Canyon as a company sucks. Beware.
#26
Senior Member
Thread Starter
The problem is that it's the country's tax laws that matter, not the company's word. They apparently inaccurately described the possibility of a VAT refund, and it would be good of them to give a goodwill credit of the amount. But they're not the decided on when VAT refunds are available.
IIRC, Germany is particularly strict, and the export must be directly from Germany to outside the EU. We had an issue getting a refund because our flight connected in another EU country. So, my guess is that by shipping the bike to France (from Germany I'm assuming) eligibility for a refund was lost.
IIRC, Germany is particularly strict, and the export must be directly from Germany to outside the EU. We had an issue getting a refund because our flight connected in another EU country. So, my guess is that by shipping the bike to France (from Germany I'm assuming) eligibility for a refund was lost.
And yes, if they made a mistake, I would expect them to make it good. Even partially is OK.
#27
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Having said that, this is not a B&S. I cant imagine any reputable company would do that. This is just wrong info provided by the guys who answered my mails. The thing is I have mails from at least 2-3 of them guaranteeing that this would be qualifying for a VAT refund.
Last edited by StanSeven; 07-16-19 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Edited to remove insulting wording
#28
Senior Member
Thread Starter
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1186 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times
in
177 Posts
Your experience, while unfortunate for you, applies to approx .00001% of the population who live in countries that Canyon doesn't ship to and want bikes shipped to intermediate European countries.
Not sure that's worthy of a Beware of Canyon notice.
Not sure that's worthy of a Beware of Canyon notice.
Likes For gregf83:
#31
Full Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 466
Bikes: Trek Domane 4.3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times
in
35 Posts
https://www.germany.info/us-en/servi...-refund/906296 (I realize this for US, but I don't see why departure for India or any other country outside the EU would be different).
Anyway, you can see on that page the possibility of going to a German consulate to apply for a refund.
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
There are a lot of instances where this might be a perfectly suitable reply, but I don't think that this is one of them. You clearly have the means to live elsewhere but you choose not to - insinuating that you live in a relative backwater doesn't mean that this isn't a 1%er "problem."
#33
Don't Bug Me
Actually I wanted to say something a lot worse but I make it a practice never to call anyone a demeaning name or attack them on a personal level just because their opinions might be different than mine.
Have a great day.
Have a great day.
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
1 Post
Besides some uninformed and untrained Canyon representatives....the issue is the VAT to begin with...EU thing I guess. We have taxes in the US as well...but a 20%..wow.
#35
FLIR Kitten to 0.05C
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,331
Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2349 Post(s)
Liked 406 Times
in
254 Posts
VAT ends up being substantially simpler and predictable than the disaster area that is import/export in the USA.
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Allen, TX
Posts: 2,636
Bikes: 2021 S-Works Turbo Creo SL, 2020 Specialized Roubaix Expert
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked 4,041 Times
in
1,430 Posts
-Matt
Likes For MattTheHat:
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Chapel Hill NC
Posts: 1,683
Bikes: 2000 Litespeed Vortex Chorus 10, 1995 DeBernardi Cromor S/S
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 645 Post(s)
Liked 797 Times
in
446 Posts
When I buy stuff in Europe (I live in the US), it can go a couple of ways. If I order online for shipping directly to the US, the seller may offer with/without VAT pricing (usually does, in my experience), so I get the VAT-less price. If I'm buying in person (this is usually in Ireland), I pay full price to the seller, but I can present the receipts and my boarding pass to a Customs & Excise booth at the airport, and I get the VAT back in cash from the government. Not saying it doesn't happen, but the seller shouldn't be in the business of verifying that their product has left the EU, unless they're shipping directly to a non-EU address. Since you're shipping to a destination within the EU, they're likely obligated to charge VAT, since the item is no longer under their control, and they can't guarantee that is has actually left the EU. The way VAT works is that their suppliers collect VAT from Canyon, Canyon collects it from the next buyer down the chain etc, and then each link in the chain sends a check to the government. Canyon have already paid VAT, so they're not going to not collect it from you if they can't guarantee that the item has left the EU. If they issue a refund on your say so or on the basis of the docs you provide (and remember that they're not in the business of verifying export docs), but the government ultimately decides that the docs are insufficient, then Canyon will be liable for the VAT that they refunded to you, and I can't see them leaving themselves open to that liability.
There might also be a timing issue. As I understand in, you had the bike shipped to France so you could use it before shipping it to India - correct? The VAT refund system is supposed to allow you to export things that are for use outside the EU. At what point does a bike leaving the EU with a stopover in France become a "French" bike and no longer eligible for VAT relief?
It sucks that Canyon gave you incorrect info, but they're bike builders, and the customer service rep likely wasn't an import/export expert.
There might also be a timing issue. As I understand in, you had the bike shipped to France so you could use it before shipping it to India - correct? The VAT refund system is supposed to allow you to export things that are for use outside the EU. At what point does a bike leaving the EU with a stopover in France become a "French" bike and no longer eligible for VAT relief?
It sucks that Canyon gave you incorrect info, but they're bike builders, and the customer service rep likely wasn't an import/export expert.
Last edited by Litespud; 07-16-19 at 10:47 AM.
Likes For Litespud:
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 8,550
Bikes: Wilier Izoard XP (Record);Cinelli Xperience (Force);Specialized Allez (Rival);Bianchi Via Nirone 7 (Centaur); Colnago AC-R Disc;Colnago V1r Limited Edition;De Rosa King 3 Limited(Force 22);DeRosa Merak(Red):Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Hydro(Di2)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 551 Post(s)
Liked 277 Times
in
145 Posts
There are a lot of instances where this might be a perfectly suitable reply, but I don't think that this is one of them. You clearly have the means to live elsewhere but you choose not to - insinuating that you live in a relative backwater doesn't mean that this isn't a 1%er "problem."
#39
Senior Member
Thread Starter
And accusing me of gaming the system was not a personal attack?
Last edited by StanSeven; 07-16-19 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Removed insult
#40
Senior Member
Thread Starter
There are a lot of instances where this might be a perfectly suitable reply, but I don't think that this is one of them. You clearly have the means to live elsewhere but you choose not to - insinuating that you live in a relative backwater doesn't mean that this isn't a 1%er "problem."
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,190
Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 527 Times
in
349 Posts
Implying that the OP is somehow less worthy because of his finances and where he chooses to live is very liberal I must say. The bottom line is 3 separate company representatives misrepresented information which drove his purchase decision. His quality of life should not have anything to do with this.
Likes For jadocs:
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,261
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18428 Post(s)
Liked 15,582 Times
in
7,337 Posts
Likes For indyfabz:
#43
well hello there
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Point Loma, CA
Posts: 15,430
Bikes: Bill Holland (Road-Ti), Fuji Roubaix Pro (back-up), Bike Friday (folder), Co-Motion (tandem) & Trek 750 (hybrid)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 503 Post(s)
Liked 336 Times
in
206 Posts
a credit card dispute sounds like it may be your only viable remedy. Plus it sounds like you will prevail.
__________________
.
.
Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
.
.
Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,261
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18428 Post(s)
Liked 15,582 Times
in
7,337 Posts
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 781
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 479 Post(s)
Liked 277 Times
in
156 Posts
I bought a bike from Canyon. I had it shipped to my house... in a country to which they regularly ship. I like Canyon - the bike and the company.
I guess the score's tied now? ;-)
I guess the score's tied now? ;-)
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
#47
Senior Member
Moving to other countries might be easy for Americans (or not, I don't know) but for us "backwater" folks it is pretty darn complicated.
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18382 Post(s)
Liked 4,515 Times
in
3,355 Posts
Actually, I did that in Italy when I bought my Colnago Super, used, rode it around some, then brought it back home, and have had it ever since. There was no mention of VAT at the time.
It depends. It is very common between Oregon (no Sales Tax) and Washington (Sales Taxes). I'm not quite sure what the rules are, but if it is something to be consumed in Washington, I generally ignore it. But, for some things I will ask. They simply verify driver's license, then remove the sales tax.
I assume the would do similar for international customers.
Not every place does remove the taxes. But, it never hurts to ask.
Likes For CliffordK:
#50
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 20,652
Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR-5 Viscount Aerospace Pro Colnago Classic Rabobank Schwinn Waterford PMount Raleigh C50 Cromoly Hybrid Legnano Tipo Roma Pista
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3093 Post(s)
Liked 6,608 Times
in
3,787 Posts
Thread moved from Road Cycling to Manufacturer Feedback forum.