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Braking performance varies on two road bikes

Old 06-14-20, 02:07 PM
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Braking performance varies on two road bikes

Hi There,

I have two road bikes. One is my Cannondale Synapse Carbon Ultegra with Campy Zonda wheels and Ultegra 6800 brakes. The other is an older Trek Madone 4.7 with the stock Bontrager Race wheelset and 105 5700 brakes.

Both bikes are well tunes, modulation is great on both, and pads are in great condition on both.

When I brake on the Cannondale, unless I full lock, I'm mostly just "slowing down". The sound from the rear brakes can be a bit "loud" if I brake hard enough. I looked, they don't appear dirty or contaminated with metals that would cause this.

When I brake on the Trek, it doesn't take much, but I can forcefully feel myself "slowing down", even if just utilizing the rear brake (and not locking it).

Any thoughts / ideas?
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Old 06-14-20, 02:38 PM
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What kind of brake pads are you running? Since they are the friction element they have a big influence on braking performance.
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Old 06-14-20, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr
What kind of brake pads are you running? Since they are the friction element they have a big influence on braking performance.
+1 And what are the braking surfaces on the rims? Carbon fiber? Aluminum? (I've only ridden aluminum - and steel in the dark ages) so I cannot comment from experience but I hear they brake quite differently.)

Ben
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Old 06-14-20, 02:58 PM
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I speculate that rim/pad condition as well as cable free movement contributes a lot to overall feel of "braking power" (actually the ability to remove energy from the rider/bike to the brakes) then things like caliper/lever leverage factors and also pad material (although this last bit is more variable).

Having said that Shimano has spent a lot of $ to convince the buying public that each more recent brake system is "more powerful" then the last. Of course this assumes all aspects of said systems are within Shimano's specs, not always valid with non Shimano cables and rims. Andy
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Old 06-14-20, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr
What kind of brake pads are you running? Since they are the friction element they have a big influence on braking performance.
The Cannondale definitely has Ultegra pads. The Trek I believe has 105 pads as well.
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Old 06-14-20, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
+1 And what are the braking surfaces on the rims? Carbon fiber? Aluminum? (I've only ridden aluminum - and steel in the dark ages) so I cannot comment from experience but I hear they brake quite differently.)

Ben
Aluminum for both.
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Old 06-14-20, 09:35 PM
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How are the conditions of the brake cables and housings?
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Old 06-15-20, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by MudPie
How are the conditions of the brake cables and housings?
I don't imagine they're the issue. Like I mentioned modulation and contact to the bike appears good and immediate. No squishy or gunky feeling.
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Old 06-15-20, 06:41 AM
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Is it possible that something that is different between the bikes is affecting your perception of how the brakes are working? Maybe there's a more noticeable weight transfer to your hands on the trek so it feels like you're stopping more quickly?
Alternatively, the noise from the cannondale brakes might be causing you to react by releasing some pressure (ie letting up on the lever a bit) without thinking about it.
Certainly a hard problem to diagnose over the internet.
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Old 06-15-20, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by AeroGut
Is it possible that something that is different between the bikes is affecting your perception of how the brakes are working? Maybe there's a more noticeable weight transfer to your hands on the trek so it feels like you're stopping more quickly?
Alternatively, the noise from the cannondale brakes might be causing you to react by releasing some pressure (ie letting up on the lever a bit) without thinking about it.
Certainly a hard problem to diagnose over the internet.
Appreciate the insight. Maybe I'll have my LBS take a closer look when things quiet down a bit. Nothing urgent.

Thanks for everyone's help
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Old 06-15-20, 07:30 PM
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The Cannondale is the newer bike with the "better" brakes but doesn't work as well. Hmmm, sounds like maybe the older bike had an upgrade, or a pad replacement? I have a bike where the braking sucked for years. They were Campy record brakes and Modolo Kronos levers. I always thought it was just the poor design of the first aero type levers, but when I replaced the pads when I resurrected the classic Italian bike they were on suddenly I could brake again. Now the issue is that rubber hoods are unobtanium. I've tried a few things but nothing really works well. If I had the Campy levers I'd use them but the bike was built with the Modolo. In any case, bad pads can cause really bad braking. They aren't expensive and if you don't know the age maybe assume they are old and dried out.

And now that I'm talking about it maybe I need to take the Zilioli for a spin. I think I need to check the wheels, or maybe just swap on my modern Eastons for a ride. I believe the front has a Clement Criterium Seta mounted on it, another piece of unobtanium. Not sure I would trust it though. As far as I know there is only one other Zilioli bike in the U.S.
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Old 06-20-20, 08:46 AM
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So apparently some bike wash on a clean rag, cleaned the rims, cleaned the brake pads, and all is good now! Despite "looking" clean, all it appeared to need was a good wipe down.
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Old 06-20-20, 08:51 AM
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Personally I have never thought that Shimano pads were that exceptional. I know it sounds like a lot of hype here on the forum, but ever since using Kool-Stop pads I would never go back to Shimano pads. The increase in stopping power has been quite noticeable.
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Old 06-20-20, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by TakingMyTime
Personally I have never thought that Shimano pads were that exceptional. I know it sounds like a lot of hype here on the forum, but ever since using Kool-Stop pads I would never go back to Shimano pads. The increase in stopping power has been quite noticeable.
Which ones do you use? The reality is you can only have so much power before you just lock the wheel everytime.
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Old 06-20-20, 05:59 PM
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I honestly find stock Shimano pads to be very good, but given my choice I usually use Kool Stop Salmon or hybrid Pads. Swissstop FlashPro BXP is also quite nice.
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Old 06-20-20, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by WorldIRC
Which ones do you use? The reality is you can only have so much power before you just lock the wheel everytime.
Dual compound Salmon/Black. Don't take it as i consider Kool-Stop to be the best there is, it's just that personally I think they're much better than Shimano pads.
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Old 06-20-20, 06:19 PM
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I’ve used the Kool Stop salmon pads on all my bikes for years. The salmon pads give better ‘feel’ and modulation, no noise, work truly great in the wet and their wear characteristics are very good, Not at all expensive.
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Old 06-20-20, 06:34 PM
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Another vote for KS salmon pads. However, I will say that the braking on my new 105 7000 brakes/pads is very good. That is with both Fulcrum Racing 5 clinchers and Pro-Lite Bortola 2.0 clinchers. The wheelsets are also new.
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Old 06-20-20, 11:41 PM
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Shimano 105 r5800 brakes with Kool-Stop Salmon pads, Shimano r500 wheels on the Lynskey.
Shimano 105 r7000 brakes with Shimano pads, Campagnolo Zondas on the Look 585.
Better feel and stopping power with the Kool-Stops.

However, the Shimano pads are fine and I will wear them out before replacing them with Kool Stops.
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Old 06-21-20, 11:31 AM
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i really wish that pads came with an "expiration" date, esp "new"ones.
They age and get overlooked
'"They still have meat on them"
Um, is not the right answer
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