antimonysarah

I rode a 100k perm on a rental Specialized Diverge Comp E5 (not a 2018, but it was definitely that level in the lineup - the nicest aluminum-frame one) -- seemed a perfectly reasonable bike for the job, although I didn't look at its detailed specifications.

I find a lightweight handlebar bag with lightweight contents is fine on a mid/high trail bike (you've seen my regular brevet bike; it's custom steel but NOT low trail).

Spoonrobot 

The frame and fork are built closer to a touring bike that a road bike. I had thought I would be getting something akin to a road bike in frame tubing/butting just with design elements to take wider tires and low-trail. Instead, the bike is essentially a low-trail touring bike, which doesn't really work as a concept. I found the ride harsh, despite the wide and supple tires, as well as unresponsive and just plain unpleasant to ride. It's a fine bike, just not what I was looking for nor led to believe it would be by the marketing. I replaced it with a low-trail Soma Fog Cutter that is a frame almost 3/4 of a pound lighter, and a fork a half pound lighter. The difference in ride is astounding.

This thread in the 650b google group has a pretty comprehensive overview of thoughts on the Masi as well as discussion of the BQ review: https://groups.google.com/d/topic/65...Tx0/discussion

A handlebar bag with less than 10 pounds doesn't really seem to have much impact on mid/high trail bikes, IMO/E. Riding slowly up steep climbs the bike tends to want to wander but this seems to be something that can be adapted to by the rider and resolved. Other than that the bike will tend to want to flop over a little more leaning into turns and will require slightly more body english and counter-steer to go the same speed through a corner.

unterhausen

I have a traditional rando handlebar bag on a high trail bike and it works okay. Possibly works better than a totally unloaded low trail bike.

Richard Cranium

Has anyone discerned what specific bicycle specifications are important for a brevet-style cycling event? I just wanted someone to describe what the differences are between a "touring bike and a "rando bike" ............

I just wonder why anyone makes a distinction?

kingston 

The issue with defining a "rando bike" is that each individual's needs and preferences for what they want in a rando bike are different, could even be different by distance for the same person. That’s why you see all different types of bikes on brevets. Plenty of people ride touring bikes on brevets, but plenty of people ride race bikes and every other kind of bike too. Just about any bike can be a "rando bike".

Happy Feet

I think Kingston is correct in that any bike pretty well can be a rando bike

But if one were to try to generalize between that and a traditional touring bike (with panniers) I might say:

Same relaxed geometry

Same eyelets for fenders

Not as much need for rear rack eyelets though mid fork front eyelets for a front bag rack might be wanted.

Same desire for bars with choice of multiple hand positions.

No need for extra robust build to carry touring weight

No need for very low granny gearing.

No need for third water bottle bosses.

May have same desire for dynohub to power lights

I think that's it.

rhm

I agree wholeheartedly with what @kingston said.

Nonetheless, while any bike can be used as a randonneuring bike (just as any bike can be used as a touring bike, or a cyclocross bike, etc) I think most of us would recognise a certain type of bike as a Randonneuring Bike, and a certain (small) proportion of randonneurs actually use them on randonees.

With that in mind, the distinguishing features of a Randonneuring Bike frame would include geometry that prioritizes comfort over speed while being unaffected by a moderate front load; clearances for relatively wide tires; and attachment points for fenders and other accessories.

​​​​​​ Some riders consciously combine the above features with a stylistic homage to French Randonneuring bicycles of the last century. I don't suppose mass market designers have that in mind, but some of the component suppliers (Compass, Velo Orange) definitely do, and this inevitably affects the result.

Spoonrobot 

The previous posts are all great answers but I have one too

Pertinent things for me are that a touring bike is going to be built with stiff tubing/butting and is designed to ride better with a load (flex/planing) than without one. For randonneuring bikes I think manufacturing designers are just confused - "road bike tubing for mountain bike sized tires???"

You can see it here in the marketing for the Masi - specific callout to the rear rack mounts on the low-trail bike is indicative that the designers did not quite understand what they were doing.


Otherwise randonneuring bikes are pretty well defined as a thing by Jan Heine but this runs into the same issue gravel bikes did. You can ride a brevet on any bike but "what is a randonneuring bike" always gets answer that starts with "I think" in this case for me I think of it as an all-weather stage racing bike capable of carrying a small load. Others have a different concept and since the market is small and custom-focused we can't rely on them to clarify.

Bandera

The classic British "club" designs intended for self supported weekend rides at pace on rough secondary roads in less than perfect weather conditions one weekend and stripped of mudguards, bags and with the "sprint" wheels fitted to contest the club TT the next have met those requirements for many decades and are still produced today, like this Audax model from Bob Jackson.

Audax End-End | Bob Jackson Cycles

-Bandera

Spoonrobot 

I've seen your recommendation for Audax bikes before and did look at a few models from Wiggle/Planet X but I was not impressed with their disc brake offerings so I just went and put together my own. A road bike designed for 700cx28mm tires with mudguards is just about perfect for 650bx42 IMO.

unterhausen

I agree, they don't quite get it. I have no idea who is designing bikes for Masi. There is a lot of confusion about the difference between randonneuring and touring. Maybe the customers for these bikes can't make up their mind, who knows?

There are a lot of "all-road" bikes that would make a lot better rando bikes if they just had a longer rake. It seems like the real thing missing from a modern rando bike is that there are no carbon forks that will give you low trail. I think that's unfortunate, and not likely to change any time soon unless someone pays for the development. Never know if that will happen.

As it is, companies are just slapping a 45-50mm on every bike.

Amitoj

Hey Sarah! Thanks for stopping by. I am surely going to try out the Diverge Comp E5 before i make a purchase.

Hmmm... I wonder if the Breezer Doppler Team will also be similar. It does seem to be slightly better equipped than the Masi SR
I can't seem to find much discussion on the Doppler on the web though

Spoonrobot 

Look closely at the diameter of the fork as it tapers down to the dropouts and note the weight - 29.5 pounds. Do you live near a Performance Bike? They are a stock item at the one in Atlanta, Georgia right now.

Amitoj

Does it matter that I am 6'2" and weigh 190lbs? Asking whether my extra weight will force some flex

I would love to visit Georgia but that would be one long plan. I am in the northeastern part of the country, in New Hampshire.

kingston 

Starting with a bare frame is really the only way to go if you have some experience and are particular about anything. Getting a complete bike is always going to be a compromise.

Amitoj

Sigh.
Looks like the next best thing for me to do is to get the Diverge (if test ride is successful), ride the hell out of it and when it is time to get another bike, hope that I have time, patience and money to either build it myself or get it custom built.
At least I can test ride the Diverge before I buy it. The Masi is still on its way to the local bike shop but I called them and confirmed that my deposit can be used for the Diverge if I like the bike. They are nice that way.

kingston 

That's what happened to me. I ended up with a bike that checked many but not all of my boxes. Now six seasons later I still haven't seen a complete bike I like better for me than the one I have, and I'm reluctant to build a new bike because it will be expensive and not all that different from the one I already have. The nice thing is that you have narrowed down the choices to a few good ones.

pdlamb

If you start with a good frame, why not incrementally upgrade parts until you've got your dream bike? Sure, change the saddle and pedals to your favorite when you get the bike, then ride it a couple years. A wheelset here (now you've got a spare wheelset), better derailer there (spare derailer, anyone?), maybe splurge and swap the bars when it's time to recable and retape, and after a few more years, you've got that dream bike.

Or are your tastes as fickle as Buycycling's reviews?

kingston 

Richard Cranium

The Masi marketing clip apparently tries to sell "adventure" cycling as Randoneuring. I don't know - maybe rando riding is just an adventure - but "brevet riding" does include time checks and some semblance of cycling performance.

Using 650s on an all-paved bicycle route is a considerable performance hit I doubt i would tolerate. At the same time i would love to use 650s or a 26" wheel if was adventure touring across a mix of roads and trails.

Anyway - there are plenty of useful comments already stated above - and I so I will offer ad an adjunct - My "perspectives" having to with theoretical or logical application of bicycling gear selection.

Anyone wanting to satisfy their cycling equipment needs to assess their target load before deciding on things like frame type and wheel size. A big guy - that wants to carry the kitchen sink can hardly use the same equipment as Marco Pantani, with a wind jacket and a bag of e-caps.

In every case - selecting equipment will be a compromise between cost, reliability and applicability to general or specific consideration of cycling. Why is that guy riding a carbon frame with an integrated headset while mounting a handlebar bag across his head tube? I don't know.

kingston 

I rode a 600k over the weekend with 23 riders and noticed 3 gravel bikes; a Seven custom, Trek Checkpoint and a Salsa Warbird, so it seems like gravel bikes are becoming more of a thing on long brevets. The Trek and Salsa were ridden by very experienced randonneurs who were just trying something different and were both pretty happy with the ride. The guy on the Checkpoint had never ridden wide tires before and couldn't believe how fast his 38mm Compass tires were.

clasher

If I didn't already have a bunch of capable bikes for randonneuring I would probably consider a gravel bike for randonneuring... I am especially intrigued by the newest iteration of the salsa warbird coming out, apparently it's setup for dynamo wiring. Fender mounts, 3 water bottle cage mounts and a couple of other bikepacking type mounts. The frame prices on the higher end ones are pretty spendy though.

unterhausen

the new warbird looks like a really capable rando bike. All I could ask for is more rake. The fork is going to be available by itself, so I might get one.

There is a long-standing bias that bigger tires are slower. They will keep you from accelerating quite as fast, because they are heavier. But rolling resistance is the most important thing for long distance, and bigger tires can have lower rolling resistance than smaller tires. And I find that flats really slow me down.

Amitoj

Alright, so here is an update.
Last Sunday I test rode the Diverge Comp E5 over a 10 mile route with more than 700 ft of elevation. I found the bike quite comfortable, with enough gears to tackle the climbing.
Only thing I didn't like about the bike was the color. It had the same anthracite/black-ish kind of color that my CAADX had. The other color option on the bike, turquoise/black looked more attractive to me, which they do have in my size in their warehouse. So, I hope to get that one this weekend. I feel it will be in good company with my other bike, which is an old Bianchi in celeste green.
I have asked the bike shop to fit fenders as well. I will buy a handlebar bag and a saddlebag when I go to pick it up.
Thanks for all your helpful comments and tips!

Btw, I came across an ad on craigslist about a bike with Soma frame that had everything I was looking for. Fenders, fat tires, generator hub, the works. Except, it was not in my size Oh well, another time maybe.

rhm

It might be a good idea to buy that, if the price is right. Move the wheels, lights, and fenders to another bike when you find the right one.