SamSpade1941 

Aside from the fact I’m over weight well into middle age at this point and quite frankly not at physical peak any more ... I have found that over the last five years since embracing cycling .. that I’ve had a horrible time finding a bike that really fits me , a lot of this is due to my odd proportions . I stand right at 6ft tall but have really short legs and a long torso . In fact if you use an online bike size calculator I should probably ride a 54 cm , but I end up feeling likes I’m on a bike that is too small. When I step up to a 55 or a 56 depending on bike maker wow the top tube is about the right size but then I’m dealing with seat adjustment issues as in depending on the bike it’s a challenge to get the seat height right and it’s nearly impossible on a 57cm bike even though I find the top tube to be comfortable .

So I am seriously considering paying the $190 for a bike fit and then having a bike frame built for me.

I know I am probably screwing up asking this question on a forum because I will in all likely hood get a lot of advise I didn’t ask for .. but here we go anyway..

does anyone else here have a similar body proportion issue?

If so did a bike fit end up being useful to you and either help you dial in existing bikes you own? Help you find the right production bike ? Or did you get a custom made bike ?

Thanks so much for the relevant and useful advise,...

ramzilla

It sounds like you're built like me. A wrestlers build. This bike would fit you perfectly:


1988 Centurion LeMans 56cm

SamSpade1941 

@ramzilla I’ll keep that in mind .. I love those 80’s centurions

Hudson308 

Your proportions sound nearly identical to mine. What style of bike are you looking for? I've found a number of frames that have looooong top tubes and short seat tubes, but most of them are hybrids or mountain bikes.
Specifically:

'83 Bianchi Grizzly has a 57cm seat tube, 60cm top tube, 26" wheels.
'85 Raleigh Seneca has a 58cm seat tube, 60cm top tube, 26" wheels.
'89 Centurion Ironman Expert has a 57cm seat tube, 59cm top tube. 700c wheels.
'89 Schwinn Probe has a 52cm seat tube, 58cm top tube. 26" wheels.
'90 Trek 930 Single Track has a 53cm seat tube, 58cm top tube. 26" wheels.
'92 Specialized Crossroads has a 53cm seat tube, 60cm top tube. 700c wheels.
'93 Trek 750 Multitrack has a 55cm seat tube, 58cm top tube. 700c wheels.
'93 Trek 820 has a 55cm seat tube, 58cm top tube. 26" wheels.
'94 Diamondback Parkway has a 56cm seat tube, 61cm top tube. 700c wheels.
'97 GT Slipstream has a 55cm seat tube, 59cm top tube. 700c wheels.

These are usually the largest or next-to-largest frames made for a given model.
Measurements were all taken center-to-center, because seat cluster design differences can greatly affect the seat tube measurement.
Stem height and length can also modify your fit by quite a bit.
There are at least a couple other good threads on frames with long top tubes, short seat tubes.

abshipp 

What is the top tube length you're looking for?

I'm assuming if a typical 57cm frame works well for you top-tube-wise, you are looking for a top tube in the 55-57cm range?

Like @Hudson308 said, you will likely need to look for something that was designed for upright bars with some back sweep. Typically their top tubes are quite a bit longer than something designed for drop bars.

Since you're posting this in C&V, for a new production frame maybe a few of the Rivendell models would be in tune with your sensibilities?

Just poking around there, it looks like maybe the Atlantis or A. Homer Hilsen could work for you?

53cm ST / 57.5cm TT for the former, 54.5cm ST / 57cm TT on the latter. Although Rivendell does have their own particular philosophy on bike size that they detail here.

grayEZrider

With medium torso and very long arms I wound up with this 58cm...

squirtdad

If you are having a custom bike built, i am not sure why you would need a fitting as the custom builder should have an established method for doing that, even or especially remotely. here is an example from Kirk who basically never has someone fitted in his shop Fitting | Kirk Frameworks


I think custom is a good idea and while everyone (especially in budget proud C&V) when you look at prices, a custom frame is often no more than high end frame only from a big bike company https://www.specialized.com/us/en/sh...t=#result-list

canklecat

Also check out the 1980s-early '90s rigid frame/fork mountain bikes and MTB-lite types like the Univega Via Carisma. Longer top tube relative to seat tube.

My Via Carisma is technically a little larger for me. I'm 5'11", the top tube measures 60cm center to center, the seat tube 58cm c-t-c. I like sitting up high because it's my hybridized bike for casual group rides, commutes and errands. But I had to reduce the reach to be comfortable, so I switched from flat to riser to albatross swept bars. Then I swapped stems around to fine tune the reach and bar height.

From there, it's mostly a matter of choosing stems, bars and seat posts that suit your needs. You might also need to swap crank arms. Mine came with 175, just a little long but still comfortable. But when I switch between bikes with 175, 172.5 and 170 crank arms, it takes awhile to adapt to the pedaling feel. If your legs are short relative to your height you might prefer 170 cranks that won't always be installed by default on bikes for 6-footers.

SamSpade1941 

the reason I’d have a bike fit done is because possibly I’m not willing to travel a long distance just to have the builder do it..

would you travel 1,000 miles or more to have the frame builder do a fitting ?

squirtdad

I think that a good builder would not require a personal fitting unless they are really pushing the "boutique, bespoke thing" Builders should have method to deal with remote customers.

the example and link in my first post was in reference to Dave Kirk, who is a highly respected builder in Bozeman MT. who builds for people all over the world. I have brother that lives in Bozeman and in an email suggested that I could do an in person fitting....Dave noted he really had not had that happen and just used the same info as is on his site

StanSeven

If you’re considering custom, I would personally get an expert fit first. Preferably it’s someone like this that does fitting dynamically where fine adjustments are made and analyzed on the spot. Plus you get a sense of how everything feels in that new position for a couple of hours.

https://www.parvillacycles.com/about...logy-pg155.htm

Then you can take the data and see if there’s any off the shelf bike that exists or can be set up to duplicate it.

merziac

@SamSpade1941

So after decades, bike fitting is still far from an exact science. Most of us have figured out what works for us but we've been winging it for a long time.

A bike fit is much more than that, the builder has his own version and only they can apply it to their work as they see "fit".

A fitting is an education by someone who knows far more than we do, they will point out things we have been doing right or wrong despite whatever success we have had.

I would probably never have a build done without a fitting by the builder in person, I want the education face to face, so I get the hands on interaction, can ask question's and understand the answers in real time.

There is much to be learned and often you find out you have been doing something that works for you but can be accomplished another way that gets you closer to what you really want and will cause less problems in the long run.

I vote for the fitting but would have it done by a potential frame builder and then go with them when you decide to pull the trigger.

SamSpade1941 

which is kinda why I have considered going with an expert fitting . One of the LBS ‘s here in town has an expert fitter, it’s $190 to get the fitting done . I figure either way I’ll end up with a bike that works for me whether it’s off the peg or custom made.

SamSpade1941 

@merziac

friend you always have sage advice which is greatly appreciated . I very well may do that if I use a local (Portland) frame builder.

merziac

Well you know me, despite all the great builders elsewhere, PDX is the only option.

So much history, foundation and tradition here, there's good reason why we are and always have been an epicenter.

While many here would not be my choice, they are here with good reason, Vanilla, TiCycles, Breadwinner, Bantam, Ahearne, Igleheart, Norther, MAP, Signal, Pereira and many more.

DiNucci will build you one if you're lucky but is not in PDX and you may be able to get Andy to build you a Strawberry if you are very lucky, not likely.

markwesti

How about a frame that will fit say 54 and then a long stem maybe 180 or more .

StanSeven

That stem goes a long way in meeting to length. If the saddle position could be found via setback, that also helps. Bar position is another thing to deal with and a few other things including quirks with geometry. But often people are sold with custom solutions and the same setup is achieved with stock frames and stems, seat-posts, bars, etc.

Doug Fattic 

Let me explain a bit about why a custom frame is going to be your best option as long as you can afford the cost. Those that sell stock (so that will be the majority of responders) are always going to try and convince someone that by swapping out the seatpost and stem something can be made to fit. But whatever that is, is not going to be as exact as going custom. This is especially true when one is not near the center of the Bell Curve.

For starters as one thickens with age and gets less flexible their handlebars are likely to get higher (probably as high as their saddle) and that means their butt is going to go back. The result is that the most common 73º seat angle is too far forward. To take the pressure off of their hands their seat needs to go back further and a 72º or even 71º seat angle will match their saddle set back position better.

A custom frame can lower the bottom bracket height to fit your crank length and cornering style. Production designers have to assume some customer will be pedaling through corners at speed and might have longer cranks so they have to have less bottom bracket drop than ideal. The lower the bottom bracket the bigger the frame one can straddle. This makes the head tube longer and the result is fewer stackers or quill stem extension so a frame looks proportional and not hideous.

There are a lot of nuances in frame design and a good builder can take advantage of all of them to provide a superior ride. I’ve been teaching frame building classes for over 40 years. I find that my older students are surprised how different a frame designed after a fitting is with whatever they had before. In every case they liked how much better and more comfortable their new frame they made rode compared with whatever they were riding before.

I’m one of those builders that likes to meet and personally fit every customer (although mostly I just teach). I don’t want to take a chance on someone else’s measurements or fit. And as a word of caution there is a wide range of ability among builders. There is no standard or test anyone has to pass to hang out their shingle.

And I’ll give a personal testimony. A 22 ½” steel Trek frame fits me almost perfectly. I would prefer a little less seat angle but I can compensate with a more setback setpost and shorter stem. I redid one with an alignment, new braze-ons and paint so I can ride a decent bicycle when I am in Ukraine doing our charity bike project. It rides nice and in a country where the average person makes less than $200 a month I feel privileged to be able to ride such a bike. However it is not nearly as nice a ride as my personal custom frame I made with light tubing and every aspect fits my perfectly. In fact there is no comparison. The fact that I can paint my personal frame with the colors of my choosing, can cut the lugs to a design of my liking and add any accessories that I desire is all just a bonus. The only reason not to go custom is because you have to wait to get it (especially for the best builders) and it might cost more although not necessarily compared to the upper end bicycles sold in retail stores.

Wildwood 

I've been fitted for 3 custom bikes.
1. Sent measurements for a Co-Motion tandem.
They advertised in the mid-90s that their bikes rode more like a single than Santana = true!
2. Rode a standard 60cm Calfee as a test bike for a 2 hour ride, mostly up Hwy 1 from Santa Cruz, CA.
While i did the test ride, Craig Calfee measured my existing bike and recommended changes from the test bike.
3. Visited Jon Tallerico, for 'a road bike that would ride like a dream, weight a 2nd level consideration'.
He put me on a trainer on my 'best' bike for 20min (and left), then told me to crank it up for 5 more, and watched. Then went on a 10min ride with me. Then took a few measurements.


The tandem rides well, but I only have the one for reference. Sending measurements is the only realistic method for most buyers and builders have their sizing techniques.

Both method #2 & #3 inserted the framebuilder personally into the evaluation/sizing and yielded perfectly fitting framesets. Perhaps even more importantly = my faith in the custom build was exceedingly HIGH throughout the process and afterward. With the steel Tallerico, tube selection and design details made it 100% unique for me. Always paint the custom your way.

For custom, the best is possibly a local builder you trust who goes one step beyond just measurements.

edit: and sometimes you gotta wait, especially if the builder is busy satisfying other clients. That's why multiple bikes make waiting for a custom so .... miserably tolerable.



Columbus, OS downtube, lugs, creme panels, 1 1/8th head tube (and a bit tall), fastback stays.

thinktubes 

I would try to work on the overweight and conditioning issues before considering a custom.

I'm 6' 1" with a 32" inseam. Long torso and arms. Plenty of off-the-peg stuff fits.

squirtdad

@SamSpade1941 it seems centurions tend to long top tubes.......this one may be still too tall at 56, but has 57 top tube https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...onal-ride.html but would be worth a look

and you can pretty much be guaranteed it is is super condition as it is @rccardr bike

Andy_K 

I've paid for a bike fit twice and both times came out with just about the same results. The first time around it was a lot different than what I thought I needed and felt weird at first, but in a couple of weeks it started to feel natural and a lot more comfortable than my best guess. A few years later I decided to do it again with a different fitter because I was trying to convince myself that a "sportier" (less upright) position would work. I went into the second fitter with a bike set up the way I imagined I wanted it. He put me back in the position I had been using since the first fitting -- based on measurement and observation, I didn't tell him about the previous recommendation. This is anecdotal, of course, but it led me to believe that at least a few of these guys know what they're doing.


Now my personal opinion.... I believe that bike fit is based on getting the correct relative position of the contact points to achieve balance. There's more than one solution to the problem -- more than one "fit" that will work for you -- but all solutions must get your center of gravity right so that while pedaling you won't be leaning on the bars or sitting heavily on the saddle. I don't trust online calculators because the fit has to take your personal flexibility into account as well as how the weight is distributed on your body. For example, I'm a bit top heavy -- a lot of weight above the waist -- so I either need my saddle really far back or my handlebars fairly high. The latter is usually more practical.

I read somewhere about a great demonstration of what I'm saying here. Stand against a wall, heels and butt touching the wall, and try to bend over and touch your toes. You won't be able to do it, no matter how flexible you are. Now take a small step forward and try again. Notice how your hips naturally go back as you do this.

The other illustration I like is this:



That's a picture of bike fit. The bottom bracket is where the board touches the table. The board is your legs. The bottle is your upper body. Different bottles would balance at different angles.


But enough of that rant. The other thing I wanted to say is that once you understand your fit needs, you'll find that a pretty wide range of bikes can be made to work. I've got a spreadsheet that I use to calculate stack and reach based on bike geometry and I use this to pick my stem and stem length and height. Saddle height relative to the bottom bracket is more or less a constant, as is handlebar to saddle distance. With these measurements I put the contact points in the right place, and the fit is generally very, very close. To illustrate, the smallest bike I've made work is a 54cm Pinarello:



It looks goofy with the super high 100mm stem and lots of seat post showing, but it felt just right while I was riding it. At the other end of the spectrum is a 58-59cm Colnago.



A small handful of seatpost and an 80mm stem that is nearly at a normal-looking height. I'm firmly touching the top tube when I stand over it, but onnce I'm pedaling it's perfect.

tl;dr -- Get the bike fit done. Figure out how to transfer the fit to whatever bike you want to ride.

Also, if I may be so shameless as to put in a plug for a friend's business, Shawn at PDX Bodyworks is a physical therapist who offers bike fit services. I didn't know him when I got my fit done, but he tells me that in many cases health insurance will cover at least part of the cost of his services.

100bikes

Bicycle geometries follow a couple of scenarios. I like to call them European and American as the basic premise.
European design being a top tube / seat tube closer ratio, and American build tend to be longer top tube. Not better or worse- just different. If you came into our shop(before we closed it) I would show you a specialized(or a number of other brands of similar design). They tended to have a longer top tube, which allows for a better range of stem lengths for final fit. A European style fit 54 cm bike, for your height and torso length puts you into the 110+ mm stem length.

Lots of options, but this is where a good LBS comes in handy.

thinktubes 

In my experience, seat tube angle seems to have the biggest influence on fit.

Being similar dimensions to the OP, I reasoned that a slack angle (72 degrees) and longer TT would be the ticket.

I tried a 57x58 (st/tt) frame and the balance just didn't feel right.

At the end of the day, frames with steeper angles and a tt 1cm under the st seem to always fit.