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Smart Trainers w/ Hard-Wired Connection?

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Smart Trainers w/ Hard-Wired Connection?

Old 08-12-20, 06:53 AM
  #1  
PoorInRichfield
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Question Smart Trainers w/ Hard-Wired Connection?

I was super excited to see the 5th generation of the Wahoo Kickr trainer finally included a port for hard-wiring the trainer to one's computer. That excitement was short-lived when I learned that the new port on the trainer is a RJ11 phone jack and not a normal network port, and there is currently no adapter to even use the port at this time. Had the port been a network port or a USB 3.0 port, I would've had a hard time not buying the new trainer as this is something I've wanted since I got my 1st gen Kickr.

That got me wondering, do any smart trainers have hard-wire capabilities?

Below is a picture of the new but currently worthless port on the Kickr v5...



While I know that most people prefer wireless connections, having been in the IT world for over 20 years, I prefer hard-wired connections when they're available. For one, I have occasional issues where my 1st generation Kickr goes bonkers on Zwift and I have yet to be able to figure-out why. If I was able to hard-wire my trainer, I could eliminate weak or faulty wireless communication as being the problem. Second, wired connects are still faster than wireless. I'd like my trainer to be as responsive as possible and have no problem with connecting a wire to it. Heck, I already have a USB extender cable on my laptop that puts the ANT+ dongle right next to the wireless transmitter on my trainer, so it's darn near a wired wireless system anyway I found that by having the ANT+ dongle pretty much laying on my Wahoo Kickr, that reduces lack time as much as possible.
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Old 08-12-20, 05:52 PM
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The obsolete CompuTrainer was wired/USB.
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Old 08-12-20, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by PoorInRichfield
I was super excited to see the 5th generation of the Wahoo Kickr trainer finally included a port for hard-wiring the trainer to one's computer. That excitement was short-lived when I learned that the new port on the trainer is a RJ11 phone jack and not a normal network port, and there is currently no adapter to even use the port at this time. Had the port been a network port or a USB 3.0 port, I would've had a hard time not buying the new trainer as this is something I've wanted since I got my 1st gen Kickr.

That got me wondering, do any smart trainers have hard-wire capabilities?

Below is a picture of the new but currently worthless port on the Kickr v5...



While I know that most people prefer wireless connections, having been in the IT world for over 20 years, I prefer hard-wired connections when they're available. For one, I have occasional issues where my 1st generation Kickr goes bonkers on Zwift and I have yet to be able to figure-out why. If I was able to hard-wire my trainer, I could eliminate weak or faulty wireless communication as being the problem. Second, wired connects are still faster than wireless. I'd like my trainer to be as responsive as possible and have no problem with connecting a wire to it. Heck, I already have a USB extender cable on my laptop that puts the ANT+ dongle right next to the wireless transmitter on my trainer, so it's darn near a wired wireless system anyway I found that by having the ANT+ dongle pretty much laying on my Wahoo Kickr, that reduces lack time as much as possible.
the Ant protocol operates at ~2.5GHz. very likely faster than the wired port. but what is the port? An RJ11 seems a bit odd for ethernet so i suppose it is not that.

what i still don't like is that little DC power connector dangly thing. i would have preferred it be more secure into the unit. i guess the design is an attempt to "trip proof" it.

edit: so it is ethernet. seems pretty lame not to use an RJ45 for that, a well accepted standard for wired ethernet. not to use it an adapter and some other dongle box is needed for less than $100? the trainer costs $1200. hard to swallow.

Last edited by spelger; 08-12-20 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 08-13-20, 11:00 PM
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I would also love to see something come with a modern USB-C port, but I suspect we're not going to have any of that anytime soon because ANT+ and Bluetooth are simply so universal right now. Everything from cadence sensors to heart rate monitors use them. If someone made a USB-C smart trainer today, either they'd have to get other software (Zwift, Trainnerroad, etc) to support it, or have the USB-C interface simply be some sort of wrapper for ANT+ to play nice with training software. And even so you'd still need ANT+ or Bluetooth for the other sensors (heart rate, etc).
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Old 08-14-20, 03:49 PM
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I'm tired of lost connections, my trainer is just about worthless if there is an electrical storm anywhere nearby. At least if Trainerroad is to be believed about connection status.

I think they may have an issue when your internet goes in and out though, so it might not be the wireless connection at all. Zwift seems to work better

I'm not sure why they would use that connector for ethernet, probably saved them a half a cent/unit. Maybe the entire design team was a student group doing a senior design project?
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Old 11-12-20, 07:40 PM
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I also suffer with signal interference on my kickr.

First step was to disable the smart-tv's wifi.

Second was to get an 8' usb cable and a ble dongle, situate the dongle right at the machine.

Still I get occasional problems and 100% of the time its an ipad somewhere within 100'.

I'd jump at the chance to get a hard-wired kickr.
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Old 11-16-20, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by spelger
the Ant protocol operates at ~2.5GHz. very likely faster than the wired port. but what is the port? An RJ11 seems a bit odd for ethernet so i suppose it is not that.

what i still don't like is that little DC power connector dangly thing. i would have preferred it be more secure into the unit. i guess the design is an attempt to "trip proof" it.

edit: so it is ethernet. seems pretty lame not to use an RJ45 for that, a well accepted standard for wired ethernet. not to use it an adapter and some other dongle box is needed for less than $100? the trainer costs $1200. hard to swallow.
The most likely explanation being regulatory clearance. If it was ethernet AKA RJ45, it would require FCC etc regulatory approval....and they were in a rush to get it out the door, given COVID logistics, and decided to do an adapter later.
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Old 11-16-20, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
The most likely explanation being regulatory clearance. If it was ethernet AKA RJ45, it would require FCC etc regulatory approval....and they were in a rush to get it out the door, given COVID logistics, and decided to do an adapter later.
RJ11 peak bandwidth is 24mbps which is 3 mega bytes per second. Nobody is streaming video or sharing files with their trainer. What is the data that is going to and fro? Its rpm data from a 'slowly' (in electronics terms) spinning flywheel and a cadence meter.

RJ11 is completely and utterly overkill for what they need. A 14kbaud serial cable would have been overkill. If it was cheaper for them, or for their customers (phone cable is cheaper) then I they made the right decision.
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Old 11-16-20, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by impolexg
RJ11 peak bandwidth is 24mbps which is 3 mega bytes per second. Nobody is streaming video or sharing files with their trainer. What is the data that is going to and fro? Its rpm data from a 'slowly' (in electronics terms) spinning flywheel and a cadence meter.

RJ11 is completely and utterly overkill for what they need. A 14kbaud serial cable would have been overkill. If it was cheaper for them, or for their customers (phone cable is cheaper) then I they made the right decision.
It is punk for as expensive as the device is....and considering that the product, RJ11 or not is all but unavailable via etailers in the USA anyway; it isn't like it did consumers much of a favor. No etailers in the USA have any stock to sell--a common theme for just about all consumer electronic devices this fall. I was lucky, I got my Kickr2020 via ebay NIB, shipped, for less than retail. But it is still ofc an expensive device.
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Old 11-16-20, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
It is punk for as expensive as the device is....and considering that the product, RJ11 or not is all but unavailable via etailers in the USA anyway; it isn't like it did consumers much of a favor. No etailers in the USA have any stock to sell--a common theme for just about all consumer electronic devices this fall. I was lucky, I got my Kickr2020 via ebay NIB, shipped, for less than retail. But it is still ofc an expensive device.
Well, you can suggest to them that they don't know how to price their product - that they should gold plate it for the absurd price you think they are charging. I got my original kickr from them as a refurb for $550 with free shipping and its worked perfectly now for many winters and it lives on my covered deck. Terrific device, definitely got my money's worth. I have used their tickr hrm for even longer, again flawless. So I'm a big fan of wahoo. They've managed to sidestep my ire for 7 years now.

Does seem weird that the port isn't enabled yet. I bet they're making some studio hub where all the cheap thin phone wire and hubs would start to make sense. Imagine managing 50 of these things.

But... you want someone to pile hate on? For me that'd be tacx (now garmin) who encrypted their device signals to lock out third parties and just unceremoniously disabled all their product license servers which prevents their customers from re-registering the software they bought (like if they get a new pc). Because of past behavior they are a company I actively avoid giving money to.
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Old 11-16-20, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
The most likely explanation being regulatory clearance. If it was ethernet AKA RJ45, it would require FCC etc regulatory approval....and they were in a rush to get it out the door, given COVID logistics, and decided to do an adapter later.
when i had edited my own response at the time i found on wahoo's website that the connector is ethernet. i don't think connector type would effect regulatory or now. i could be wrong but i highly doubt it.
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Old 11-21-20, 01:31 PM
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did they say it's rj11? That sure looks like an rj45 to me
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Old 11-21-20, 03:42 PM
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rj45 has 8 pins. i count only 6. rj11 has 6 pins. i am assuming rj11 based on that.
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Old 11-23-20, 10:04 PM
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yes, but the last two pins of an rj45 are unused for ethernet and that looks like the size of an RJ45 with two contacts missing. My guess is ethernet.
Someone plug in a cable and do a broadcast ping
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Old 11-25-20, 02:42 PM
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I've had some struggles with wireless connections and interference this year, and would truly love a hard-wire option on the KICKR CORE. As it is, I cannot really use the KICKR along with a wireless keyboard and mouse, which would have been nice. They just don't all play nice together.
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Old 11-25-20, 03:31 PM
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Does seem antiquated to be using RJ11 but I suppose it's easier to get some long a$$ piece of cable in case you have to plug into the next room or something. I also find in this COVID world connectivity is generally down all together with so many people working, schooling, just doing nothing from home all using the internet. At least in the built up areas where they were expecting most people to be away from their homes.

I would say nearly 50% of the time i lose connection at some point when Zwifting and my guy starts to glide to a stop. Annoying when you're in a race.
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