm getting but I don't understand why this wouldn't work placed the same place yours are. Here's how they are on the bike now with the existing bars. I would have thought if this couldn't be done the guy that did the estimate and that's been helping me would've said it can't be done but we actually looked at photo's on their computer that showed them as I wanted them while I was there.


Ok, what you have on the bike right now arent brifters...at least thats now how that term is typically used. Brifters are STI shifters for road bikes where the brake is also the shifter.
Just a bit of term confusion between us. Whats on your bike now would transfer over to trekking bars without issue.
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Old 09-06-16, 08:02 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Ok, what you have on the bike right now arent brifters...at least thats now how that term is typically used. Brifters are STI shifters for road bikes where the brake is also the shifter.
Just a bit of term confusion between us. Whats on your bike now would transfer over to trekking bars without issue.
Sorry, glad to know they will work even if I don't know exactly what to call them. I'm REALLY excited to get my new bars!
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Old 09-06-16, 08:02 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
errr, this is tough to accept.

That tire, in 35mm size, is 900g. Thats 31oz per tire.
A PAIR of Vittoria Randonneur Pro folding tires weighs 900g.

It isnt so much about getting faster as being unnecessarily heavy. It just isnt needed. You can have really really good flat protection while also having a tire that doesnt weigh almost 2 pounds.

2 extra pounds of rotational weight is significant. It adds up mile after mile and hour after hour.

Marathon Supreme- half the weight, but almost all the flat protection.

Your argument could basically be adopted to most everything. Well whats an extra 2 pounds on the wheelset?...we arent racing. Well whats an extra 2 pounds on the frame?...we arent racing. Well whats an extra 2 pounds on the racks?...we arent racing. Well whats an extra 2 pounds in each pannier...we arent racing.
Oh hell, i have 16 more pounds on the bike now.
+ 1. Unless touring in the third world in really rough conditions, I'd get the pasela protite tires or other reasonably flat proof but not super heavy tire to tour on. You can bring a spare and the weight will still be considerably less than 2 of the schwalbes.

I'm running pasela pretties on one of my bikes. They're fine tires. They strike a nice compromise between flat protection and weight and they handle well.
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Old 09-06-16, 08:18 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by bikemig
+ 1. Unless touring in the third world in really rough conditions, I'd get the pasela protite tires or other reasonably flat proof but not super heavy tire to tour on. You can bring a spare and the weight will still be considerably less than 2 of the schwalbes.

I'm running pasela pretties on one of my bikes. They're fine tires. They strike a nice compromise between flat protection and weight and they handle well.
I have had my heart set on the Schwalbe's but after reading everything everyone has said and pondering on it a while I think you and everyone else is right about that and when the time comes that's what I plan to do. I don't need to carry anymore weight than I have to. That's why I'm kind of glad to be sticking with an aluminum bike. At 65 carrying a load on a bike is job enough without adding more just because.
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Old 09-06-16, 08:21 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by elizwlsn
I have had my heart set on the Schwalbe's but after reading everything everyone has said and pondering on it a while I think you and everyone else is right about that and when the time comes that's what I plan to do. I don't need to carry anymore weight than I have to. That's why I'm kind of glad to be sticking with an aluminum bike. At 65 carrying a load on a bike is job enough without adding more just because.
OR get the schwalbe supreme touring which are reasonably light but they are expensive. 2 of them will cost more than 3 of the pasela protite tires. Touring chews up tires and I don't like super expensive touring tires. YMMV.
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Old 09-06-16, 08:32 AM
  #44  
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These are the tires on it now. I may just see how it goes doing a few trips with it loaded with the 32 spoke wheels and these tires and if all goes well maybe I won't even need the new wheels and tires.



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Old 09-06-16, 11:08 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by elizwlsn
Rowan, I did look at the link after I responded. Took a minute or two longer for brain to connect it was probably a link about a Fuji that was in fact less expensive.

Anyway, I am going to go ahead with the work on my bike. Even with the great price of the Fuji I would want the brifters and a trekker bar and I would still need a kickstand. I may have been swayed if the tires had been able to be changed to something wider although I have the same brand tire on my bike now and like them. But somewhere, I believe on here, I read you can only go up to 38 on that bike which is exactly what I will be doing on my Specialized. And although it's steel I kind of like that my frame is aluminum. I know it's not considered as great for touring but many have done it successfully and it is lighter. And I like how my bike fits me. I like my bike; I guess that's the bottom line even though it's not perfect. Sometimes it takes a while to work that part out.

So I talked to the guy at the shop yesterday and am going to do everything except the wheels, tires now. He's ordering all the parts and I take it in next Monday. Then I will take it back this winter or early spring for the wheels and tires. I can do some touring on it with the 32 spoke wheels for now. So instead of wheels I spent that money at REI's labor day sale getting my tent, a down bag, a pad and a few other things so I can do a few close to home trips this fall. Still need another set of panniers and I need to order or have them order my front rack but for all intents and purposes I now have or will have my touring bike as want it. I still have one more year before I can leave on a multi month or better yet, multi year trip....waiting for my granddaughter to leave the nest; she's planning on going into the Marines, but in the meantime I can do plenty of multi day trips in Virginia and the surrounding area.
You could gave purchased a REI Rondaneer touring bike for $788 on sale.
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Old 09-06-16, 11:27 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Doug64
You could gave purchased a REI Rondaneer touring bike for $788 on sale.
All they have available is the xxl and it is the same issue as with the fuji. I like my shifters and don't want bar end unless I have absolutely no other choice and I want trekker bars which all adds up to more money. The fuji wasn't available in my size either and the Rondaneer is aluminum just like mine is. Without doing the wheels at least for now I'm getting what I want for under $600 and it is just what I want. Maybe I do the wheels in the fall or next spring if I'm having problems. If not great. I got what I want for under $600. That buys me plenty of time to decide on which bike I really want to buy new.
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Old 09-06-16, 10:44 PM
  #47  
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I understand. Because of the size availability it does not really matter. However, the Randonee ( I spelled it wrong earlier) is a steel frame bike. IMO it is on a par or even a little better than LHT.

As far as wheels are concerned, I would go with the 32 spoked wheels until they start giving you trouble. I rode across the country, and several other tours using 32 spoke wheels. I was carrying front panniers on all the tours. Due to an accident I replaced the 32 spoke wheels with 36 spoke wheels, but that was not the original wheels' fault. This summer on a tour I damaged my front wheel and had to replace it with about 1000 miles left to go. The only wheel I could get was a 32 spoke wheel, and it did a good job. If you are relatively light weight, and are not carrying heavy loads, your 32 spoke wheels should do fine.

I also prefer the STI shifter

Good luck with your build. There is a lot of satisfaction in building a bike from the frame up.
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Old 09-07-16, 04:39 AM
  #48  
elizwlsn
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Originally Posted by Doug64
I understand. Because of the size availability it does not really matter. However, the Randonee ( I spelled it wrong earlier) is a steel frame bike. IMO it is on a par or even a little better than LHT.

As far as wheels are concerned, I would go with the 32 spoked wheels until they start giving you trouble. I rode across the country, and several other tours using 32 spoke wheels. I was carrying front panniers on all the tours. Due to an accident I replaced the 32 spoke wheels with 36 spoke wheels, but that was not the original wheels' fault. This summer on a tour I damaged my front wheel and had to replace it with about 1000 miles left to go. The only wheel I could get was a 32 spoke wheel, and it did a good job. If you are relatively light weight, and are not carrying heavy loads, your 32 spoke wheels should do fine.

I also prefer the STI shifter

Good luck with your build. There is a lot of satisfaction in building a bike from the frame up.
I went back and looked at the specs on that and it is pretty much all I wanted with the exception of the shifters and the trekker bars. Don't know where I got it being aluminum. I had initially gone to Rei to look at the Safari because it had the trekker bars but they didn't have my size and they said they were having problems with fitting it to people because it had too much reach to it. They too suggested the Rondonee but then were not helpful finding my size in the store and I ended up leaving without trying it. Wish I had now. I guess I gave up looking too hard because I hear changing out shifters was very expensive. Did a search on this board about bar end shifters to see if it's just me and it seems to be a hot issue for a number of us.
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