Aidoneus

As I’ve seen conflicting suggestions for fore-aft weight distribution, I am hoping to hear some of the theoretical/practical reasons for different choices. For example, for long stretches of low gradient inclines/declines does it matter much? How about steeper grades? Lots of switchbacks? Singletrack? Etc. For reference, I will be loading a Surly Ogre for road and some off-road touring. Thanks in advance for any information/advice.

Cyclebum

A balanced load on the bike makes for a more stable ride. Most will suggest 40% up front. More is probably better to counterbalance the weight of the rider and the load on the back. OTOH, you can get use to having all the weight on the back if you don't have or need front panniers. I have toured in warm weather with front panniers only and a rack pack. That's makes for a pretty balanced load.

I doubt the gradient of the route has much relativity to load balance. The purpose of balancing the weight distribution is stability.

saddlesores

kinda pointless discussion as general front/rear loading has
been covered many times before.

you wanna know about your particular situation? how 'bout
some details? you one of them crazy ultralighters with 10
pounds of gear? or p'haps you're carrying 150 pounds in 4
panniers and a hello kitty fannypack?

how conflicted are you? what's your preferred (up to now)
weight distribution? tried any alternatives?

Aidoneus

I did see a very short thread from five years ago. I will see if I can find any other threads. I haven't done any touring, yet. I haven't bought any racks or panniers, yet. I haven't even decided on what I will pack, yet.

I did just find some info on Axiom Streamliner Disc rear racks and Axiom Aero 45 Panniers (https://www.axiomgear.com/products/racks/streamliner/). I am tentatively thinking of just loading the 45 litre bags, maybe putting a bear can on top, and going with a Jones handlebar bag for a few electronics, and maybe a small feedbag on the handlebar. Maybe a framebag, too. Including bike tools, none of which I have, yet, I will probably load about 50 pounds.

elcruxio

One school of thought in this is about the bike trail, so low trail bikes handle front loads better while high trail bikes handle rear loads better. For example I'd load a Surly LHT 40/60 front rear. The ogre is a mountain bike though so I have no idea about that. I'd suppose it's a high trail bike so more rear bias should be the better choice.

If you're going to be doing a lot of singletrack, then perhaps racks aren't the right choice, especially if you are going to load them heavily. Racks are attached with relatively small screws, which is completely fine for roads, or even dirt, but going actually MTB'ing is going to stress those screws a lot. You do see off road tourers using racks quite often, but those usually hold the bulky light stuff such as sleeping bag etc. and the heavier stuff is in frame bags and/or backpack

saddlesores

you realize you going about this all backwards, right?

never done any touring, don't know what you'll take, don't know where you'll
tour, don't know the terrain, don't know the limits, don't have....well....anything!

seems foolish to me to buy bags and then fill them....which leads to overpacking,
since you'll buy the biggest bags, and of course the packing list expands to fill
all available space.

so....umm......do you, like, uh.....have a bicycle yet?

Aidoneus

Well...I bought a Surly Ogre, though I haven't picked it up, yet. LOL

As for camping equipment, I have experience and equipment from multi-week backpacking PCT, Gilla Wilderness, inside the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone and Bridger-Teton Forests, and Indiana forests. You did notice I was looking at 45 litre (total) bags, right? Hardly the size for carrying the kitchen sink. So, I am researching a flexible system, suitable for a Surly Ogre, as I mentioned in my post. As for a route, I'm now thinking my first tour will be Route 66 to TransAmerica to Colorado, or possibly Utah if I can handle the grade. If climbing gets to be too much in Colorado for this old geezer, I can just turn around!
@elcruxio: Yeah, I thought that I read something along those lines in a mountain bike forum.

bikemig 

45 liters is not a large amount of capacity. You might want to forgo the front rack at least to save some weight and go with some bike packing type bags like this,

Revelate Designs LLC

You can also check these out,

Anything Cage HD | Parts & Accessories | Salsa Cycles

Alternatively, with 45 liters and careful packing, you could easily get away with a rear rack and 2 panniers and a smallish front bag.

mstateglfr 

https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1035089-60-front-40-back-recommended-weight-distribution-what-your-opinion.html
Here is an extended thread that’s recent.Good info in there.



This is all preference.There isnt a hard set rule that must be followed one way or the other.As a result, people are all over the spectrum on preference.I will say that its an interesting topic for me for the very reason that there is no right or wrong answer.

I have done both the 4 bag setup and the rear only setup.My views are-

• 4 bag setup is much better for balance.
  
• 2 bag setup is much better for convenience.

I have some 45L Axiom panniers and with both fully loaded, the front end of my bike really easily rises up.It rides perfectly fine, but every trip ive taken with fully loaded rears only has been relatively flat with gradual slight inclines.With steep hills, rear only weight becomes more of an issue both going up and coming down.
Ill continue to do some rides(shorter intra-state trips) with the rears only because they are convenient.Having only 2 bags instead of 4 means less to carry around and less to have to clip to my bike.I can also use my favorite bike as it only has a rear rack.



If you do go the 2 bag route, perhaps consider still having a front rack to carry some items.Depending on the rack(platform style), you could lash that bear canister to it and/or some bulky things like the sleeping bag or tent.Itll take some bulk from the rear panniers away and help offset the weight imbalance.

Aidoneus

Thank you for finding that thread for me, I will read it thoroughly!

Yeah, I plan on starting with these relatively small (by backpacking standards, anyway) rear panniers. (Except for winter camping, I always carried a pretty light backpacking load--certainly under 50 pounds, including food and water. No, I wasn't one of those ultra-light nuts on the PCT surviving with a fanny pack and drop shipments! Anyway, they always seemed to be trying to "borrow" something--reminds me of Thoreau, actually. LOL) I don't know yet how much bike tools and parts is reasonable for a multi-week trip, though. Assuming, that is, that I don't want to depend on my credit card for minor troubles! I also figure to add a handlebar bag to the Jones loop handlebar for a few electronic gizmos. (I have my not-so LBS installing a Son 28 front hub and a Plug III to keep them charged.) The reason I mentioned a framebag was that, in (my) theory, a small one seemed like it might be useful for a few (greasy?) bike tools, a spare tube, and assorted repair items. I really need to see how adding more weight to the front feels before deciding on a front rack or a bigger handlebar bag, such as the Revelate Sweetroll.

fietsbob

because you will drag the low riders on the brush and terrain single track , with tricky single track switch backs ..

think Bike Backing super light setups ..

though people do use the suspended rear wheel BoB .. [There is a German made one too but you wont like the price]

chasm54

If you're carrying less than 30lbs I'd say you're good with rear bags only. More than 40lbs, definitely go the 4-bag route. Between 30 and 40, take your pick; but the heavier you go, the more the handling will benefit from putting a reasonable amount of the weight up front.

40lbs is about as heavy as I've gone. 25-30 rear, 10-15 front worked well for me and provided a very stable and predictable ride.

EDIT. You don't need a huge weight in tools. A multi-tool, a chainbreaker, a few spare links, a few spare spokes, spare brake and gear cables, a spoke wrench, some tyre levers, a couple of spare tubes and a patch kit is about all. That's been sufficient for me on an 8-week trip, anyway.

Aidoneus

I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean that low-rider front panniers will drag off-road? Or that the rear Axiom rack/panniers will drag off-road?

I thought these Axiom panniers were pushed back for heel clearance. Not particularly lowered. Or do you think that most any rear panniers will be problematic off-road?

Aidoneus

How much would your bike tools/stuff weigh? Wouldn't that fill a small frame bag?

Squeezebox

And will I need a cassette tool so I can get to the right rear spokes?

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I do not have a touring bicycle yet. I'm looking at the Trek 720 because the fork bags would save wt. of a front rack and lighter than front panniers. 20-30 L rear bags, a handlebar bag, and the light bulky stuff tied to the top of the rear rack. I'm not wedded to disk brakes. I'm wanting something closer to road geometry rather than touring. I'm willing to adjust gearing. I'm nowhere close to making any final decisions. And I do appreciate your opinions, Even though I have been rude! Sorry for that.

fietsbob

IDK which end of the bike you are concerned about.

chasm54

Nope. I tape the spokes inside the seatpost. The rest fits in the outside pocket of a Vaude rear pannier. I'd say that together they weigh not much more than one pound, certainly nowhere near two.

chasm54

If you break a spoke on the drive side you're going to need to remove the cassette, yes. There are options here. If you are a long way from civilisation then yes, a lockring tool plus the appropriate wrench and a length of chain plus some zipties will be needed. The wrench will add weight, of course. If you aren't far from towns, you might decide to just true the wheel and head for a bike shop. On a 36 spoke rear wheel this should be OK, depending on how heavily loaded you are and the surfaces you're riding over.

Edit. Zipties are good to have anyway, and weigh nothing. And I should have included duct tape in my list, it works miracles.

Tourist in MSN

Low rider front panniers are usually ... low riding ... where rear panniers rarely are much below axle level.

It all depends on where you go but if it was me I would keep all my stuff at or above axle level.

Tourist in MSN

Several years ago I started a thread on how to get by without a chain whip. Several other posters added more ideas to that thread.

www.bikeforums.net/touring/805202-chain-whip-travel.html

I prefer a cassette tool over the tools that use a frame for leverage. I filed down two of the flats on it to allow a smaller crescent wrench to fit.

Spare spokes in seatpost held in with a wine cork, I used some electrical tape to make the cork fit tighter after it dried out.

rifraf

As an Ogre owner, what works for me is 4 panniers and a 30 litre rack pack.
Spread the weight around as the Ogre has more flex than I expected and will wiggle if you load the rear too much.
Depending on the duration of your intended tours, don't write off forgoing the panniers and going with a trailer loaded with a backpack.
Two wheels for tarmac or single wheel for rough stuff.
The Ogre is a versatile machine and will lend itself to a multitude of luggage options and trail surfaces.
Enjoy!

imi

Another way of doing that is just to wrap them together with a zip-tie. Don't cut the end, just coil it around.

Aidoneus

You brought up low riders. I was only talking about a rear rack and panniers. In particular, the Axiom pair, which don't seem to be as low as some other systems I've looked at online.

fietsbob

Fine, I shop In person then you can test fit stuff on the bike.. Axiom is a factory-less brand name.
jobbed out to China to make it ..But what isn't these days ?
they sell a Lot of stuff wearing that Logo .. https://www.axiomgear.com/ My LBS can Get The stuff..


I cannot Guess which exact products you are into.

Rear only of course you will be Tail Heavy.

Maybe the big Bike packing under saddle bag will hold the stuff you really cannot Live without + a bag across Your Handlebars ..

June the Transcontinental Self supported Bike Race Left Here , bike Packing gear was popular amongst the 40 competitors .

mstateglfr 

Ever the need to point out made in China, as if that has anything to do with the topic.So Axiom panniers are like Apple’s iphone.Perfect.

You can test Axiom products in a store.