2014 Race Results Thread
06-18-14, 04:17 PM
#2251
out walking the earth
When did the upgrade rules change? I don't recall. I doubt he's amassed 100s of upgrade points since they changed, and the back dated ones don't count, right?
I honestly can't muster the righteous indignation over a 57 year old guy. Nothing anyone has said has swayed my opinion one iota. If guys can't beat a 57 year old guy they should take up a different hobby. Fondo, perhaps.
I honestly can't muster the righteous indignation over a 57 year old guy. Nothing anyone has said has swayed my opinion one iota. If guys can't beat a 57 year old guy they should take up a different hobby. Fondo, perhaps.
06-18-14, 05:17 PM
#2252
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so he's fast enough for the Olympics, but not p1/2 races, got it.
not to mention it sounds like he hasn't even tried the 1/2's, so how do we know he wouldn't survive there?
and finally, masters - masters is where that guy needs to be if anywhere. masters was created for guys like that!
not to mention it sounds like he hasn't even tried the 1/2's, so how do we know he wouldn't survive there?
and finally, masters - masters is where that guy needs to be if anywhere. masters was created for guys like that!
06-18-14, 06:40 PM
#2254
Senior Member
It's now since become the actual upgrade.
So in a way he wasn't breaking those rules. He wouldn't have gotten upgraded really early (80s) because he isn't, as far as I know, competitive in the hills, so he would have been disqualified for not being a good all-rounder.
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"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
06-18-14, 06:47 PM
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The mandatory upgrade rule from 3->2 has been around at least since 2010 when I was preparing to return to racing. I know plenty of Masters who had enough points to cross the threshold but never upgraded.
06-18-14, 06:48 PM
#2256
Senior Member
Guys like him are the reason a lot of our guys no longer race. I've heard stories like yours @carpediemracing but I've always dismissed them as exaggerations.
I belonged to a reasonably well represented team in the mid 2000s. One of their riders did well as a 3 (4th at Fitchburg) then, in his first race as a 2, got 2nd at Battenkill. Teammates weren't much worse and the stronger ones were 2s in a short time.
The one that did well at Battenkill and one other were caught up in a crash caused by the guy that took me out (in one of my earlier non-HD clips - I end up in the sand). A future teammate and former NE Crit Champ broke something, shoulder or collarbone (he's a current teammate, inactive). My then teammates swore off crits after that, not trusting the riders around them. They upheld that promise for a while and generally speaking I don't see any of them in crits now. Bethels, okay, but they're mainly RR type guys now. Not sure of the wisdom of their RR/Crit choice but the antagonist in this case doesn't do RR so it sort of makes sense.
One former New England local association board member said that they joked about forming a "blank blank injury fund" to help pay for the medical costs of all the riders he's hurt in bike races. When they say stuff like that but nothing happens then it's not good.
*edit I should say that the racer in question has been much better since 2009, at least around me. And the racer that I've described before hasn't done boo in a number of years. However it happened in the past.
Heck, even a now-well-respected "Junior coach" within a 500 mile radius of me took out his break companion while out of sight on the last lap of a crit (the coach guy slammed the other guy's front wheel, took him out). This was before he was a Junior coach. The other rider told me what happened, I asked why he didn't protest. He said that he didn't feel like it would be worth it, his word against a much more respected/known racer who was laughing about how "the other guy couldn't stay up" after the race.
Crap like this happened. It shouldn't happen again.
I did crappy things when I was younger. I did stuff then that I'd be horrified if I saw it happen now, even stupid "minor" things like flooring it in first gear when a toll lane opened up between two long lines of cars. It didn't occur to me that someone would pull out of one of the two lines of cars. Fortunately for me they didn't. I wouldn't do that now. However I've never tried to take another rider down, never hit another rider, never grabbed their arm to scare them. I've even taken the bow of shame and punished myself for moves I felt I shouldn't have made in retrospect (I sit up and go to the back of the field, no one needs to tell me if I screwed up). As far as I know I've never taken anyone out in a race, other than by getting taken out myself first (training ride I've caused falls, like when I turned left and the guy on my wheel thought we were going straight). Some things may change (my lane example) but some things haven't (me physically attacking another rider).
Finally, shovel expressed some surprise at the complaints about officials in our area. I asked our local coordinator if I could control who I got assigned as officials as I didn't want particular ones. The coordinator told me no. I told her about my concerns about specific officials. She sighed and said she knew about them but there wasn't much she could do. So there are some poor officials in the area, it seems like people know about them, but there isn't much to do about it, at least not right now.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
Last edited by carpediemracing; 06-18-14 at 07:00 PM.
06-18-14, 06:58 PM
#2257
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Ok.
Someone posted his results, his upgrade point tally is in the hundreds.. that kind of speaks for itself. There's not really an argument about whether or not he's sandbagging.
Also, USAC is great. Without them we'd all be on some grand fondo board comparing saddle sores or something.
Someone posted his results, his upgrade point tally is in the hundreds.. that kind of speaks for itself. There's not really an argument about whether or not he's sandbagging.
Also, USAC is great. Without them we'd all be on some grand fondo board comparing saddle sores or something.
06-18-14, 06:59 PM
#2258
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When did the upgrade rules change? I don't recall. I doubt he's amassed 100s of upgrade points since they changed, and the back dated ones don't count, right?
I honestly can't muster the righteous indignation over a 57 year old guy. Nothing anyone has said has swayed my opinion one iota. If guys can't beat a 57 year old guy they should take up a different hobby. Fondo, perhaps.
I honestly can't muster the righteous indignation over a 57 year old guy. Nothing anyone has said has swayed my opinion one iota. If guys can't beat a 57 year old guy they should take up a different hobby. Fondo, perhaps.
06-18-14, 07:06 PM
#2259
out walking the earth
Because it has nothing to do with one guy, and starting with a guy that old is frankly dumb. There are lots of guys, much younger, who can be competitive as a two who are doing the same thing. The issue is that the system doesn't work, and a bunch of california guys whining about a sandbagger on the other coast is facepalmingly silly.
06-18-14, 07:06 PM
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He's a Cat1 so he could care less. I have no dog in this fight either. It's the principle of the thing.
06-18-14, 07:07 PM
#2261
Senior Member
I don't know anything about the vast majority of stuff in this post. I'm simply saying you're talking about a time a long time ago, which had more money in the amateur sport than now. Even still I call BS on threes winning 1K or even 500 every weekend. That's what I'm saying is an urban myth. That isn't to say there wasn't some big pay day at some race (I won a crap ton of money a few years back in the 1,2 race at orchard beach), but that no one is making the kind of money that guys talk about when they're boasting about someone they know.
I also said that I was told he would be disappointed not to make $1k, not that he made it every week. I can't verify what he did in other races (places or actions) but he certainly cleaned up at the race days when I was there. I took the figure at face value, and it's second hand, so I can't defend it. Maybe it was a huge feint to demoralize me or something. Who knows. Regardless the other stuff he did, I saw and experienced it, no myth or urban legend.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
06-18-14, 07:21 PM
#2263
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Because it has nothing to do with one guy, and starting with a guy that old is frankly dumb. There are lots of guys, much younger, who can be competitive as a two who are doing the same thing. The issue is that the system doesn't work, and a bunch of california guys whining about a sandbagger on the other coast is facepalmingly silly.
06-18-14, 09:22 PM
#2267
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all things are all things, just ingredients in the mixing bowl.
06-18-14, 10:18 PM
#2268
06-19-14, 08:52 PM
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4/5 Rockleigh NJ Crit. Best race so far. Finished mid pack, maybe 20th out of 50?
I'm finally getting hang of this racing thing. It was my 9th race, and I found that if I stay in the middle I could be 8th wheel one lap, then back towards the back as people move up on both sides during one lap. I prefer to be on the sides and towards the front so when people get ready for the two 90 degree turns, I try to stay on the sides so I don't brake and then sprint out of the turn. Even if I see more wind this way, I feel more comfortable being able to move and not get surrounded by people that could potentially let a gap go.
I also found that moving up on the back straight takes a lot of energy but it's worth it because I can then coast through the turn and save energy there instead of braking with the entire peleton.
After 10 minutes about 8 riders got dropped, a few minutes later there was a crash of 3 people at the first 90 degree turn that I avoided pretty easily. In the middle of the race, since my wife came to watch I came around everyone and got in the front of the pack, and then really slowed the pace down. No one went around me for about 30 seconds which was interesting. When people did, a couple guys attacked but most stayed behind me, as I was content letting them go and racing at my own pace. Eventually the pace ramped up again.
Average speed was 25.1mph which is my fastest race so far. On the bell lap, both calves cramped up LeBron style, must have been due to the warmish weather and it was humid. My heart rate was higher than it usually is, even at elevated speeds like this. The good thing is that I didn't contest the sprint due to exhaustion, and a bunch of people went down on the final sprint. The field was strung out for the last mile as the pace got to about 30mph for the whole lap. I braked when I saw the crash, went around and felt great about my finishing place. Racing is so much fun.
I'm finally getting hang of this racing thing. It was my 9th race, and I found that if I stay in the middle I could be 8th wheel one lap, then back towards the back as people move up on both sides during one lap. I prefer to be on the sides and towards the front so when people get ready for the two 90 degree turns, I try to stay on the sides so I don't brake and then sprint out of the turn. Even if I see more wind this way, I feel more comfortable being able to move and not get surrounded by people that could potentially let a gap go.
I also found that moving up on the back straight takes a lot of energy but it's worth it because I can then coast through the turn and save energy there instead of braking with the entire peleton.
After 10 minutes about 8 riders got dropped, a few minutes later there was a crash of 3 people at the first 90 degree turn that I avoided pretty easily. In the middle of the race, since my wife came to watch I came around everyone and got in the front of the pack, and then really slowed the pace down. No one went around me for about 30 seconds which was interesting. When people did, a couple guys attacked but most stayed behind me, as I was content letting them go and racing at my own pace. Eventually the pace ramped up again.
Average speed was 25.1mph which is my fastest race so far. On the bell lap, both calves cramped up LeBron style, must have been due to the warmish weather and it was humid. My heart rate was higher than it usually is, even at elevated speeds like this. The good thing is that I didn't contest the sprint due to exhaustion, and a bunch of people went down on the final sprint. The field was strung out for the last mile as the pace got to about 30mph for the whole lap. I braked when I saw the crash, went around and felt great about my finishing place. Racing is so much fun.
06-19-14, 09:23 PM
#2270
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Tuesday Night Training RR. 18 miles. Hilly. A's. Field of 10 (2 teammates, 5 from enemy team #1 , 2 interlopers)
Same race where a couple of weeks ago the field was me and 5 Bad Guys from the same team.
Guy from Bad Guy team jumps, I let him get a gap, and then bridge up. A third of the way in I drop him. The "field" is lurking and another of his teammates jumps up. There are a couple of points where I ease up a bit so as not to gap the new guy (strong sprinter/rolleur) on the inclines. We worked together, with him not doing much, as he was inclined not to.
On the steep hill that often separates the race I got a gap, probably 30 seconds, but we were together on the descent and lollipop. Apparently at this point, my teammate who hadn't been dropped was disrupting the chase. I jumped with 1.5k to go on the finishing climb and solo'd in.
I've been strong in this training series (2 @ 1st and 1 @ 2nd) and you start to see how consistent good results against the same guys starts to take a toll on them. They race a little tighter and give in just a fraction easier. I'm very familiar with this phenomenon because I've certainly been on the other end of it.
Same race where a couple of weeks ago the field was me and 5 Bad Guys from the same team.
Guy from Bad Guy team jumps, I let him get a gap, and then bridge up. A third of the way in I drop him. The "field" is lurking and another of his teammates jumps up. There are a couple of points where I ease up a bit so as not to gap the new guy (strong sprinter/rolleur) on the inclines. We worked together, with him not doing much, as he was inclined not to.
On the steep hill that often separates the race I got a gap, probably 30 seconds, but we were together on the descent and lollipop. Apparently at this point, my teammate who hadn't been dropped was disrupting the chase. I jumped with 1.5k to go on the finishing climb and solo'd in.
I've been strong in this training series (2 @ 1st and 1 @ 2nd) and you start to see how consistent good results against the same guys starts to take a toll on them. They race a little tighter and give in just a fraction easier. I'm very familiar with this phenomenon because I've certainly been on the other end of it.
06-19-14, 09:48 PM
#2271
Making a kilometer blurry
Driveway: leadout train nearly got together. Sprinter didn't pull off the win.
I don't understand how bike racing can be so much fun for $30. I had a blast tonight. Plan was for four of us to lead out our sprinter. We didn't quite get our train connected, but the guys in between us were doing their part. I was the last guy in our train, but my sprinter had decided to follow a sprinter who wins a lot rather than follow me. Fair enough -- he just moved here from NJ and is still learning to trust us. I think he knew we'd execute the plan, but maybe doesn't quite trust that we have the strength to actually keep the other teams in line. Anyway, I launched at 500m, as planned, after we already had it strung out. I just stayed low and kept digging until the sprinters came around.
So freaking fun though. I took turns with other teams to chase down breaks, which is not something I normally do (I prefer to bridge). We wanted a sprint today though. A really dangerous rider got off the front with 2 to go and was holding it. I decided that I couldn't take part in the chase, or I would be setting us up for a sprint without an important part of our train. The cool thing was that our leadout brought him back, and he was swarmed at about 75m. So fun.
I don't understand how bike racing can be so much fun for $30. I had a blast tonight. Plan was for four of us to lead out our sprinter. We didn't quite get our train connected, but the guys in between us were doing their part. I was the last guy in our train, but my sprinter had decided to follow a sprinter who wins a lot rather than follow me. Fair enough -- he just moved here from NJ and is still learning to trust us. I think he knew we'd execute the plan, but maybe doesn't quite trust that we have the strength to actually keep the other teams in line. Anyway, I launched at 500m, as planned, after we already had it strung out. I just stayed low and kept digging until the sprinters came around.
So freaking fun though. I took turns with other teams to chase down breaks, which is not something I normally do (I prefer to bridge). We wanted a sprint today though. A really dangerous rider got off the front with 2 to go and was holding it. I decided that I couldn't take part in the chase, or I would be setting us up for a sprint without an important part of our train. The cool thing was that our leadout brought him back, and he was swarmed at about 75m. So fun.
06-20-14, 09:39 AM
#2272
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4/5 Rockleigh NJ Crit. Best race so far. Finished mid pack, maybe 20th out of 50?
I'm finally getting hang of this racing thing. It was my 9th race, and I found that if I stay in the middle I could be 8th wheel one lap, then back towards the back as people move up on both sides during one lap. I prefer to be on the sides and towards the front so when people get ready for the two 90 degree turns, I try to stay on the sides so I don't brake and then sprint out of the turn. Even if I see more wind this way, I feel more comfortable being able to move and not get surrounded by people that could potentially let a gap go.
I also found that moving up on the back straight takes a lot of energy but it's worth it because I can then coast through the turn and save energy there instead of braking with the entire peleton.
After 10 minutes about 8 riders got dropped, a few minutes later there was a crash of 3 people at the first 90 degree turn that I avoided pretty easily. In the middle of the race, since my wife came to watch I came around everyone and got in the front of the pack, and then really slowed the pace down. No one went around me for about 30 seconds which was interesting. When people did, a couple guys attacked but most stayed behind me, as I was content letting them go and racing at my own pace. Eventually the pace ramped up again.
Average speed was 25.1mph which is my fastest race so far. On the bell lap, both calves cramped up LeBron style, must have been due to the warmish weather and it was humid. My heart rate was higher than it usually is, even at elevated speeds like this. The good thing is that I didn't contest the sprint due to exhaustion, and a bunch of people went down on the final sprint. The field was strung out for the last mile as the pace got to about 30mph for the whole lap. I braked when I saw the crash, went around and felt great about my finishing place. Racing is so much fun.
I'm finally getting hang of this racing thing. It was my 9th race, and I found that if I stay in the middle I could be 8th wheel one lap, then back towards the back as people move up on both sides during one lap. I prefer to be on the sides and towards the front so when people get ready for the two 90 degree turns, I try to stay on the sides so I don't brake and then sprint out of the turn. Even if I see more wind this way, I feel more comfortable being able to move and not get surrounded by people that could potentially let a gap go.
I also found that moving up on the back straight takes a lot of energy but it's worth it because I can then coast through the turn and save energy there instead of braking with the entire peleton.
After 10 minutes about 8 riders got dropped, a few minutes later there was a crash of 3 people at the first 90 degree turn that I avoided pretty easily. In the middle of the race, since my wife came to watch I came around everyone and got in the front of the pack, and then really slowed the pace down. No one went around me for about 30 seconds which was interesting. When people did, a couple guys attacked but most stayed behind me, as I was content letting them go and racing at my own pace. Eventually the pace ramped up again.
Average speed was 25.1mph which is my fastest race so far. On the bell lap, both calves cramped up LeBron style, must have been due to the warmish weather and it was humid. My heart rate was higher than it usually is, even at elevated speeds like this. The good thing is that I didn't contest the sprint due to exhaustion, and a bunch of people went down on the final sprint. The field was strung out for the last mile as the pace got to about 30mph for the whole lap. I braked when I saw the crash, went around and felt great about my finishing place. Racing is so much fun.
06-20-14, 09:42 AM
#2273
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Tuesday Night Training RR. 18 miles. Hilly. A's. Field of 10 (2 teammates, 5 from enemy team #1 , 2 interlopers)
Same race where a couple of weeks ago the field was me and 5 Bad Guys from the same team.
Guy from Bad Guy team jumps, I let him get a gap, and then bridge up. A third of the way in I drop him. The "field" is lurking and another of his teammates jumps up. There are a couple of points where I ease up a bit so as not to gap the new guy (strong sprinter/rolleur) on the inclines. We worked together, with him not doing much, as he was inclined not to.
On the steep hill that often separates the race I got a gap, probably 30 seconds, but we were together on the descent and lollipop. Apparently at this point, my teammate who hadn't been dropped was disrupting the chase. I jumped with 1.5k to go on the finishing climb and solo'd in.
I've been strong in this training series (2 @ 1st and 1 @ 2nd) and you start to see how consistent good results against the same guys starts to take a toll on them. They race a little tighter and give in just a fraction easier. I'm very familiar with this phenomenon because I've certainly been on the other end of it.
Same race where a couple of weeks ago the field was me and 5 Bad Guys from the same team.
Guy from Bad Guy team jumps, I let him get a gap, and then bridge up. A third of the way in I drop him. The "field" is lurking and another of his teammates jumps up. There are a couple of points where I ease up a bit so as not to gap the new guy (strong sprinter/rolleur) on the inclines. We worked together, with him not doing much, as he was inclined not to.
On the steep hill that often separates the race I got a gap, probably 30 seconds, but we were together on the descent and lollipop. Apparently at this point, my teammate who hadn't been dropped was disrupting the chase. I jumped with 1.5k to go on the finishing climb and solo'd in.
I've been strong in this training series (2 @ 1st and 1 @ 2nd) and you start to see how consistent good results against the same guys starts to take a toll on them. They race a little tighter and give in just a fraction easier. I'm very familiar with this phenomenon because I've certainly been on the other end of it.
06-20-14, 09:43 AM
#2274
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Driveway: leadout train nearly got together. Sprinter didn't pull off the win.
I don't understand how bike racing can be so much fun for $30. I had a blast tonight. Plan was for four of us to lead out our sprinter. We didn't quite get our train connected, but the guys in between us were doing their part. I was the last guy in our train, but my sprinter had decided to follow a sprinter who wins a lot rather than follow me. Fair enough -- he just moved here from NJ and is still learning to trust us. I think he knew we'd execute the plan, but maybe doesn't quite trust that we have the strength to actually keep the other teams in line. Anyway, I launched at 500m, as planned, after we already had it strung out. I just stayed low and kept digging until the sprinters came around.
So freaking fun though. I took turns with other teams to chase down breaks, which is not something I normally do (I prefer to bridge). We wanted a sprint today though. A really dangerous rider got off the front with 2 to go and was holding it. I decided that I couldn't take part in the chase, or I would be setting us up for a sprint without an important part of our train. The cool thing was that our leadout brought him back, and he was swarmed at about 75m. So fun.
I don't understand how bike racing can be so much fun for $30. I had a blast tonight. Plan was for four of us to lead out our sprinter. We didn't quite get our train connected, but the guys in between us were doing their part. I was the last guy in our train, but my sprinter had decided to follow a sprinter who wins a lot rather than follow me. Fair enough -- he just moved here from NJ and is still learning to trust us. I think he knew we'd execute the plan, but maybe doesn't quite trust that we have the strength to actually keep the other teams in line. Anyway, I launched at 500m, as planned, after we already had it strung out. I just stayed low and kept digging until the sprinters came around.
So freaking fun though. I took turns with other teams to chase down breaks, which is not something I normally do (I prefer to bridge). We wanted a sprint today though. A really dangerous rider got off the front with 2 to go and was holding it. I decided that I couldn't take part in the chase, or I would be setting us up for a sprint without an important part of our train. The cool thing was that our leadout brought him back, and he was swarmed at about 75m. So fun.
06-21-14, 04:02 PM
#2275
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great ride by me, 4th of 5! p12 sucks!
j/k, it's cool to race those guys. Art Rand only 12 seconds up after 26 min? I would take that any day.
*11.3sec
Last edited by Ygduf; 06-21-14 at 04:10 PM.