RiddleOfSteel

This is a better shot of the colors at play. Really though, it needs to be seen in real life, or I need to get my friend whose good with a camera to help us all out.

There are no level places on hills, eh, Riddle?

tricky 

Looks great! Nice work as always. I am currently on an upward trend in bike frame size as well. I am thinking a 60cm ST with a 57cm top tube would be great for me, but I could even see a 62cm ST making sense.Crazy to think that my introduction into the bike world was a 55cm Peugeot complete with a technomic and miles of seatpost to make it fit. Sadly, I am taking a pause on my tinkering and bike building until I get fully unpacked in my new apartment so investigation of this bigger bike theory will need to wait. Storage is also problem so I am at a max of 2 bikes right now. The horror!

SurferRosa

Hey, man, nice shot. This is the one time you coulda placed the valve stems at 7:30pm.

I'm thinkin' white seatpost flutes.

Yesterday's high: 80°
Today's high: 63°

RiddleOfSteel

Thanks, man. With the addition of this Signature, that makes two bikes in the 66cm+ camp with everything else as 63.5-64cm. Part of me wishes this Signature was a full-on 67cm touring bike as I don't need another go fast bike, but in a world of "pick three styles" it fits the fast vintage/period style bike role perfectly. With my fleet of now-small frames, the mental battle rages on as to their fate. To have experienced love-at-first-ride on the Expedition, had frame adjustments made, and then the fit dash things against the rocks, I am still not over that and am in fact building it up just to 1) experience the magic again 2) to see if it could work and not look too awkward. I even have Open Pro rims on the wheels I'll be using (as I was planning to build up a pair) for this test ride!

The thing is, if I let in this 63.5cm bike, then aaaallll my other bikes of the same size will say "well what about me?" and then I will have yet another debate in my mind as to my logic of cutting all 64cm and smaller frames and moving to the 66-67cm range. But numbers don't tell the whole story as we know. The Expedition has a magic ride, the momentum of 'repairs' done to it, and it being a full-fledged touring bike to override it being 'too small.' I can go on about the why's and why not's for each frame, but the fate of the 64cm class rests on the Expedition's top tube...

tricky 

Have you ridden the 520 bridge recently? WADOT was collecting feedback on those "speedbumps", aka expansion joint covers since they got so many complaints. I was hoping they acted on it.

@zacster , it's cool hearing about your Seattle bike history. It's a magical place and bikes are now an inextricable part of it's fabric. I honestly didn't realize the proprietor of Wright Brothers lived above it or that there was even an apartment there. And to be honest even further, I am not totally sure how that shop stays open, but I am glad it does. It's dank, dingy and the hours are weird, but it's still cool.

SurferRosa

When I mention seeing the 520 trail closed on the east side, I was trying to take it a short ways and then cut down to I-90 before taking the 520 bridge. I'm definitely trying to stay away from riding over the awful bridge section.

zacster

It was in his old shop, they had moved at some point. Even back in the old days I don't know how he made any money at it. I bought my Davidson through him so he must've made some profit on that but I don't know how many bikes like that he sold. He's still there so it must make money. Nobody ever got rich running a bike shop.

We had big speed bumps on the Manhattan Bridge when they first opened the bikeway years ago, they eventually made them lower with much less of a bump and are more of just a plate now. It's funny too, when I5 was rebuilt back in the 80s they opened it up and everyone complained that the road joints were too uneven and it turned out the state sued the contractor. I think I left Seattle before it was resolved. Washington State has real problems with roads and bridges being done right. All of the major bridge failures I know about are there, from Galloping Gertie to the Hood Canal, the West Seattle bridge and I-90. What a brilliant idea, storing the contaminated run off water in the pontoons that are holding up the bridge. Someone farted and the bridge sank.

tricky 

I didn't know that about the I-5 expansion joints. Those are still pretty harsh and they need to close lanes to maintain them every once in a while.

There was also the Skagit bridge collapse in 2013. What is up with our roads up here?! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-5_Sk...ridge_collapse

tricky 

It looks like the expansion joints were fixed last summer. I haven't ridden it since then to verify they were all fixed, but if that was your main issue then it sounds like the trail might suit you better now. https://www.seattlebikeblog.com/2019...e-trail-bumps/

SurferRosa

Yes! I just went across this afternoon after reading your post. It was fun. There are still ten of those joints, but they're not bad. I counted 26 others that were probably removed. That thing is loooong. And hilly. A good time when it's not that windy.

And it appears the whole 520 trail is open. No idea what was meant by that closure/sign I mentioned earlier (from my ride a week or two ago).

Chombi1 

After I bought my Davidson Signature from fellow BF member, DD, a couple of years ago, I don't look at bikes the same way again, as it defined for me what a custom grade bike is, compared to a production line bike is. It also defined for me how good these American built bikes were which matched and also exceeded the quality of bikes from the best builders in Europe.
there's just no comparison, in terms of build quality/craftsmanship/finish. Quality is deep down in the steel frame and not dependent on flashy paint jobs, pantographs, chrome or graphics. And the ride of the Signature is just sublime. Same goes with it's understated, classy looks. Pretty much the norm for the great Americsn builders in the 70's and 80's.
So glad I have my 1983 Signature now, as it totally went beyond my expectations and gave me a much better appreciation of the American Master builders of that time.

Drillium Dude 

And the paint still looks like it was laid down yesterday! What a sexxxxxxy bike

DD

RiddleOfSteel

I have always loved your Signature--the color and the build are just gorgeous.

In my quest to accidentally become a lug connoisseur, the minimal lugs on the Signature (and the Impulse) are wonderful. Part of me wishes that the fork was not lugless like my Impulse, but it nevertheless is well done and the paint work (and, honestly, condition) is beautiful and the graphics classically understated.

A good question to ask is "What was/am I expecting with this Signature, ride-character-wise?" The Signature is the top dog, the custom frame, the frame one can spec to his or her wish(es). Is there a "standard" Davidson Signature ride that he works from, or is every project so 'clean sheet' that a Signature can feel like absolutely anything? I have no idea one way or the other--I'd have to ride down to his shop (not that far away) and ask him (intimidating! his thought process on bikes around that time. Buy him a drink and talk about things, even if I'm some random bike enthusiast off the street like the zillion others in this city. Maybe he'd convince me to sell everything and build a titanium bike with downtube shifter bosses [Edit: I am, of course, kidding here].

Perhaps this is what they call maturity. My Impulse is the best climber and accelerator of all my steel, past and present. The Signature is something a bit more grown up, so I don't think I expected it to be a 67cm Impulse. The general axiom of a bike that is large for one's size behaving in a more subdued manner generally holds true. Outside of MAX or crazy OS tubing, really large bikes blend the ride, they are more steady and pacific in manner. Not sluggish, perhaps, though some can be, but more measured. In both setups this large Signature signals its intent as a mileage bike, not a sprinter/climber special. I have my enthusiasms and range of riding styles, and perhaps now, all I want is a bike to tell me clearly enough what it's all about. This Signature has done so, at least so far. I'm not going to put deep-section carbon on it to 'spice it up'--that only serves to hassle the thing. Almost nothing more annoying on a bike to have one part be clearly out of sync with another so as to fracture the riding experience. Find the "pocket" and work within it.

mstateglfr 

You change the height of contact points to take pics?
Is that common around here? I would gues not, given how many pics of technomic stems and tilted drop bars there are, but it now has me curious. I wonder if it's common for posters to change the look of their bike for pics.

RiddleOfSteel

Some do, I don't (and most don't as well--at least I assume because I like to assume honesty here). I only mention that for accuracy as I took the photos mid-test ride. Towards the end I made a 3mm adjustment down to see how it felt and it ended up being a good choice, so I left it. You won't notice it visually, and neither will I pretty much. There is an honesty in being able to achieve a comfortable position and have it look good (well, to me, the owner of the bike at least). Anyone can slam a stem and put crazy small corncobs on the back etc etc, but if that's not how I ride that bike, I've 1) wasted time for the beauty shots and need to spend time undoing it all 2) not 'told the truth' in that setup being actually how I could realistically ride it for anything beyond twenty feet.

Prowler 

Its probably too early here in Penn's Woods and my eyes are blurry but it looks like that FD is set too high. I wonder if cage width is not a problem but too high is. My 'go to' is a penny's width (~ 2mm) above the big ring teeth. That gauge works well for me. I'm thinking on this as I had to check that hight on my Fuji TS yesterday. Set a bit too high so the FD was not dropping the chain to the granny ring as well as I'd like. OK now.

Nice build. I agree that the choices you've made keep the proportions right. Well done.

Mr. 66

RoS, I think your front derailleur is at angle. It looks closer to the chain ring at the tail. I think you may need to adjust the hang. The brazed hanger from the picture above looks, to me, tilted. I think the FD looks high in the front.

Take another look, if so, a shim at the bottom of the hanger could lessen the angle with minimal effort.



See how the top to the bottom of the hanger is not in line with the seat tube.

RiddleOfSteel

Thank you for the compliment. The FD is set as low as it can be, with a 1.0-1.3mm gap between the rear of the cage and the large chain ring (as we know, we set/measure this sort of thing with the FD in the small ring position). The cage is parallel to the rings as well (when looking down/vertically). Sure, a too-high FD placement can exacerbate things, but this is too finicky for that. I finally measured the gap difference, and this braze-on FD has the inner plate gap consistently 1.0-1.5mm narrower than the other Superbe Pro FD. As I suspected. I'll have to see what I can do (like gently widen it) to improve it.

RiddleOfSteel

A thank you is owed to both @Prowler and @Mr. 66--we have a much improved/repaired front derailleur situation! Prowler, you reminded me of the FD cage height/funniness, and Jon you brought to my attention the FD braze-on's misalignment with the seat tube. Nothing triggers the "gotta make it right" gene like people mentioning stuff. So as much as I don't like redoing things (especially if I think they are decent enough), a mild grumbling and laying aside of pride to look at something again was necessary, and it proved very beneficial. My theory of too narrow a cage was the third 'punch' here and now the Superbe Pro's height, angle, and cage width are looking excellent.

Starting off the fixing festivities was the spreading of the FD cage. I removed the derailleur and placed the spreaders between the plates, just below the parallelogram's pivots. This would allow spreading without area-specific cage distortion if I did it right. I had taken measurements at three places again to check, and the braze-on variant was 0.9-1.3mm or so narrower throughout much of the cage. A soft couple of partial squeezes and I had the braze-on unit matching (if a touuuuch wider) the clamp-on one. Success! The spreaders, pictured below, are well worth their modest price and are a worthy tool to have in one's collection, large or small.



I needed 1) braze-on profile-matching items (both fore and aft) 2) a way to secure them 3) leverage to do the repair 4) no paint damage. Enter in screw drivers and trusty Vice Grips. 50% lucky and 50% pleased with myself for thinking it up. It worked a treat, only a few seconds of leaning on it just enough to let it sort itself while not so hard that I risk breaking it off.



Ok, this photo's out of order, but you see the results. The braze-on mount is nearly aligned and the gap difference here is minimal, and certainly a ton better than before.



It's maybe a degree off, but nothing I'm going to worry about right now. After hooking the front derailleur up again and re-tuning things, I not only gain cog #5 (cog #1 is, for here, the largest, at 24T) without rubbing, but in that #5 position, I can trim a couple of clicks and not have the inner plate contacting the chain (aka in a 'pushing it outward' effort). For whatever reason, in practice, that became an issue--shifting from #4 (no cage rub) to #5 (cage rub), trimming for #5 and still getting cage rub. It was too finicky. As #5 with no trimming is possible, if putting mild pedaling effort (and greater), the chain will rub. Trimming gives plenty of room on either side of the chain now. Excellent.

RiddleOfSteel

Ride update: Went on a spin with a couple of friends on this gorgeous Sunday afternoon. Mostly flat paved trails with some road/bike lane connectors (full of rocks, pebbles, and detritus that likes tires very much). Shifting and need to trim was like any other normal bike, which was fantastic. For 35+ year old hubs, those old Superbe Pros just loved to coast. Great ride on a great, comfortable, efficient bike. Love it!

Ferrouscious 

What chain lube are you using? Looks cleaner than Tri-Flow or Phil's. Hoping for something a little more convenient than Squirt or White Lightning.

RiddleOfSteel

I use Dumonde Tech chain lube--the normal medium or dark green color and not the neon green color (or is that the bottle it comes in?). I haven't used any on this chain yet as it has low mileage and never sees rain. Even then, it's got some small grit in it just from being a new chain riding out in the world. The Dumonde lube smells really good (to me), but also first and foremost, has worked well for me. A drop on the each roller and then a bunch of back-pedaling revolutions on the bike stand seems to get it worked in sufficiently. Runs nicely after that, though it can collect gunk more easily, so wiping any excess off on the stand is a good move. There are others like @Dfrost that use a different lubricant on the chain that doesn't attract dirt and muck. He also doesn't get that horrible dark grey brake pad/road/rim gunk on his wheels when riding in the rain. I don't know how he does that. Maybe I will learn one day, or have a bike amenable to that behavior.

sheddle

Ooh, I think I saw that one for sale initially! A few people were joking in the CL thread, but can you confirm- the original owner of this bike was *not* Bill Russell, right?


Also- how well does that generation of Superbe Pro shift? I'm currently running the Superbe Pro 5200 friction group on a Univega Competizione - but I've seen that variant a few times and wondered how it compared.

(the 5200 shifts well, though I'm still getting used to not instinctively adjusting for overshift like on my Super Record bike- also I don't know if the freewheel position or derailleur needs adjusting, but I have to "pull" the RD shifter all the way back to a point where it "springs" back into position to get it into the big cog. Feels weird, and I've never used ratcheted friction shifters before, so I don't know if it's abnormal...)

Dfrost 

I use Pro Link Gold or Boeshield T9 (very similar wax in solvent). Per Pro Link’s recommendation, I clean the chain first with a generous lube application, back pedal a bunch, wipe down. Repeat that sequence another time. Then I apply one drop to each roller, back pedal a bunch more and let it sit overnight. Wipe down with a clean rag before the next ride.

That method lasts about 300-400 miles in the generally dry conditions of my rides. I used to wait for a chirp before relube go. Now I just relube after about that mileage. The chains is remarkably clean throughout, and chain life is 2000-3000 miles, replaced at 0.5% elongation.

These lubes are also nice in that the occasional calf “tattoo” wipes off easily.

I’m also trying a lube called “Smoove” after reading about impressive chain life results. Also wax-in-solvent, but applied much more liberally. Yes, the chain life seems excellent, but it is messier.

As far as the tire and rim gunk that Dan mentions that I don’t experience - After a rainy ride, I take the wheels off and rinse/brush them off with a garden hose and scrub brush. Also a good time to wipe off the brake pads, stays, etc. that fenders don’t protect. Yup, kind of OCD and benefiting by living in a house, which he doesn’t. And I really hate that grey junk! When he and I rebuild donated bikes at Bike Works (wondering when that will happen again...) we have to deal with that constantly.

RiddleOfSteel

The Davidson's original owner, presumably who I bought it from (documents and writing on the original steerer line up), is not Bill Russell. I do know a Mr. Russell; he is also not Bill Russell.

As far as shift quality goes, the Accushift and Accushift Plus era of Superbe Pro shifts very well. A few posts above I detailed its feel vs. 7400 Dura-Ace. As Accushift is indexing era, I evaluate it based on that. In friction mode, it's going to be like any other slant parallelogram rear derailleur in that it shifts smoothly. No spring back ever--spring back is never a thing in all the RDs I've ever ridden on (gen II Superbe, New Superbe Pro, Accushift-era Superbe Pro, Shimano stuff, Campagnolo stuff) unless you're going too far on a Shimano "Light Action" branded (no model name other than that) RD which has a pivoting spring for the cable clamp. That pivot allows a "less-skilled" rider to be clumsy and not ram the RD cage and chain into the spokes. It's very weird.

If you want more capability and no surprises, just find a nice Shimano 5600/6600/7800 rear derailleur and call it a day. 28T big cogs all day, 32T if you play it right, great springs, pretty, with smooth action. Or a 9/10-speed era Campagnolo RD. Also great for friction shifting on (done it).

Ratcheting shifters (for the left/front shift lever), again, I've detailed above, but they do what Simplex retrofriction shifters do and that is hold their position perfectly, even under high load (like out of the saddle sprinting). I had lower level Accushift plus levers that had the same shape as the Superbe Pros, but the wing-nut-ish nut to secure the left shifter to the boss had to be really cranked down to enable the ratcheting to hold. Don't know if the shifter was just tired, too old, or simply a lesser quality item that couldn't do what it's big brother could because it wasn't for racing/high stress applications. My Superbe Pro shifters were bought NOS and have been worth every bit of the near-Benjamin I paid for them. Snug the 'wing-nut-ish' nut on the left and it holds no matter what.