DZTandem

It is time to buy a new Tandem & we could use some help in decision making. We have owned a Santana Arriva for 14 years. We are planning to start traveling with our tandem and want to purchase a bike with Couplers.

Captain is an avid Road & Mountain Cyclist - middle of the pack racer. The majority of my yearly miles are on a single.
Stoker is a strong athlete and much prefers the tandem to a single bike. Most of her yearly miles are on the tandem.
Team weight 280-290 lbs.

The tandem blends our ability levels and lets us ride together.
We have entered the local TT series on our tandem, but the majority of our rides are recreational & touring.
We live in Colorado & spend lots of time riding in the mountains.

We have narrowed it down to a Co-motion Speedster or Supremo. Have dreams about a Calfee, but it's too much for our budget.
Both size small with Couplers, Rolfs, & Belt. Rear disk on the Supremo, Dual disk on the Speedster.

I was amazed by the quickness into corners and maneuverability of the Co-motions versus our Arriva. The Santana always felt like it wanted to track straighter than my preferred line into corners. It was always incredibly stable, but it certainly prefered to go straight. The Co-motions felt a lot more like my single road bike.

Both bikes felt great on the test rides.

It was difficult for me to discern significant performance differences between the two bikes.

My wife / stoker commented that she felt the Supremo felt more responsive to my steering inputs and more "efficient". She could not put it into more specific words, but she preferred the Supremo.
Not sure if these differences were due to the order we test rode the bikes (Supremo was 2nd) or if it was due to the bikes themselves.
Being a bike geek I like the carbon bars, cranks... on the Supremo, but not sure its worth the extra cost.

If anyone out there has experience with both the Speedster & Supremo please give us your thoughts. Other than reduced weight due to the carbon bars / cranks, BB30, and some 'better' components has anyone noticed improved ride or performance of either bike? Any specific reason that one bike stands out.
Thanks for any help!

PeFSQ

Sorry for not providing a first-hand experience reply. From the published Co-motion geometry, there seems to be a difference in fork rake and the chainstay length for the two models. As a race tandem, the Supremo's steering should be more adapted to high speeds (the lower fork rake) and have a better acceleration. Although we are not in the market for a new tandem this year, your question was in my mind for the hypothetical future replacement for our Co-mo Primera. I am very interested to see some experience-based replies. Sorry for adding questions, but do you (or anyone) have an idea what are currently the approximate cost differences on the Supremo vs Calfee Tetra + Ultegra built, all with the S+S couplers?

Monoborracho

A lot would depend upon wheels, cranks, and components. I would imagine the difference is probably about $3000 between the two built up bikes, figuring $5000 or so for components.



Tetra FRAME w/ couplers $8200
Dragonfly FRAME w/couplers $10,300

Supremo COMPLETE w/ couplers $9900

and for reference

Seven Ti Axiom FRAME w/ couplers $10,800

Co-Motion doesn't list frame only prices on their website, you have to call.

TandemGeek

Just some observations about these great tandems....

It depends on how the Speedster was configured: did it have the dual discs with a steel or carbon fork. Standard wheels with 28mm tires or Rolf's with 25mm tires? More on that in a minute.

Let's assume stock bikes without upgrades: While it could have been the order in which they were ridden, the mere fact that y'all are an experienced tandem team would suggest that you didn't have to go through enough of a learning curve to make the differences feel that pronounced to your stoker. Your initial impressions were spot on for what most folks who are attentive to how their tandems handle and steer when going from something like a Santana to a Co-Motion given the differences in design philosophy. Again, assuming you rode stock bikes, putting you on the Speedster first was a good move... as it made for a nice segue to the Supremo. Now, to those differences that your stoker experienced.

The standard steel fork that Co-Motion uses on the Speedster has 50mm of rake, whereas their carbon forks use 44mm... including the one that they fit to their Supremo. The shorter rake / longer steering trail on the Supremo would have been noticable switching between the two bikes, especially by your stoker if they have a good feel for what the bike's doing. If the Speedster had a carbon fork, chances are there were still some handling differences coming from the different tires and wheels that come on these two different tandems, both in terms of their weight and lateral stiffness, never mind the stock tires which are very different between the two bikes.

Bottom Line: If the two tandems had been fitted with the same wheels, tires and forks the handling differences would have likely been very, very subtle.

Other differences: The slightly longer stays on the Speedster don't have the same influence on handling that they do on single bikes; call it noise level since any added compliance is nil given how beefy the stays are on a Co-Motion. The longer stays are more about letting you fit mud guards, larger tires and a little more heel room for panniers than performance. [Edit: Had a senior moment. As Wayne notes, frame material between the Speedster & Supremo is the same UNLESS one of them has S&S couplers].

Can't go wrong with either one. And, with Co-Motion, you really are paying for what you get. You can typically back-out the upgraded cost of the go-fast parts or frame material/fabrication on their higher-end tandem and find that they don't upcharge for "prestige" or other intangibles. The Speedster is a more flexible tandem in that it's a do-it-all tandem that can be fitted for touring or stripped for a time trail, which can be of benefit to folks who don't "collect" tandems, i.e., if you plan on keeping your Santana it would certainly be a great touring tandem to compliment your new Co-Motion.

waynesulak

We decided on a Speedster over the Supremo in 2006 because my conversations with CoMotion revealed they use the same steel 631 tubeset except the stays for more rear tire clearance. The stiffness of the main frame should be identical. Later in 2011 happen to correspond with CoMotion again and they were still using the same tube set on both tandems. The Primera however uses different tubes.

We felt we were getting a great frame with the Speedster that could be configured with wide tires or almost as racy as the Supremo depending on the component selection. Brake selection (V-bake vs caliper) was one big difference due to the tire clearance.

I agree that the Fork first then the wheels and tires will make up most of the difference in feel.

TandemGeek

Thanks for catching my screw up.

Primera, Mocha and both the Speedster & Supremo with S&S couplers use Reynolds 725.

Non-coupled Speedster & Supremo use Reynolds 631.

Sprout97 

I can't speak to the Supremo or the S&S impressions, but I can comment on the Speedster (8600 mi. +). The Speedster is certainly a better handler than Santana (though Santana is probably a better loaded touring bike). When we test-rode both the Speedster & the Santana (don't recall the specific model), the Speedster felt my Cannondale single in the agility department (wheel base notwithstanding). The Santana felt like a truck, very ponderous in the turns. As others have already noted, the Co-Motion is a very good value for what you get. As far as upgrades, that's more of an individual preference. Ditto for the content on the bikes out of the box. All that said, we all know that we must do whatever to make the stoker happy.

waynesulak

It seems to fall to me to give an alternate opinion on Santana. We started on a Speedster and I have to agree it is a great bike and we enjoyed all of our 12,000+ miles on it. Heck my Avatar is us riding that Speedster. After trying a Santana however we now have two and have sold our Speedster. Both great bikes but I find the handling on a Santana to be different, but in my case actually be better than the CoMotion. After a learning curve, I find that I can take the same corners faster than on the Speedster.

CoMotions handle more like most singles and that is part of their appeal. Santanas do handle differently than singles which I believe prevents many from adapting to a different style of bike.

Both are good bikes but when taking a 90+ degree corner at the bottom of a hill I would rather be on a Santana. I know that I am in the minority but that's OK.

tandem rider

My suggestion is to call Co-Motion and talk to them about your needs. I have always found them helpful and straight shooters with my questions.