Why do people want 1x???
01-12-18, 02:05 AM
#76
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I could imagine a 10-42 for bikepacking with the right size chainring, but for bikepacking/loaded touring I would prefer a wider ranger, unless you ONLY use your bike loaded with gear.
01-12-18, 10:07 AM
#77
Non omnino gravis
Ummm... what? You are aware of how gears work, yes? A 42T chainring with an 11-36 cassette gets lower than most anything you will see on a 2X road/gravel bike. To get lower, you'd need a triple or an MTB crankset. I run a 44T with an 11-42 cassette and climb 400k feet a year. The shortcoming in the 1X comes at the bottom of the cassette, not at the top. And that limitation is only on the superhumans that populate BF-- as 44/11 @ 90rpm is 29mph-- but plenty for mere mortals.
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01-12-18, 11:04 AM
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Ummm... what? You are aware of how gears work, yes? A 42T chainring with an 11-36 cassette gets lower than most anything you will see on a 2X road/gravel bike. To get lower, you'd need a triple or an MTB crankset. I run a 44T with an 11-42 cassette and climb 400k feet a year. The shortcoming in the 1X comes at the bottom of the cassette, not at the top. And that limitation is only on the superhumans that populate BF-- as 44/11 @ 90rpm is 29mph-- but plenty for mere mortals.
I'm not saying that 1x can't work for bikepacking because it definitely can, but your 2x claim is just wrong. 42/36 is about the same as probably the most common low gear on a road bike - 34/28. However, plenty of 48/32 and 46/30 cranksets are coming on these bikes paired with 11-32, 11-34, or 11-36 cassette. To match the lowest of these gears you would need a 30 tooth chainring, and I think even a 'mortal' rider would find 30/11 too low as a top gear.
A 10-42 (or 44 with third party replacement cog) paired with a chain ring somewhere in the 36-42 range is a much better option.
01-12-18, 12:02 PM
#79
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Nice response, thanks!
I guess it comes down to speed.
I can do most everything I need on a 2x with a 36t ring. But when I need the big ring, I need it - or I get dropped. So, no real drawback to having two options up front.
Personally, I tend to pick the chain ring for the ride. Although when I see 1x mountain bike people trying to choose their chainring, I get flashbacks to the PITA of using a wrench to chainging gears on a Fixed gear bike.
I do tend to believe the people that say "its about the same" more than those that say "way better" I haven't seen a "way better" argument.
(I know this is cyclocross and gravel - but there isn't one category for 1 bike to rule them all - but that is how a lot of people use this kind of bike. N-1!)
Andy and BlewsDawg - I really appreciated your input.
I feel like most people just don't understand the triple mindset. Or maybe it just doesn't appeal to them. I use a triple very much the way everyone else uses a 1xN setup, except I've got a couple of aces in the hole. I do almost all of my riding on the middle ring and then use the small ring as a bailout gear and the big ring when I really want to hammer. I choose my cassette for the gear range I want with the middle ring.
Long live the triple!!!
I guess it comes down to speed.
I can do most everything I need on a 2x with a 36t ring. But when I need the big ring, I need it - or I get dropped. So, no real drawback to having two options up front.
Personally, I tend to pick the chain ring for the ride. Although when I see 1x mountain bike people trying to choose their chainring, I get flashbacks to the PITA of using a wrench to chainging gears on a Fixed gear bike.
I do tend to believe the people that say "its about the same" more than those that say "way better" I haven't seen a "way better" argument.
(I know this is cyclocross and gravel - but there isn't one category for 1 bike to rule them all - but that is how a lot of people use this kind of bike. N-1!)
Andy and BlewsDawg - I really appreciated your input.
I feel like most people just don't understand the triple mindset. Or maybe it just doesn't appeal to them. I use a triple very much the way everyone else uses a 1xN setup, except I've got a couple of aces in the hole. I do almost all of my riding on the middle ring and then use the small ring as a bailout gear and the big ring when I really want to hammer. I choose my cassette for the gear range I want with the middle ring.
Long live the triple!!!
1X is simpler, lighter, visually cleaner and slightly less expensive than 2X. If the gearing range and the jumps between gears matches your terrain, intended use, physical capabilities and your preferences, it is great.
I can't imagine ever going back to 2X on my mountain bike. With a 28T chainring and a 11-46 11 speed cassette, I have all range I need for the often hilly singletrack trails I ride.
But it won't work for me on my road bike or my gravel bike. I cannot devise a 1X setup that gives me low enough gears for the steep hills I often encounter while also providing tall enough gears for the flat and downhill sections, especially on paved roads. The gaps between gears, while no problem for me with trail riding, are much more of an issue at the higher speeds of road riding, paved or not.
But I can totally see how 1X could work just fine for someone else with stronger legs and/or less varied terrain than what I typically encounter. It's an individual thing. What works or doesn't work for someone else really doesn't matter.
I can't imagine ever going back to 2X on my mountain bike. With a 28T chainring and a 11-46 11 speed cassette, I have all range I need for the often hilly singletrack trails I ride.
But it won't work for me on my road bike or my gravel bike. I cannot devise a 1X setup that gives me low enough gears for the steep hills I often encounter while also providing tall enough gears for the flat and downhill sections, especially on paved roads. The gaps between gears, while no problem for me with trail riding, are much more of an issue at the higher speeds of road riding, paved or not.
But I can totally see how 1X could work just fine for someone else with stronger legs and/or less varied terrain than what I typically encounter. It's an individual thing. What works or doesn't work for someone else really doesn't matter.
01-12-18, 12:06 PM
#80
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I see that "gear inches" confuses some people here.
To keep it simple, one tooth on the chain ring is roughly 3 on the cog.
Thus, for a 42T chainring to match a 36T chainring, on a low gear, the cassette will have to have 2 additional teeth. Not a huge difference...
To keep it simple, one tooth on the chain ring is roughly 3 on the cog.
Thus, for a 42T chainring to match a 36T chainring, on a low gear, the cassette will have to have 2 additional teeth. Not a huge difference...
01-12-18, 12:25 PM
#81
Banned
, 1 by is Trendy,
so you will be able to sell it without much difficulty..
01-12-18, 12:31 PM
#82
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According to your rule, 36/28 should be about the same as 42/30. It's actually closer to 42/33.
The 3:1 rule applies where the chainrings are about 3 times bigger than the cogs, in the higher parts of the range: 36/12 is the same as 42/14.
01-12-18, 01:53 PM
#83
Full Member
Ummm... what? You are aware of how gears work, yes? A 42T chainring with an 11-36 cassette gets lower than most anything you will see on a 2X road/gravel bike. To get lower, you'd need a triple or an MTB crankset. I run a 44T with an 11-42 cassette and climb 400k feet a year. The shortcoming in the 1X comes at the bottom of the cassette, not at the top. And that limitation is only on the superhumans that populate BF-- as 44/11 @ 90rpm is 29mph-- but plenty for mere mortals.
That's why I wrote "not enough RANGE", and "spinning out OR grinding up climbs".I also just switched from 11-36 to 10-42.
Nowadays 34-32 is very common on plain road bikes, and now there are factory options for 34-34 aka 1:1 (i'm very good at maths), and some manufacturers are coming out with cranksets like 48-32 or 46-30.
42:36 is a gear ratio of 1.17.
34:32: is 1.06.
...
Yeah.
I don't want to get into a pointless internet argument so i'll change my comment. In my personal opinion (!) an 11-36 cassette with a single chainring is too much of a compromise in terms of range (and personally I have more fun on my bike with a 10-42) for hilly terrain. This is especially true for a bikepacking bike where sometimes you ride with a load, or maybe sometimes without any load. Unless you swap chainrings, but then you have to swap chains too to maintain a perfect chain length.
Last edited by Facanh; 01-12-18 at 01:57 PM.
01-12-18, 03:14 PM
#84
Full Member
both right and wrong
This really makes me sad. I love triples.
I feel like most people just don't understand the triple mindset. Or maybe it just doesn't appeal to them. I use a triple very much the way everyone else uses a 1xN setup, except I've got a couple of aces in the hole. I do almost all of my riding on the middle ring and then use the small ring as a bailout gear and the big ring when I really want to hammer. I choose my cassette for the gear range I want with the middle ring.
The "equivalent" range argument just doesn't hold water when you look at it like this. Suppose I've got a 50/39/26 crankset with an 11-34 cassette. Using just the 39T ring I've got a range from 32 to 100 gear inches, but when I hit that 32 inch gear and I need a little more help, I can drop to the small ring and go as low as 21 inches. And when I top out on the 39x11 gear and want a little more, I can pop up to the big ring and go as high as 128 inches. I've got the simplicity of a one ring setup, but I've got a LOT more range. What kind of cassette is going to give you this range with a 1x? Even 10x50 doesn't get you there, and if it did (say I'm only comparing to a 50/39/30) I'd have fully one third of my cogs used for parts of the range that I rarely use.
Long live the triple!!!
I feel like most people just don't understand the triple mindset. Or maybe it just doesn't appeal to them. I use a triple very much the way everyone else uses a 1xN setup, except I've got a couple of aces in the hole. I do almost all of my riding on the middle ring and then use the small ring as a bailout gear and the big ring when I really want to hammer. I choose my cassette for the gear range I want with the middle ring.
The "equivalent" range argument just doesn't hold water when you look at it like this. Suppose I've got a 50/39/26 crankset with an 11-34 cassette. Using just the 39T ring I've got a range from 32 to 100 gear inches, but when I hit that 32 inch gear and I need a little more help, I can drop to the small ring and go as low as 21 inches. And when I top out on the 39x11 gear and want a little more, I can pop up to the big ring and go as high as 128 inches. I've got the simplicity of a one ring setup, but I've got a LOT more range. What kind of cassette is going to give you this range with a 1x? Even 10x50 doesn't get you there, and if it did (say I'm only comparing to a 50/39/30) I'd have fully one third of my cogs used for parts of the range that I rarely use.
Long live the triple!!!
01-12-18, 03:35 PM
#85
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I don’t understand this “1x mountain bike people trying to choose their chain ring” thing.
Whether running 2x or 1x I chose my rings and only changed them when they wear out.
Of the hundreds of MTB folks that I know and have ridden with, I have never seen anyone changing a chain ring for a particular ride.
Whether running 2x or 1x I chose my rings and only changed them when they wear out.
Of the hundreds of MTB folks that I know and have ridden with, I have never seen anyone changing a chain ring for a particular ride.
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01-12-18, 06:07 PM
#86
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I currently have Ultegra 6800 and for the longest time I was against, and I still am for most use cases. The gaps between ratios are too big in something like a 10-42 cassette necessary to produce a similar range to 2x.
But living in Illinois there just isn't enough elevation change to use more than one ring. And I'm tired of the FD trimming. I was thinking of getting Di2 for the auto-trim feature, but then realized that 1x would get the job done fine while being simpler (and cheaper) than an electronic system.
But living in Illinois there just isn't enough elevation change to use more than one ring. And I'm tired of the FD trimming. I was thinking of getting Di2 for the auto-trim feature, but then realized that 1x would get the job done fine while being simpler (and cheaper) than an electronic system.
01-13-18, 02:48 AM
#87
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Although I don't race, and don't do serious group rides. So I guess it works for some people.
01-13-18, 08:43 AM
#88
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I hear this a bunch but i've been running 1x10 with an 11-36 cassette and now switched to an 11spd 10-42 cassette. I thought about it and I can't remember even one instance when I was riding, changed gear, and thought "wish I had a smaller gap there". Although I don't race, and don't do serious group rides. So I guess it works for some people.
Although I don't race, and don't do serious group rides. So I guess it works for some people.My 11-32 has gaps already too big for me.
01-13-18, 09:10 AM
#89
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I've tried a few 5-8 year old road bikes with triples and 11-25 cassettes, now those setups were horrible to use.
01-13-18, 01:29 PM
#90
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04-19-18, 12:55 PM
#91
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Thanks for the input. I ended up purchasing 2x because I need to optimize my cadence (racing or just a fast club ride) and to be able to pull hard at a high speed. Not being able to do either one of those and I'll get dropped. Generally on gravel and single track, I'm in the 36t chain ring (and 40c tires), and I'm in the 46t chain ring doing a fast road ride (30c tires). Doing a hard pull on a 11t cog just doesn't seem wise either. Besides, the 2x was a lighter bike (sram rival vs shimano ultegra)
cycingtips.com summed it up well.
cycingtips.com summed it up well.
Will they [gear jumps] be felt on the road? For some riders, the answer is a definite yes, while for others, it may amount to nothing more than a nuance. Ultimately, it will depend on how readily a rider is able to vary their cadence and whether or not they have the freedom to dictate their own pace. For those riders that need to fine-tune their cadence for any given speed (e.g. when racing or time-trialling), such nuances will be important and the benefits can be measured in terms of comfort and efficiency.
04-20-18, 03:11 AM
#92
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04-20-18, 03:53 AM
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I went 11-36 on my MTB and have only ever used 1 chainring.
11-36 on my hybrid and I bought the correct 1x size chainring for it also.
Gear calc, plus knowing ones fitness level, and picking a chainring size is not exactly guess work.
04-20-18, 03:55 AM
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I'd liken a a bail out gear (2x) to a baby pacifier. Not exactly the real thing, but they do stop the crying.
04-20-18, 04:36 AM
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My 10yr old road bike has 10sp Ultegra and the front shifting is terrible. My new cx bike has 11sp 105 and the front shifting is amazing. A light tap and it’s flawless every time. So happy I have both chainrings now that the shifting is so good...
04-20-18, 08:17 AM
#96
Non omnino gravis
Gear spacing on a 1X is only noticeable if you're trying to keep pace with someone faster than you are. As someone who rides solo 90% of the time, I'm never bothered by the gear spacing.
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04-20-18, 08:48 AM
#97
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Advertized trends create demand... SRAM is pushing 1 by stuff hard, closed down their IGH production..
I have chosen differently I like IGH, I skipped over the 'i got more speeds on my cassette than you do' game..
But cope with it in my shop jobs.. those 10-42t cassettes are only seeming a good deal until you wear 1 out and have to open your wallet replace it...
in a mid drive electric bike you only have 1 chainring. 1 cog on IGH vs a big expensive cassette, with vulnreable ti bending RD .. you pick..
I see the parabolic arc of the cogs diameter increases, are trying to widen gear ratio gaps as they get lower..
an IGH like Rohloff each of the ratios are a % of the next one , so are getting wider by 13.6% going up, narrower going down..
...
I have chosen differently I like IGH, I skipped over the 'i got more speeds on my cassette than you do' game..
But cope with it in my shop jobs.. those 10-42t cassettes are only seeming a good deal until you wear 1 out and have to open your wallet replace it...
in a mid drive electric bike you only have 1 chainring. 1 cog on IGH vs a big expensive cassette, with vulnreable ti bending RD .. you pick..
I see the parabolic arc of the cogs diameter increases, are trying to widen gear ratio gaps as they get lower..
an IGH like Rohloff each of the ratios are a % of the next one , so are getting wider by 13.6% going up, narrower going down..
...
Last edited by fietsbob; 04-20-18 at 08:58 AM.
05-02-18, 02:40 AM
#100
moving target
I run it because when I got the bike I had been been running single speed for 15 years so getting used to shifting and riding took a little bit for me it helped give me a one less thing to think about
