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So what's your beef with Multi-Use Pathes?

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So what's your beef with Multi-Use Pathes?

Old 05-02-20, 11:03 PM
  #101  
Oneder
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The pedestrians pretty much, especially now with covid 19 and having some sweaty guy breathing like a dying mule all over the trail and many more people on the path. Before that there was barely anyone now it's more of a problem. I can't see why these people even want to go on the path, just do laps around your track for exercise. I would do that myself but then there are even more peds especially this one idiot who always yells at me to get a horn every single time, and blocks the whole sidewalk with him and his dog and won't move over. EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

I use the trail for safety mainly but if it's going to be a constant struggle to pass people without getting clobbered from the other direction then it may not be worth it any more.
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Old 05-02-20, 11:10 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Vintage Schwinn View Post
Many times it is necessary for a municipality/township/county to impose written ordinances and post a maximum speed limits of 12 MPH.
Prohibiting skateboarding and prohibiting any form of motorized transportation (scooters, segways, golf carts, electric bicycles, gas powered bicycles, mopeds, motorbikes, motorcycles, smartcars, tractors, riding lawnmowers, cars, trucks, suvs, etc...) EXCEPT for OFFICIAL MUNICIPAL MAINTAINENCE/ PARK RANGER/PARK POLICE or EMERGENCY and LAW ENFORCEMENT, or other AUTHORIZED OFFICIAL VEHICLES!
Have the law enforcement officers that monitor and patrol the path to serve and protect the safety of the Path users, should have a the discretion to determine whether they wish to write up and cite any cyclist with a $250 citation for SPEEDING and OR GOING TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS / RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT, -or- whether they wish to simply issue a Warning.
You simply cannot have folks that think it is okay to ride on such Multi-Use Paths at anything but a SLOW speed. Twelve miles per hour is swift enough as a compromise that gives a slow enough 10, 11, to 12mph speed that can keep the cyclist moving forward slowly enough, but swiftly enough and yet safe enough so that the cyclist can SLOW to 6 or 7 mph or a complete stop if that is necessary. You have CHILDREN and Animals, both of which are almost never predictable in whatever direction that they might waddle, weave, stop, or turn, or quickly dart. These multi-use paths were generally Not built for the sole purpose of some few arrogant fast riding roadbike warriors who feel that they are entitled to ride as fast as they wish to on these paths even in the presence of elderly folks, young parents with babies in strollers, folks walking dogs, folks from 3 years old to 102 years old all moving very leisurely..................-you've got folks jogging- running for exercise and you've got folks jogging-running with the baby in the jog-stroller ahead of them...........people eating moonpies, drinking coca-colas, eating ice cream, talking, sharing moments laughing and a quick hug or a quick kiss.........folks who are not in a hurry but who are enjoying the moments outdoors with the family and friends while slowly strolling with the dogs and the kids, and aunt jane, uncle bill, and grandpa and grandma. Joggers and runners have historically been more courteous and less selfish towards those folks that are just slowly wandering along the path with no particular pattern of movement with no particular place to go. Sure, these people that largely fill these multi-use paths are wandering randomly all over with their dogs and children moving even more unpredicably. That is the nature of human behavior of this type. They are using the path. These folks make up the largest population that uses the path. Thus, for bicycle riders to be able to comingle and move about the path, the bicycle rider MUST UNDERSTAND that there is a fundamental requirement that they move along at a SLOW PACE that is safe enough for all the people, animals, children, and the cyclists too. Yes, there is probably no doubt that most cyclists are focused and concentrating on safe movement, much more than the wandering-strolling-eeezin on down the road pedestrians/children/dogs that are wandering along in no logical or predictable patterns. That is just the way it is.
You cannot expect that the mass of the "on their feet" walkin along-walkin the dogs n kids down the long and winding road crowd to behave or stroll along in an orderly or single file or orderly military style parade march. What you have essentially is organized chaos with zig-zagging dogs, children and walking adults and jogging joggers among folks that are stopped and standing in place, and or changing directions....etc........--------YOU JUST CANNOT HAVE CYCLISTS TRAVELLING AT SPEEDS IN EXCESS OF 12 MPH AT ANY TIME THAT ANY OTHER PEDESTRIAN HUMANS/PETS ARE WITHIN 500 YARDS (1500 feet) of THE PERSON RIDING THE BICYCLE.------------. This is why the 12 MPH SPEED LIMIT is essential.
There needs to be enforcement if cyclists fail see the need to travel along and among the pedestrians/dogs and children at a Slow Pace!
Stiff fines are perhaps one way. Another possible way to combat excess speed is strategic placement of speed bumps if all other measures do not work.
Establishing ordinances and official posted speed limits will also serve to give legal responsibility and notice to any cyclist that chooses to disregard the official posted speed limit, and thus then finds that have a collision or accident with anyone or anyone's child, or pet, then in such a situation, depending on the circumstances and "speed" involved, the cyclist may find that there may be contributory negligence and reckless conduct on their part because they were riding too fast.
I am not promoting a lawyer versus lawyer sort it out that way type of thing, but if people cannot realize that you can't ride full out on such a populated path with slow moving people, children and dogs....... Everybody has an excellent video camera on their phone!
Some cyclists need to realize that the arrogant attitude of well I just can't ride that slow, just is unacceptable!! IF YOU CANNOT RIDE SLOW ENOUGH SUCH THAT YOU ARE BOTH OBEYING THE SPEED LIMIT AND ALSO RIDING AT A SAFE SPEED FOR THE PREVAILING CONDITIONS, THEN PERHAPS YOU SHOULD NOT BE RIDING ON A MULTI-USE PATH WITH SPEED LIMIT AND HEAVY PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC IF YOU MUST RIDE AT GREATER SPEED.
I hardly ever see any cyclist being dangerous but when I do they are going more like 30 mph. I don't think you need to be hard limited to 12 (why not 13 or even 15?) but 30 mph is clearly way too fast for anything but a one way race track. If you want to go that fast you should be out on the street not on a trail.
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Old 05-03-20, 09:41 PM
  #103  
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We're supposed to still be in lock-down but the trails are full of people. The authorities have blocked park the entrances but people are finding alternate places to park and walk in anyways.

I had to go somewhere but with the trails full of people, I can only follow behind at least 6 feet until it's clear to pass. In an opening, I got onto the grass and cycled past crowd. On the way back home, I just took the street.
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Old 05-04-20, 11:46 AM
  #104  
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MUP users, like drivers, are good 95% of the time. It's the 5% that make one want to go postal, though.

Yesterday, that was a family of 5, stopped (with their bikes), spread across the whole MUP One of them saw me coming and moved, but either didn't say anything, or everyone else ignored her. I rang my bell to no effect. After the 3rd ring being ignored, they got the horn. That got them to move. I don't feel bad that I obviously startled a couple of them. They should really be paying a little more attention. And this part's important: IF YOU STOP ON THE MUP, GET OFF TO THE SIDE!!
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Old 05-05-20, 05:49 AM
  #105  
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Too many people ignoring distancing precautions. Here north of Atlanta pedestrians are back to walking in bunches, taking up most of the path. Cyclists will buzz you within a couple of feet even when the way is clear and they've got 8=20 feet of room to pass. Which is normal on the Greenway but you'd think they'd give at least a token respect to the distancing rules. It's hazardous enough for a run, but I haven't taken a bike there in at least a month.
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Old 05-05-20, 07:59 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
Too many people ignoring distancing precautions. Here north of Atlanta pedestrians are back to walking in bunches, taking up most of the path. Cyclists will buzz you within a couple of feet even when the way is clear and they've got 8=20 feet of room to pass. Which is normal on the Greenway but you'd think they'd give at least a token respect to the distancing rules. It's hazardous enough for a run, but I haven't taken a bike there in at least a month.
Why distance? The lockdown is over in Georgia.
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Old 05-05-20, 11:24 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam View Post
Why distance? The lockdown is over in Georgia.
As far as you could tell from watching people anyway. I can't help but wonder if there ever was one, for some people. I wish they'd go bowling or to a massage parlor instead of the greenway though.
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Old 05-05-20, 11:43 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Oneder View Post
I hardly ever see any cyclist being dangerous but when I do they are going more like 30 mph. I don't think you need to be hard limited to 12 (why not 13 or even 15?) but 30 mph is clearly way too fast for anything but a one way race track. If you want to go that fast you should be out on the street not on a trail.
I have been actually run off the MUP at least 3 times by head down racer boy types that are not watching where they are riding. They were staring at their front wheels, which DF riders say then never do.
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Old 05-05-20, 11:48 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
I have been actually run off the MUP at least 3 times by head down racer boy types that are not watching where they are riding. They were staring at their front wheels, which DF riders say then never do.
Airzound for the win!!! Gotta get them outta their (unaware) zone.
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Old 05-05-20, 01:01 PM
  #110  
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I don't even see them til they whiz past, considering the bends on the trail it's a miracle they don't crash into anyone. Though there is nothing to say they don't I suppose. I am just thankful not many people ride here due to the weather or it would be a nightmare.
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Old 05-06-20, 10:45 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Digger Goreman View Post
Airzound for the win!!! Gotta get them outta their (unaware) zone.
I wish I did have one those times.
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Old 05-11-20, 05:32 PM
  #112  
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This is a topic of huge interest to me.

This has been a topic of interest to me for decades. Iíve pasted in a reworked opinion piece I wrote a while back. Maybe itís long for this format, Iím still learning protocol on this forum but it is an important topic. The bottom line for me is that I expect other people to do boneheaded and dangerous things and I prepare for it. I canít change them but I CAN take steps to keep myself safe Ė sometimes that means I just donít ride on the multi-use path. Itís just not that important to me to be right, or assert my right to be there when I have other options. Iíd rather live to ride another day.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



This dynamic happens in so many places where we must share space Ė Whole Foods and Trader Joeís parking lots for example where you can cut the tension between motorists and pedestrians with a spoon. When I learned to drive, 40 years ago, the instructor told me to drive defensively and plan for the worst because pedestrians and other drivers are clueless. So, when Iím driving, there is the example of kids on the sidewalk who I know might run into the street. They probably wonít but they might. Several times Iíve been glad I was so cautious as they ran out and I had time to stop. Or there is that annoying person who canít follow the one car after another flow when merging and just has to speed up and squeeze in front of me. Yeah, heís being an idiot, breaking the rules and endangering others Ė Iíll not argue that fact. So, I can make a big deal out of it, fight for my right to be ahead of him or back off, let it go and let him have his space ahead of me and go have his accident elsewhere. I watch for people like him, I can see what theyíre up to as they come up from behind, I canít control them but I can control whether I decide to get angry and add to the danger or try and mitigate it.



If my local multi-use path is crowded with pedestrians and people on town bikes, I opt to use the road parallel to it because I know I wonít have as good a workout if I take the path because itís unsafe to ride fast. It. Is. What. It. Is. Iím not going to put myself in a position where Iím going to feel frustrated and oh, theyíve a right to be there too. There are times when there is barely anyone else on the path and I love riding it then. It didnít take much effort to suss the best for me to use it. But hereís the thing, If I choose to go on that path, I set my expectations and prepare knowing not everyone is as enlightened or aware as I am (read sarcasm). The chances that Iíll fly around a curve and find a pedestrian or other cyclist in my path are high. On the road, I donít have that concern as much because itís straighter, very few pedestrians use it and there are no trees obscuring my view. Iíve learned to understand the behaviors of pedestrians and other users, the different kinds of cyclists and I often think so many of these issues would be resolved if people accepted that other people do stupid things and then changed their expectations and behaviors to account for that. If I know I canít rely on other people to do the right thing, maybe I should adapt to protect myself:
  • If I see people on what look to be rental bikes, who look like tourists Ė I know they are admiring the scenery, they may have been drinking and are not really paying attention to whatís happening on the path around them. I can think them idiots all day long but they arenít going to change for me. I expect that they will probably swerve suddenly so I am cautious, slow down and make sure they respond to my call out before I pass them.
  • I expect that kids will stop or swerve suddenly. If I see a family or kids, I slow down. I donít ride past them going 20/25 mph Ė sorry if this annoys you but if youíre doing that, you are courting disaster and you are a part of the problem. Thatís the deal I make when I use a multi-use path, I might have to slow down or acknowledge that it is a multi-use path.
  • I know that joggers swerve suddenly Ė itís just what they do. Again, if I know this and Iíve made a choice to go on a path where there are joggers, I plan for them to do what joggers do. I donít ride past them going 25 mph and I pass cautiously unless I can clearly see theyíve responded to my bell or vocal warning that I am going to pass on their left Ė even then, I am still wary of them.
  • When you come on someone at high speed and shout Ďbehind youí or Ďon your leftí without slowing, pedestrians and inexperienced cyclists often panic, confuse their right and left, and will sometimes move in the wrong direction. You must expect that people are going to do the wrong, stupidest, most dangerous thing possible and be prepared for it.
  • The other day, a teen girl in a family group - first 100, then 75, then 50 then 30 yards in front of me stayed in my lane. Iíd already slowed and I decided to get out of her way and stop because she obviously was clueless, finally, her dad shouted at her and she moved over Ė she was the one at fault but I had time to respond first and did.
  • In that video of the runner making a U-turn, yeah it was a bonehead move on his part. It was also dumb for the cyclist to assume the runner would stay his course and that he chose to pass at high speed without any acknowledgment that the runner knew he was coming up behind him Ė they were both at fault and that accident was entirely avoidable.


As a runner myself, I experience correlations between paved multi-use paths and multi-use nature parks where mountain bikers bomb down them with little apparent concern for other users. In fact, Iíve ridden those paths with mountain bikers who cop the attitude that people can just be more aware and move out of their way Ė how dare they interrupt their descent! Iím not kidding, that attitude is there among SOME riders. Someone I know has caused a horse to rear more than once, a horseman punched him after he caused his wifeís horse rear and throw her yet he continues to maintain that he has a right to use that path exactly as he wishes. Riders like him help create and increase the resentment and hatred some people feel toward cyclists and I feel more anger toward these cyclists than I do clueless pedestrians who arenít paying attention. How can I say that? Because with these riders, they know exactly what they could do to make it safer but choose not to because they donít want to harsh their killer downhill Ė https://catsip.berkeley.edu/resource...ike-collisions


Iíll admit, as a trail runner myself, it annoys me because the riders know there are horses and pedestrians on those paths and Iíve been surprised and almost hit many times when they suddenly appear around a bend at high speed without a sound. Last time that happened I had to fight a smirk when I jumped out of the way only to witness the riderís embarrassment as he got up after overshooting the next bend. But Iím a rider too and I can see the damage it does to the perceptions people have of us. Weíve had heated public meetings in my community with horsemen, hikers, and mountain bikers hurling insults at each other. But again, Iíve learned to control what I can: If I want to listen to music, I run using the speaker on my phone rather than earbuds so I can hear what is going on around me. Whatever I think about mountain bikers when Iím running, I listen and have a plan of escape before I charge around a blind curve because I know that SOME mountain bikers arenít paying a lot of attention to what is happening around them and a few in my circle have said they donít care, theyíre going to do what they do because people need to pay more attention. As a runner, Iím not going to stand my ground and stubbornly assert my right to run around the middle of the path wearing my earbuds because I think the mountain bikers are wrong. No, Iím going to get over it, accept the dynamic as it is for today so I can do what I can do to keep myself safe.



Being stubbornly indignant and Ďmore-rightí than the MTB riders and Ďstanding my groundí just puts me and them in more danger. Likewise, when Iím on a mountain bike, I know what itís like to be a runner who must jump out of the way into poison oak, I keep in mind that a woman was seriously injured in my region being struck by a bike and I take measures to be considerate and try and change peopleís attitudes about us. Iím one of those dorky road bikers who comes to a full stop at intersections, places his foot on the ground and makes eye-contact with the drivers, or pulls over to let cars pass him on a curvy mountain road with no bike lane. Iíve ridden with plenty of guys who Think Iím lame for doing that, they have the attitude ĎIíve got a right to be here Ė ĎFí them, they can wait.í Yeah, well I get that sentiment to a point but Iíve been edged off the road a few times and hit by a car once over asserting my right to keep my line and it was a long recovery; I donít ever want to experience that again Just because I have to be right whatever the cost.

Last edited by Stronglight56; 05-11-20 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 05-13-20, 10:10 AM
  #113  
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Paraphrasing another old saying:" Nobody uses MUPs anymore. They are too crowded."
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Old 05-21-20, 02:47 PM
  #114  
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And it's STILL ****-cretinous parking across the MUP! Fired off emails to the cities of Tucker and Stone Mountain today. I will call UCIS (think that's it, written down somewhere) tomorrow. All within a mere 7.5 miles....

Georgia law forbids I ride on interstate highways where posted, no problem... so why do I find forbidden motorists on the frellin' MUP! (rhetorical question)
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Old 05-21-20, 04:05 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by Digger Goreman View Post
And it's STILL ****-cretinous parking across the MUP! Fired off emails to the cities of Tucker and Stone Mountain today. I will call UCIS (think that's it, written down somewhere) tomorrow. All within a mere 7.5 miles....

Georgia law forbids I ride on interstate highways where posted, no problem... so why do I find forbidden motorists on the frellin' MUP! (rhetorical question)
If you 'accidentally' brush them with your pedals then oh well, should not have blocked the path
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