Turns out clipless pedals no better than flat pedals
#26
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For me, just me, there is such an overwhelming benefit of riding with clipless pedals that every bike I ride has them. (7 bikes.)
Thats me. Just me. You eat what you like and I’ll eat what I like, and I won’t try to force you to eat what I’m having, wear nice bibs, or ride wide soft ties with clipless pedals on carbon fiber. For ****’s sake.
Thats me. Just me. You eat what you like and I’ll eat what I like, and I won’t try to force you to eat what I’m having, wear nice bibs, or ride wide soft ties with clipless pedals on carbon fiber. For ****’s sake.
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My main concern about clipless pedals was not clipping into them, but the learning curve time frame to retrain my platform pedal muscle memory to quickly dismounting from clipless pedals. One incident of my getting caught off guard by a very strong gust of wind, off cambered footing, with the possibility of being locked in and flopping over into fast moving traffic, comes to mind.
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I disagree.
IMO, clipless is the most significant improvement in cycling in my lifetime. For me, connecting shoes to pedals significantly reduces fatigue, and clipless is far easier and safer for me to use than clips and straps. This has a much greater effect on my riding than integrated shifting, 8-9-10-11-?? speeds, disk brakes, or anything else (caveat: I haven't tried e-shifting, but it's hard to imagine that the effects of e-shift would outweigh the effects of clipless).
As BikerBilly used to say: YMMV
IMO, clipless is the most significant improvement in cycling in my lifetime. For me, connecting shoes to pedals significantly reduces fatigue, and clipless is far easier and safer for me to use than clips and straps. This has a much greater effect on my riding than integrated shifting, 8-9-10-11-?? speeds, disk brakes, or anything else (caveat: I haven't tried e-shifting, but it's hard to imagine that the effects of e-shift would outweigh the effects of clipless).
As BikerBilly used to say: YMMV
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#31
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Safety is a consideration
I recently saw an experienced looking cyclist (based on his equipment and attitude) up ahead of me, going up a hill, fall unexpectedly. As I approached him, struggling to get his feet unclipped from his pedals, I asked if he was OK and If he needed help. He was OK and said his chain came off and he didn't need help, despite the fact he still hadn't managed to get unclipped.
As an older cyclist, I'd be sad to break a hip or anything else over a chain coming off. It's pedals with toe clips, MTB shoes, straps not tightened, on my three bikes. Feet are secure and can't slip off pedals, and I can back out of them instantly. Safest setup of all, I think.
As an older cyclist, I'd be sad to break a hip or anything else over a chain coming off. It's pedals with toe clips, MTB shoes, straps not tightened, on my three bikes. Feet are secure and can't slip off pedals, and I can back out of them instantly. Safest setup of all, I think.
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I disagree.
IMO, clipless is the most significant improvement in cycling in my lifetime. For me, connecting shoes to pedals significantly reduces fatigue, and clipless is far easier and safer for me to use than clips and straps. This has a much greater effect on my riding than integrated shifting, 8-9-10-11-?? speeds, disk brakes, or anything else (caveat: I haven't tried e-shifting, but it's hard to imagine that the effects of e-shift would outweigh the effects of clipless).
As BikerBilly used to say: YMMV
IMO, clipless is the most significant improvement in cycling in my lifetime. For me, connecting shoes to pedals significantly reduces fatigue, and clipless is far easier and safer for me to use than clips and straps. This has a much greater effect on my riding than integrated shifting, 8-9-10-11-?? speeds, disk brakes, or anything else (caveat: I haven't tried e-shifting, but it's hard to imagine that the effects of e-shift would outweigh the effects of clipless).
As BikerBilly used to say: YMMV
Last edited by Litespud; 06-30-20 at 09:09 AM.
#33
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I read all of these pedal threads. I may be an oddball in that I use both. My road bike has clipless. My touring bike and my MTB have platforms. My MTB used to have clipless. I had platforms on the road bike but switched to clipless about a year and a half ago. I can see myself switching back to platforms. If there is an advantage to clipless, It is not readily apparent to me. There are disadvantages that have been apparent. I cannot recall my foot ever accidentally coming off the platforms. I can recall a number of times needing my foot to come off clipless and not being able to get it to come off quickly enough. I have also had a number of instances of struggling to get clipped in after a stop and my foot coming off a clipless pedal when I "missed."
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I am much more confident in my ability to transfer power to my pedals on clipless without mishap. My foot is in the same position and doesn't slide about - in a full gas sprint or even just riding hard generally, my foot is not going to slide off the pedal. In addition, with my Speedplays, my foot is adjusted to the angle that I need to reduce risk of knee injury.
Therefore, I much prefer clipless. My 29er XC MTB has them but my other MTB doesn't, it has flats as does my wife's e-MTB. So I ride both and know the difference. I prefer the security of clipless overall for the type of riding that I do where full gas efforts are required. Flats are great for when the terrain is very technical and I am needing to put my foot down more for balance although I wouldn't use flats for racing under any circumstances, but for fun rides they are fine. On my road bikes there is zero contest to begin with, I can ride harder with absolute confidence on clipless.
Therefore, I much prefer clipless. My 29er XC MTB has them but my other MTB doesn't, it has flats as does my wife's e-MTB. So I ride both and know the difference. I prefer the security of clipless overall for the type of riding that I do where full gas efforts are required. Flats are great for when the terrain is very technical and I am needing to put my foot down more for balance although I wouldn't use flats for racing under any circumstances, but for fun rides they are fine. On my road bikes there is zero contest to begin with, I can ride harder with absolute confidence on clipless.
#37
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On a stationary bike in a gym?- sure, use whatever shoe and amount of retention you want(none, straps, spd).
On a 10mi family ride for ice cream?- sure, use whatever shoe and amount of retention you want(none, straps, spd).
On an exercise/enthusiast/training ride?- Im clipping in every time. Hills suck even in the best of conditions, so why make them more difficult with platform pedals?
Ive always considered myself quite athletic with good balance, but maybe this is a time where I realize my balance isnt great because I see benefit in spd when standing and producing torque/swaying up a hill. Regardless, its a noticeable difference.
On a 10mi family ride for ice cream?- sure, use whatever shoe and amount of retention you want(none, straps, spd).
On an exercise/enthusiast/training ride?- Im clipping in every time. Hills suck even in the best of conditions, so why make them more difficult with platform pedals?
Ive always considered myself quite athletic with good balance, but maybe this is a time where I realize my balance isnt great because I see benefit in spd when standing and producing torque/swaying up a hill. Regardless, its a noticeable difference.
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#39
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These studies aren't too good on the flat/clipless thing.
The true way to measure this is to measure the delta from a shoe-insert running style power meter in the shoe worn combined with the hub based power data. Have the person hold ERG mode based on the hub based power and then read the energy input over a given time using the insole based power meter. Which in itself could be a problem given calibration discrepancies.
The squish in the shoes used on flat pedals keeps your foot in contact. That same squish costs energy. It takes energy to squish the foam in a shoe.
The true way to measure this is to measure the delta from a shoe-insert running style power meter in the shoe worn combined with the hub based power data. Have the person hold ERG mode based on the hub based power and then read the energy input over a given time using the insole based power meter. Which in itself could be a problem given calibration discrepancies.
The squish in the shoes used on flat pedals keeps your foot in contact. That same squish costs energy. It takes energy to squish the foam in a shoe.
#40
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I started using clipless recently. Aside from difficulty clicking in when the stoplight turns green, I like riding with clipless. As others have said, it helps your feet stay put when you are spinning fast.
However the downside is that it encourages sloppy pedaling. When I was riding my single speed bike with flat (with straps) pedals, occasionally I have to spin very fast. I notice that I have to focus on my pedal rounding motion to avoid having my feet come off the pedals. Whereas with the clipless pedals that's not a concern. You just stomp on the pedal any which way you like.
However the downside is that it encourages sloppy pedaling. When I was riding my single speed bike with flat (with straps) pedals, occasionally I have to spin very fast. I notice that I have to focus on my pedal rounding motion to avoid having my feet come off the pedals. Whereas with the clipless pedals that's not a concern. You just stomp on the pedal any which way you like.
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I picked up a set of nice pinned platforms when I bought my Hybrid (last summer). I intended to use the Hybrid for casual short rides so running shoes should have been fine.
I started using toe clips back in the late '70's and switched to SPD's in the late 90's. When I started riding with platforms something just didn't feel right. I thought it was the soft flexing sole of my running shoes so I tried riding with stiff hiking shoes.
I ended up swapping the platforms for a spare set of SPD's. My experiment was over.....to each their own.
I started using toe clips back in the late '70's and switched to SPD's in the late 90's. When I started riding with platforms something just didn't feel right. I thought it was the soft flexing sole of my running shoes so I tried riding with stiff hiking shoes.
I ended up swapping the platforms for a spare set of SPD's. My experiment was over.....to each their own.
#42
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I ride flats, toe clips and clipless, just so I can always "win" in the pedal war threads!
I can't remember ever having my foot come off a pedal unexpectedly. But if it did, I'd blame myself not my pedals.
If mechanical attachment to the pedal is necessary just to keep your feet on them, maybe you're doing it wrong.
If mechanical attachment to the pedal is necessary just to keep your feet on them, maybe you're doing it wrong.
#43
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I know people that ride extremely long distances on platform pedals, a.k.a. "infinite float." I have had problems with them. One time I noticed my knees were hurting and realized it was because I had placed my feet on my pedals all katywumpus. I have also pedaled for 20 miles one-legged because my knee got sore on a 400 km ride and I refused to make the call of shame.
My personal choice is flat pedals. Gave a shot at being clipped in a few times on various bicycles, & it just is not for me. For a R'bent, as mentioned in a prior post made by a BF member, I'd def want to be clipped.
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I used to race. Was taught to pedal circles. What a gift! I still do to this day. No, I do not actually lift my upcoming foot of the pedal most of time. but I still can and at times do. Not just climbing. If I don't tighten my toestraps (and yes, I do still use them), I lift my cleated shoe off the pedal regularly.
Now, racing is a little different from just riding around. For one thing, efficiency isn't everything. Crossing the finish line first is and that winner rarely rides the most efficient race. One reason I was taught to "spin circle" was to save the big muscles for when crunch time came in the late miles of the race, but also for the many pack accelerations all through the race. Found it interesting to see a study of the power circles of top level professional racers, American Cat 1/2 racers and strong non-racers, Those top pros had much more uniform power around the pedal circle. (At 300 watts, there's some lifting force happening, Flats don't work. But 300W, while a lot for us, is something the pros can sustain for a long time.)
Now maybe some day there will be "efficiency races" where the win goes to the rider who rode the most efficient race. Interesting concept but I won't watch. "We are awarding this plaque to George Bronkwoski for doing the least work over this 100 mile course."
As you have probably guessed already, I haven't ridden flats in 5 decades. Toeclips were one of my great breakthroughs. Cycling shoes, cleats and pulling the straps tight another. These were up there (or even above) dropped handlebars and sew-up tires in my evolution from newbie to fully conditioned racer.
Edit: My knees insist on no-float pedal systems. With float locked out, clipless pedals and toeclips with straps pulled are identical riding until you come to a stop and have to remember to reach down and release the straps. I use both, toeclips on my fix gears (for the security of being strapped jn even if I unclip spinning crazy RPMs going downhill) and the black LOOK cleats and pedals on my geared bikes.
Ben
Now, racing is a little different from just riding around. For one thing, efficiency isn't everything. Crossing the finish line first is and that winner rarely rides the most efficient race. One reason I was taught to "spin circle" was to save the big muscles for when crunch time came in the late miles of the race, but also for the many pack accelerations all through the race. Found it interesting to see a study of the power circles of top level professional racers, American Cat 1/2 racers and strong non-racers, Those top pros had much more uniform power around the pedal circle. (At 300 watts, there's some lifting force happening, Flats don't work. But 300W, while a lot for us, is something the pros can sustain for a long time.)
Now maybe some day there will be "efficiency races" where the win goes to the rider who rode the most efficient race. Interesting concept but I won't watch. "We are awarding this plaque to George Bronkwoski for doing the least work over this 100 mile course."
As you have probably guessed already, I haven't ridden flats in 5 decades. Toeclips were one of my great breakthroughs. Cycling shoes, cleats and pulling the straps tight another. These were up there (or even above) dropped handlebars and sew-up tires in my evolution from newbie to fully conditioned racer.
Edit: My knees insist on no-float pedal systems. With float locked out, clipless pedals and toeclips with straps pulled are identical riding until you come to a stop and have to remember to reach down and release the straps. I use both, toeclips on my fix gears (for the security of being strapped jn even if I unclip spinning crazy RPMs going downhill) and the black LOOK cleats and pedals on my geared bikes.
Ben
Last edited by 79pmooney; 06-30-20 at 11:05 AM.
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I have repeatedly found that clipless pedals fail to release in the presence of beautiful women. Can't explain it, but easy to reproduce.
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Riding flats around town, for short distances - fine.
Flats on a multi-hour ride at 90+ cadence? No thanks.
I tried using flats on our tandem while I was getting used to it. Hated it. Sore under the balls of my feet; sore calves, having to keep to a lower cadence, bah. Switched my clipless pedals over from my single, felt better immediately. Haven't gone down yet (5+ years), despite significant toe overlap, which is more of an issue than on my single because we ride very slowly more often, I hit the front wheel with my toe nearly every ride, no problems going down or unclipping.
Glad that there are options, and that others find that other solutions work as well for them as clipless does for me.
I don't care about the study, for me clipless pedals just work. Period.
Flats on a multi-hour ride at 90+ cadence? No thanks.
I tried using flats on our tandem while I was getting used to it. Hated it. Sore under the balls of my feet; sore calves, having to keep to a lower cadence, bah. Switched my clipless pedals over from my single, felt better immediately. Haven't gone down yet (5+ years), despite significant toe overlap, which is more of an issue than on my single because we ride very slowly more often, I hit the front wheel with my toe nearly every ride, no problems going down or unclipping.
Glad that there are options, and that others find that other solutions work as well for them as clipless does for me.
I don't care about the study, for me clipless pedals just work. Period.
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Tri guys do some weird things with their pedal strokes to ‘save’ their legs for the run