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Highest Price for a road bike for hilly races

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Highest Price for a road bike for hilly races

Old 02-12-20, 12:10 PM
  #26  
mstateglfr 
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Originally Posted by sobre View Post
Hello fellas.
How much do you think is the highest bid for a decent bike in order to gain the maximus efficency without spending too much money for amateur players?
Considering hilly races of 90-180km.
Recently I have upgraded my bike (I bought a new one less heavy) and I had a gain of 5 minutes for each 1 hour of course, that means at least 40 minutes for 180km races.
For example, I won't buy a bike worth 6000 more, to gain 5 extra minutes during our 180km, but if 1000 more means 40 minutes more... then it's starting to be a real difference.
I understand profesional athletes try to look for the best and those extra 5 minutes may cost them the 1st place; but for all the rest of us, who doesn't look for those crazy marks, I wonder what's the highest fair price we should go.
So that's my question, what's the highest price you think the amateur player should aim in order to gain the maximus extra time without spending too much.
If its already been mentioned, I missed it and apologize. I dont think its been mentioned- the highest bid is $4,567.89 US dollars. That will make you exactly 40 minutes faster over 180K of riding. The wind, elevation, temperature, and your current abilities are totally unimportant here- that much money will make you 40min faster for sure.***
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Old 02-12-20, 12:42 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by sobre View Post
Yeah,,, you got a point there. I understand what you say.
However, in my case, I had a 5 min difference with those 2 bikes on hills. One was aluminium and it was 200 bucks when I bought it already used from another guy, the other one was full carbon and I bought it also used from another guy for 800 bucks, so the weight difference was important I guess. But that's why I was trying to see what was the real difference you may have from one bike to another, because I thought maybe if I could get better bike lets say 1500 bucks (double price of my one), thinking about the previous upgrade than got me those extra 5 min, I was thinking maybe this new bike would mean 5 min more...

Just trying to see if it worth to buy a new better one or not.
If you spend enough money you can travel backwards in time.
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Old 02-12-20, 01:01 PM
  #28  
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Read your 1st post and 2 replies, but nobody else's opinion.

Bang for buck for amateur racer - who wants to 'be there at the sprint for home' = a stiff Al frame (replaceable der hanger) with 105 level components and tubular wheels/tires (and they don't have to be super-expensive, nor even CF wheels but $$$$$ tires). Then make a comfortable cockpit with your favorite bars&wrap, post, saddle, shoes/cleats.

Stiff & reliable bikes win the races given equal strength, speed, endurance and willingness to suffer. Cunning and a good partner or 2 can help make a difference.
What did a former great racer say about training, never getting easier only faster - or something similar.


edit: great racers occasionally crash, thus the lack of premium on frameset+components. Maybe Ultegra level components for a careful racer who never expects to mix it up in the corners or on sprints
re-edit after reading the thread.
a coach or two can help hugely - nutrition, training, racing, motivation.
a training partner equal or better than yourself = helpful
racing experience and learning power pacing = helpful

frame/fork/non-rotating component weight is secondary.to sensibly lightweight wheels/tires and possibly shoes/cleats.

Last edited by Wildwood; 02-12-20 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 02-12-20, 01:36 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by hazetguy View Post
the weight of the bike has nothing to do with it. It's all about your kit, and dialing cranking it up to 400 watts and droping the hamer. https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...ike-lance.html
fify :d
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Old 02-12-20, 04:51 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by sean.hwy View Post
How come no one ever gives the advice asked? Do you really think the OP does not already know the biggest factor is him?

There's a HUGE difference between say an costco bike and 5k+ carbon fiber bike with all the bells and whistles. Somewhere is the sweet spot for the non podium people.
Spend 1k more save 5 minutes. good deal. Spend 4k save 3 seconds not for the average joe.

Basically I think you want a used Z06 in the bike world. Not much goes faster than a used Z06 on race track for the given amount of money.

I don't have experience to answer you sobre.

The GCN did a video apr 2018 that might be of some interest to you.
I have watched both videos those guys made and this is exactly the answer I was looking for. It looks like around 1000 (the bike they used in the examples of the video) is the price we could aim to have a decent bike without spending too much money.
Thank you so very much sean.hwy.
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Old 02-12-20, 06:53 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by ELIOTASIA View Post
I understand profesional athletes try to look for the best and those extra 5 minutes may cost them the 1st place; but for all the rest of us, who doesn't look for those crazy marks, I wonder what's the highest fair price we should go.
How high or low you should spend on this "hobby" or any endeavour should be related to your income times your desired ability times your motivation.

I have made 22 pound bikes for less than $250...$100 dollars of that being a trip to the powder-coater. I have a ridiculously (ludicrously) expensive touring bike that is anything but fast. I have an UCI compliant race bike with TT wheels that costs more than any car in my driveway. I also have a similarly spec'd bike that originally cost $500 at the local Performance Bike & is actually my favorite bike. It literally depends on how resourceful you are.


How much you spend on equipment is so unrelated to performance nobody can put a number on it. Speed and power is literally only related to the focused training sessions on the home trainer. It takes years to build mitochondria for sustained high performance effort. It takes years to improve coordination. It takes years to develop and improve VO2 max. It takes a lot of consistent training to grow more blood to transport oxygen.


I clean house on a $40 1974 Schwinn Varsity. I don't feel the need to brag about it. I let the bike do the talking. The equipment is just a tool. Admittedly the Schwinn is nothing like the day it was made. But, light shifters and a coat of paint on a 30 pound gas pipe chunk of Americana isn't going to change the fact the wheels are 32 spoke aluminum, the frame is 9 pounds, and the geometry is anything but "high performance."


There is no dollar number.


If my answer doesn't satisfy, and you need a number, then here: $1000 anything under 25 pounds (12kg) with a Sora 2x9 group set and some light casing road tires with light tubes. Maybe spend $50 on the right cassette for your local terrain. Add in another $50 for a heart rate monitor & pair it to your GPS device (be it phone or Wahoo/Garmin), maybe throw in some clipless pedals, and you're set.
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Old 02-12-20, 06:53 PM
  #32  
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I think the highest price a person should pay is whatever that person can afford to pay for what he/she wants. I also think I wouldn't be asking what BF thinks I should do with my life.
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Old 02-13-20, 08:44 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by sobre View Post
#1[/URL] d2129]So that's my question, what's the highest price you think the amateur player should aim in order to gain the maximus extra time without spending too much.
Let's start at the basics. The #1 most important factor is your genetic make-up and true physiological potential. But...you cannot choose your parents.

Next most important is having the heart of a champion, refusing to quit. You must thrive as you make your dwelling deep in the pain cave. Do you have a champion's heart?

The next is mental focus and discipline. Can you place a single purpose so central to your life as to abandon all other distraction and pursuits?

Fourth, you must find a mentor and coach. Someone who has gone before you and has the experience and will to push you beyond your limits and teach you the skills that you'll need to survive and compete.

Finally, get a bike and ride it. A lot. Develop a training plan and measure, measure, measure. Set goals with both quantified outcomes and with time horizons. Pin on a number and race locally. See what happens...
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Old 02-13-20, 08:53 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
Let's start at the basics. The #1 most important factor is your genetic make-up and true physiological potential. But...you cannot choose your parents.

Next most important is having the heart of a champion, refusing to quit. You must thrive as you make your dwelling deep in the pain cave. Do you have a champion's heart?

The next is mental focus and discipline. Can you place a single purpose so central to your life as to abandon all other distraction and pursuits?

Fourth, you must find a mentor and coach. Someone who has gone before you and has the experience and will to push you beyond your limits and teach you the skills that you'll need to survive and compete.

Finally, get a bike and ride it. A lot. Develop a training plan and measure, measure, measure. Set goals with both quantified outcomes and with time horizons. Pin on a number and race locally. See what happens...
No, no, no. You just spend whatever it takes to get the speediest bike and head to the winners circle. After all your years here I can't believe you don't know this.

I'm gonna help the newbie and say $10,000. Wait, make that $10,001.
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Old 02-13-20, 09:27 AM
  #35  
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I think people are being unfair to the OP--it's a reasonable question asking for informed opinions on an inherently subjective call. No reason to get snarky about it--either you have a view on the subject or you don't. For me, I try to buy good inexpensive used bikes and ride the hell out of them. I'm a lot more interested in whether I enjoy riding with the components and frame rather than concerning myself with their weight.
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Old 02-13-20, 09:32 AM
  #36  
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$42,000.
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Old 02-13-20, 11:08 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I think people are being unfair to the OP--it's a reasonable question asking for informed opinions on an inherently subjective call. No reason to get snarky about it--either you have a view on the subject or you don't. For me, I try to buy good inexpensive used bikes and ride the hell out of them. I'm a lot more interested in whether I enjoy riding with the components and frame rather than concerning myself with their weight.
Thank you.
I just wanted to have an idea to know how much money should I invest as an amateur player... because I'm new to this world and I have no idea what is a fair price for a decent bike. Obviously it depends a lot on the rider itself and the training, I know that, but c'mon... I think my question was pretty clear; we all know everywhere there is a price when things starts to get unnecesary expensive (or at least, price increases a lot for minor improvements). Of course this is a subjective topic for everyone but I just wanted to have an idea of people's prices.

I clearly found a difference between my first road bike (one really cheap one I got from decathlon) versus the one I currently have which is full carbon bike; I increased the speed on the hills, and the overall speed on flat roads. I improved my 11kg bike for a 7kg bike, and I saw the results. I won over 2km/h overall speed with the same strenght. The bike I currently has, I bought it from a guy who had it since 2013, so after seeing this huge difference, I asked myself: "Is this the best I could get for me? Maybe there is better and I should invest more".
So I wanted to have one idea of what was the average price people would think was the optimal for them;
I hate to buy stuff for too much to then realise I could get similar results with less.
I don't like to waste money stupidly. Earning 0.5km/h if I should invest 2000 extra doesn't worth for me.
Why would I care having a 5k bike if me (with my amateur level) I can get similar results with a 1k bike? Obviously those 5k bikes are there for a reason, and pro use them at its max performance, but I'm not pro and I don't pretend to be, but with a good decent bike at least I can get better results.

I'm not trying to buy speed at all, I was just asking what was the best price for a decent bike before things starts to get unnecesary expensive.
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Old 02-13-20, 11:30 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
$42,000.

Divide that by 100, and it's in my normal price range.
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Old 02-13-20, 11:39 AM
  #39  
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$800 carbon bike that weighs 15.4lbs sounds like you've already optimized it.
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Old 02-13-20, 01:18 PM
  #40  
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A good bike doesn't have to be a new 2020 model.
Perhaps a 2019 model?

You can certainly break 20 lbs without spending an arm and a leg.

I have intended to try to cut down to the 15 pound range, perhaps 14? And, may well build it up around a 20 year old frame.

Do you gain anything from the cutting edge technology? Probably. But, how much, and are they the right gains. So, a little over 100 miles... not short, but perhaps a good stiff frame from 10 years ago would suit you well for hills.
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Old 02-13-20, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
A good bike doesn't have to be a new 2020 model.
Perhaps a 2019 model?

You can certainly break 20 lbs without spending an arm and a leg.

I have intended to try to cut down to the 15 pound range, perhaps 14? And, may well build it up around a 20 year old frame.

Do you gain anything from the cutting edge technology? Probably. But, how much, and are they the right gains. So, a little over 100 miles... not short, but perhaps a good stiff frame from 10 years ago would suit you well for hills.
He already has a carbon bike that weighs sub 16lbs. That was his second bike he purchased for $800.
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Old 02-13-20, 02:01 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
He already has a carbon bike that weighs sub 16lbs. That was his second bike he purchased for $800.
So in that case, perhaps look at the big places to cut weight.

Wheels, tires, tubes?
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Old 02-13-20, 02:46 PM
  #43  
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It's a simple question and to answer the OP directly.

If someone were to ask me what they should seek to move from participant to 'somewhat" competitive mid pack, but not seeking top tier performance, I would suggest:
  • Sub 20lb frame
  • 105 groupset
  • Best tire choice for the conditions

That seems to be the sweet spot between general recreational bikes and more performance oriented models. yes, a super fit rider might be able to rock a Sora groupset and a Poser might flag on a Dura Ace, but most riders would fit somewhere within the parameters listed.

Once you have that, the cost/benefit ratio begins to narrow and become dependent on other factors, so that criteria would be a good base to start from. Added to the list I would suggest carefully considering how important aggressive geometry vs endurance geometry was for the individual and making a good saddle choice because rides between 100-200km start to become attrition based as well as fitness based.

There is a lot of choice within those parameters for make, material and model and how cheaply or expensive that is depends on whether you buy new, used or discounted.

Two problems that arise once you begin to go beyond those marks is that the bike begins to become more delicate (already mentioned) and more prone to damage, which may matter if replacement cost is a limiting factor.

The other problem is that the bikes tend to become specialized in terms of conditions built for and one may wind up needing yet another bike to be competitive in a different category. Hence, time trial bikes, climbing bikes, sprint bikes, endurance bikes...


Stuff like fitness level, eating right and getting enough sleep before the race are assumed.

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Old 02-13-20, 03:16 PM
  #44  
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$15 a month for a zwift subscription and a couple hundred bucks for a compatible trainer and actually using their workouts. Or you could get a real coach for however much that costs. A couple hundred bucks for a used powertap wheel and a book about training using power. The point is, working on the engine is almost always a better investment than getting a new bike.
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Old 02-13-20, 04:07 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by sobre View Post
Thank you.
I just wanted to have an idea to know how much money should I invest as an amateur player... because I'm new to this world and I have no idea what is a fair price for a decent bike. Obviously it depends a lot on the rider itself and the training, I know that, but c'mon... I think my question was pretty clear; we all know everywhere there is a price when things starts to get unnecesary expensive (or at least, price increases a lot for minor improvements). Of course this is a subjective topic for everyone but I just wanted to have an idea of people's prices.

I clearly found a difference between my first road bike (one really cheap one I got from decathlon) versus the one I currently have which is full carbon bike; I increased the speed on the hills, and the overall speed on flat roads. I improved my 11kg bike for a 7kg bike, and I saw the results. I won over 2km/h overall speed with the same strenght. The bike I currently has, I bought it from a guy who had it since 2013, so after seeing this huge difference, I asked myself: "Is this the best I could get for me? Maybe there is better and I should invest more".
So I wanted to have one idea of what was the average price people would think was the optimal for them;
I hate to buy stuff for too much to then realise I could get similar results with less.
I don't like to waste money stupidly. Earning 0.5km/h if I should invest 2000 extra doesn't worth for me.
Why would I care having a 5k bike if me (with my amateur level) I can get similar results with a 1k bike? Obviously those 5k bikes are there for a reason, and pro use them at its max performance, but I'm not pro and I don't pretend to be, but with a good decent bike at least I can get better results.

I'm not trying to buy speed at all, I was just asking what was the best price for a decent bike before things starts to get unnecesary expensive.
I have another question pertaining to what the OP refers to as a "race". Mass start road races mean that people ride together in a big group. Skilled riders do not waste energy trying to get away because no matter how strong they are they will be chased down by the combined strength of the following riders even in a hilly race. In a real bike race, bike weight is not nearly as important as race strategy. Solo rides are one thing, but races involving other riders are a totally different scenario. Money cannot buy racing tactics.
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Old 02-13-20, 04:15 PM
  #46  
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People who are telling you a smart trainer and subscription aren't actually wrong although it only answers your question in a round about way. I do find that 40 min on a smart trainer is much easier then on the old dumb ones and I'm getting faster in the off season.
If your carbon frame is relatively modern and even semi-aero you won't do a lot better then it for cheap unless it doesn't fit, if you're sub 20lb already then lighter also won't really make you faster. From shopping around for new bikes the best trickle down features that make a difference start to appear around 2k though if speed efficiency was my concern I'd immediately replace the wheels with something that will cost as much as the bike. On a more modern bike the biggest improvement after yourself is the wheels. Some hubs spin better, some rims are better combinations of light and aero and spokes can matter a lot as does the tires you put on them. A lighter carbon rim with lower spoke count built to a properly fast and reliable hub with Continental 5000s tires sized to the width of the rim will be lighter, spin faster and roll smoother and better then anything that comes on a 2000.00 bike. You however are the biggest improvement. Your helmet, fit of your clothes and most importantly proper positioning on the bike will make the biggest gain in speed. Having a proper fitting that sets you to an optimal position you can comfortably hold for a couple hours or more at a time especially coupled with good clothing and helmet can easily gain you 5 min or more for every hour. So you can buy more speed and a good amount but I'm not certain there's a price break bike that will just do it, just one that will give you the best rounded features that requires adjustment from there.
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Old 02-13-20, 04:45 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
I have another question pertaining to what the OP refers to as a "race". Mass start road races mean that people ride together in a big group. Skilled riders do not waste energy trying to get away because no matter how strong they are they will be chased down by the combined strength of the following riders even in a hilly race. In a real bike race, bike weight is not nearly as important as race strategy. Solo rides are one thing, but races involving other riders are a totally different scenario. Money cannot buy racing tactics.

I'm quite newbie as you can imagine with my silly questions, but the races I enjoy doing aren't mass road races. I like extreme hilly races where you are alone almost all the time. I'm also training alone most of the times, even during the longer sessions; but for those long sessions, I try to find races instead, because that way I discover new places and the roads are normally closed for us, and it's far more funny.

Tomorrow for example, I go for a ride alone of 110 km with +2000 m just for training. (I'm training for a race I have in couple months of 180km with elevation gain of 5500m)
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Old 02-13-20, 05:06 PM
  #48  
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That all sounds pretty extreme.

Get what you can afford, feel comfortable with, and FEEL COMFORTABLE WRECKING!

You'll quickly reach a point where shaving, say 1 pound (1/2 kilo) off the bike will be difficult, and very expensive.

Look at your wheels and tires carefully. You may well be able to save significant weight by going to some mid-profile tubular rims and lightweight tires. Just don't go so light that you risk getting a flat in the middle of the race with inadequate support.

Don't sacrifice your bearings for a fraction of an ounce.
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Old 02-13-20, 05:29 PM
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ironwood
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A lot depends on the Dollar -Euro exchange rate.
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Old 02-13-20, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
He already has a carbon bike that weighs sub 16lbs. That was his second bike he purchased for $800.
I don't believe that. Photo of the bike suspended from a scale? More likely 18+ lbs... just keeping things real.
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