Identify 70's Italian(?) road bike
11-09-19, 09:45 PM
#1
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Identify 70's Italian(?) road bike
I picked this up at a nearby garage sale months ago and just got around to looking closer at it. The seller told me it was an Italian brand (he told me the brand but unfortunately I have forgotten). It's not nearly big enough for me but I like the Stronglight crankset and thought I might use it on an old Peugeot frame.
It's not really an exciting bike given the other components, but if anyone can recognize it based on the photos, components and serial number 806996, I am curious to know what it is.
Stronglight 93 crankset 45/52
Universal Super 68 brakes
Suntour Power shifters
Suntour V rear derailleur
Suntour SL front derailleur
Simplex dropouts
Atax stem
Stronglight Competition headset
Iberia Cursa pedals
It's not really an exciting bike given the other components, but if anyone can recognize it based on the photos, components and serial number 806996, I am curious to know what it is.
Stronglight 93 crankset 45/52
Universal Super 68 brakes
Suntour Power shifters
Suntour V rear derailleur
Suntour SL front derailleur
Simplex dropouts
Atax stem
Stronglight Competition headset
Iberia Cursa pedals
11-09-19, 10:14 PM
#2
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Between the Stronglight and Atax components and the Simplex dropouts it is most likely French, not Italian. Measure the bottom bracket shell width and remove the bottom bracket to check threading. A French bb shell will be 68mm and Italian will be 70mm.
Also check the seatpost size and tubing outer diameter to see if it is metric tubing or inch tubing. If metric it is most likely a French frame.
Likewise the steerer tube inner diameter and threading will tell you French or Italian.
Another hint: if the crankset is original, it will be helpful to note the pedal threading. French thread will certainly indicate a French bike, but English threads don't discount it being French. Many French imports to the US in the 70s came with English-threaded cranks.
Also check the seatpost size and tubing outer diameter to see if it is metric tubing or inch tubing. If metric it is most likely a French frame.
Likewise the steerer tube inner diameter and threading will tell you French or Italian.
Another hint: if the crankset is original, it will be helpful to note the pedal threading. French thread will certainly indicate a French bike, but English threads don't discount it being French. Many French imports to the US in the 70s came with English-threaded cranks.
Last edited by TenGrainBread; 11-09-19 at 10:27 PM.
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11-09-19, 11:07 PM
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For pedal thread there should be no need to measure.
The backside of the crank arms are marked with the pedal thread.
The frame certainly looks like a Peugeot PX-10E save for the crown.
Have never seen one wearing this crown. Crown appears welded. One would expect a forged crown for a PX. Is there a hardwood plug in the bottom of the steerer? Are fork ends Simplex forged? They appear stamped in what can be seen in the photo.
Tentative ID: an early 70's Peugeot PX-10E with a non-original fork.
Sadly, it has been the wearer of a kickstand in the past.
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For pedal thread there should be no need to measure.
The backside of the crank arms are marked with the pedal thread.
The frame certainly looks like a Peugeot PX-10E save for the crown.
Have never seen one wearing this crown. Crown appears welded. One would expect a forged crown for a PX. Is there a hardwood plug in the bottom of the steerer? Are fork ends Simplex forged? They appear stamped in what can be seen in the photo.
Tentative ID: an early 70's Peugeot PX-10E with a non-original fork.
Sadly, it has been the wearer of a kickstand in the past.
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Last edited by juvela; 11-09-19 at 11:41 PM. Reason: addition
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11-10-19, 08:07 AM
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KillerBeagle-
As mentioned by others, probably a Peugeot PX 10. The rear dropouts only are Simplex but the fork is a replacement Raleigh based on the Raleigh style stamped dropouts and pressed fork crown. It is most likely off of a lower end bike like a Raleigh Record. The seat post bolt is also off a Raleigh and will be Whitworth dimensioned. The fixed cup should have 8 sides and 1 ring machined into the face if it is French threaded.
As mentioned by others, probably a Peugeot PX 10. The rear dropouts only are Simplex but the fork is a replacement Raleigh based on the Raleigh style stamped dropouts and pressed fork crown. It is most likely off of a lower end bike like a Raleigh Record. The seat post bolt is also off a Raleigh and will be Whitworth dimensioned. The fixed cup should have 8 sides and 1 ring machined into the face if it is French threaded.
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11-10-19, 08:09 AM
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Maybe y'all see them all the time, but that drain plug (or is it a very unusual place to mount a water bottle? 
) in the bottom bracket is something I've never seen before.
And I've only see that shape holes in the hub flanges on Schwinns (could be a replacement wheel?) YMMV.
) in the bottom bracket is something I've never seen before. And I've only see that shape holes in the hub flanges on Schwinns (could be a replacement wheel?) YMMV.
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Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
11-10-19, 08:37 AM
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Raleigh seat binder manufactured by Gripfast.
Original would have been an ALGI.
Whenever you see a replacement fork, as in this case, you want to carefully examine frame for any collision damage.
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Raleigh seat binder manufactured by Gripfast.
Original would have been an ALGI.
Whenever you see a replacement fork, as in this case, you want to carefully examine frame for any collision damage.
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11-10-19, 09:51 AM
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I'm not convinced that it is French. The BB appears to be OEM Stronglight and the the lockring doesn't appear to be the 6 notch style used on the French threaded versions. It looks like it may be the 4 notch version see on the English and Italian threaded models..
11-10-19, 10:14 AM
#8
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Use calipers on frame tubes. 28.6 millimetres on seat tube and down tube is everything but French. French is 28.0mm. 28.6 is also known as 1-1/8" and the French could not do that.
Looks like the seat post may be undersized for that frame. Check fit. Check that seatlug is not smashed.
Puzzled by the bottombracket drain with a plug in it. Original?
Looks like the seat post may be undersized for that frame. Check fit. Check that seatlug is not smashed.
Puzzled by the bottombracket drain with a plug in it. Original?
11-10-19, 10:23 AM
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Chromed stays. Stronglight cranks and headset. Simplex dropouts. 45/52 chainrings. All points to Peugeot PX10 early seventies by the lugs.
Poor thing.. somebody sprayed it with a can.
Poor thing.. somebody sprayed it with a can.
11-10-19, 11:23 AM
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Bottom bracket lockring is not Stronglight. Doggs on Stronglight lockrings always have square bottoms. Dogg bottoms here are U-shaped.
Machine so heavily cobbled we should not be surprised...
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Bottom bracket plug -
there was a period in the late sixties - early seventies when PX-10 shells came with this feature. purchased one new in 1970 and it was present.
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Bottom bracket lockring is not Stronglight. Doggs on Stronglight lockrings always have square bottoms. Dogg bottoms here are U-shaped.
Machine so heavily cobbled we should not be surprised...
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Bottom bracket plug -
there was a period in the late sixties - early seventies when PX-10 shells came with this feature. purchased one new in 1970 and it was present.
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11-10-19, 12:54 PM
#11
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Cracked crank arm
Dents in chainstay
Thank you for all the insights. I am always astonished by what you all can tell from a few photos!
I checked a few items that were mentioned. Unfortunately my calipers are AWOL so I can't measure the tubing yet.
Bottom bracket shell width is 68mm.
No wood plugs in the steerer. Fork ends are stamped.
The crank arms are marked 14 x 125. Length is 170.
The fixed cup has 8 sides and a single ring. The other cup does not look like what I expected on a Stronglight BB. Mismatched cups?
Sadly when pulling the crankset I found that the left crank arm is badly cracked (see picture); I didn't even need the puller to remove it. The crankset was the main reason (besides nostalgia) that I bought it. Also, there are two small dents in the chain stay on the left side (another picture) that make me question the frame's safety (though I don't see any problems in the other tubes). So, I think most of this will be going to the metal recyclers. But, my $10 wasn't wasted, because it was fun to take apart and learn about.
Last edited by KillerBeagle; 11-10-19 at 04:46 PM. Reason: added comment on bottom bracket cup
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11-10-19, 08:13 PM
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Nonsense. If the frame is still straight and there are no obvious signs of damage besides the chainstay dent, it's good to go. Plus you have quite a few other great components on there, including the Universal sidepull brakes. Plus you can often find orphaned non-drive-side cranks online and at bike coops. I'm sure you can find a replacement for that arm.
11-12-19, 09:49 AM
#14
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Lot's of Peugeots in the early years used Nervex lugs. Could be a PA10 etc.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...html?styleid=9
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...html?styleid=9
11-12-19, 10:05 AM
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Couple things:
French thread on the crank is telling. Would be interesting to know the BB threading, Stronglight used octagonal fixed cup, but I don't recall ever seeing the adjustible cup you have there, so I think your BB could potentially be mis-matched.
On the crank crack, it happens. Myself and several others on here probably have an orphaned left crank arm for that crankset, I bought a matching crankset on eBay only to get it and find it had a hairline crack from the dustcap threads of the drive-side arm up to the spider. Whether or not you'll find w/French pedal thread is another story. I can look. However, if you wanted to recoup some $$, I'd be interested in your orphaned right arm, I'd be willing to trade a complete crankset. I have a few things available.
Down tube and seat tube dents suck to find! Found same on a Libertas a few years back, hidden under the front mech clamp, caused by someone using a derailleur with too small of a clamp, it looks like. Clamp did a great job of obscuring it, as did the oxidized paint.
I get the suspicion this is actually French, Since it's a re-spray I would consider the fork has potentially been replaced, probably with something standard/ISO (or Italian?) thread because someone needed to replace the headset or fork for some reason and couldn't find French threaded stuff.
Since you'll probably want to strip it anyway, no reason you can't attempt to repair the dents! Maybe some frame blocks would help get it closer to round.
French thread on the crank is telling. Would be interesting to know the BB threading, Stronglight used octagonal fixed cup, but I don't recall ever seeing the adjustible cup you have there, so I think your BB could potentially be mis-matched.
On the crank crack, it happens. Myself and several others on here probably have an orphaned left crank arm for that crankset, I bought a matching crankset on eBay only to get it and find it had a hairline crack from the dustcap threads of the drive-side arm up to the spider. Whether or not you'll find w/French pedal thread is another story. I can look. However, if you wanted to recoup some $$, I'd be interested in your orphaned right arm, I'd be willing to trade a complete crankset. I have a few things available.
Down tube and seat tube dents suck to find! Found same on a Libertas a few years back, hidden under the front mech clamp, caused by someone using a derailleur with too small of a clamp, it looks like. Clamp did a great job of obscuring it, as did the oxidized paint.
I get the suspicion this is actually French, Since it's a re-spray I would consider the fork has potentially been replaced, probably with something standard/ISO (or Italian?) thread because someone needed to replace the headset or fork for some reason and couldn't find French threaded stuff.
Since you'll probably want to strip it anyway, no reason you can't attempt to repair the dents! Maybe some frame blocks would help get it closer to round.
