roo777

Greetings,

A question to SRAM Red eTap users: Are you having issues with the front derailleur? Mine has been in the bike shop 3 times in the last 2 months for service. The 1st trip was an adjustment, the second trip was a limit screw replacement. The third was an entire front derailleur replacement.

Replacing the front derailleur did not fix the issue, amazingly. Here's the problem: Anywhere from 5-30 miles on the 1st ride out of the shop, when I shift from the small ring into the big ring, the derailleur cage moves too far outboard, and it throws the chain off the big ring and onto the crank. The problem continues to happen, essentially rendering my big chainring useless.

I'm at a loss, because the entire front derailleur has been replaced, the crank and chainring are SRAM Red factory, so it's not a compatibility issue. I'm out of ideas, I'm thinking some sort of firmware problem or something along those lines. If any other eTap riders have a similar issue, I'd love to hear how you resolved it.

Thanks so much!!

GlennR

In February I upgraded the Red 22 mechanical with a eTap mini group. On the 2 mile "test" ride it dropped the chain twice. I adjusted the limit screws and it's been fine ever since. I have 2200 miles and not a problem. I change chain and cassette at the same time and never a problem.

The crank, chainrings and cassette are from the original mechanical grouper. The bike is a 2015 Emonda SLR.

I suggest you find a different mechanic.

noodle soup

everytime you replace the chain, you also replace the cassette? That doesn't sound right.

I agree that he should find a different mechanic/shop to look at the problem.

GlennR

It should read " I shift the FD and RD at the same time and never dropped a chain." I'll be in the small chainring and a small cog and press both shifters and let go of the right which move the chain to the large chainring and the RD to a large cog. The chain is going in opposite directions and if it doesn't drop the chain.

First think i'd check is the alignment of the FD. Did the LBS put the "correct" shim on the mounting bolt. Did they align the aligning marks to the chain? Is the height correct off the large chainring teeth? Are the high/low limit screws correctly set?

The FD instructions start at 3:07 and end at 4:00. Adjustment starts at 6:33 and ends at 8:50.

It's worth watching so you can double check the mechanic.

roo777

Thanks for this.

The first adjustment was actually completed by a SRAM representative who was visiting the LBS. When the problem continued to happen after the adjustment, SRAM Warranty dept claimed it was incorrect limit screws, and sent new limit screws to the LBS to install. This didn't fix the issue (exact same problem is occurring throughout this entire series of events, FYI). So, SRAM sent a brand new derailleur to the LBS, which they installed. Same issue. After 10-20 good shifts, the derailleur starts throwing the chain onto the crank. It's mind boggling. I don't think it's an issue with the mechanic. I could be wrong, though. Maybe some sort of problem with the braze on mount? After the last repair (before the entire replacement) the mechanic said it looked like the high limit screw was moved outboard. But still, the new derailleur continues to have the same issue. I have sent another email to SRAM to see what they have to say. I work a few miles from their Chicago HQ, so I'm hoping maybe they let me bring it into their shop!

GlennR

Ask the LBS to have the Sram rep stop by and look at the bike. I got the first minigroup that every shop got over the winter. The Sram rep contacted me a few times asking if I had any problems or questions.

ingo

If the limit screw is a mechanical stop not a electronic adjustment, there's no way that the chain should go outside of the large chainring. I would think that the travel adjustment is electronically controlled by the screw then the travel is not limited and could go over.

noodle soup

Okay, now I feel a little stupid for misunderstanding your post.

gsa103

What frame? New build or upgrade?

@RNAV had a similar issue, and it was a frame issue. If it's a new build you may want to expand troubleshooting beyond the FF.

GlennR

It's a mechanical stop. No different than the mechanical Red 22 FD.

Nope, my fault for not being clear.

roo777

It's a 2014 Specialized Venge Cavendish Frame w/braze on mount. It was a new build. I bought the frame and full eTap kit separately. My LBS installed the groupset.

After all this, I wonder if it is an issue with the braze-on mount, or something similar.

RNAV

Though @gsa103 mentioned me earlier, my issue was different (chain dropping to the inside whilst shifting from small-to-large chainring).

Reading over your issue, I have two suggestions:

1) Put locktite on your FD limit screws. You mentioned you had several good shifts, and then the shifts started going poorly. Limit screws backing out would be a plausible explanation for your problem. Keep in mind, with mechanical shifting we feel when the limit is hit and instinctively reduce pressure. With these electrical systems, they shift with just as much force into the limit repeatedly -- without reducing pressure -- and the only thing keeping them from traveling further are the limit stops.

2) If 1 doesn't solve your problem, I'd start looking at the solidity of your FD braze-on mount. If it is loose at all, or flexes at all while shifting, that could cause your problem.

My bet is on the limit screw. Make sure you give the locktite enough time to set once you've applied it prior to trying to shift . . . so perhaps apply the locktite, immediately set the limits, and then leave it overnight without shifting it at all.

Brian25

I think roo777 may be on to something. I owned bicycle stores for over 12 years and Trek dealer for seven. I used to ride an OCLV with a "braze on" ft derailleur, (well, actually pop riveted on) It drove me crazy, because the braze on had two rivets vertically, making it stiff vertically but, with much front derailleur shifting the derailleur ended up "tailed" inward, rendering it unable to shift into the big ring, unless you reached down and pushed the tail of the derailleur back out. I do not know what bike you have, and if the braze on is firmly anchored in place???

GlennR

That's why Sram included a variety of shims to increase the rotational rigidity.

roo777

I went for another ride today, and the FD continued to slip off the ring onto the crank. I decided to adjust the high limit screw on the fly whenever it happened. After a few adjustments, it seems to be behaving a little better, we'll see how it holds up over the next couple hundred miles. I'm not sure about applying locktite. I don't know if it would void my warranty, but it would certainly be a problem if I want to sell it at a later date. I still feel like the FD is moving during the ride. I do have the correct wedge in there. But like I said, we'll see..

Thanks so much for everyone's help! I'm a first timer here, and I definitely like the community here already.

rpenmanparker 

Blue Loctite (red tube) will do no harm. Neither to your use of the derailmeur or to anyone owning the bike after you.

GlennR

Agreed.

Or you could get a "marking" pen that's used by engine builders to show if a bolt/nut rotated.

RNAV

By design, the limit screws aren't supposed to move. There are different grades of locktite, with blue being the least powerful (and what I would recommend for this application). All the locktite is doing is ensuring that your limit screws function as designed, so no warranty voidage. Worst-case scenario, simply replace the limit screws and no one will know the difference.

I do like @oldnslow2's advice to mark the limit screws to see if they rotate. That would be a good way to diagnose the problem without using locktite. A simple black sharpie will work, just make sure you mark both the screw and the derailleur body. If they move, then you'll need to use locktite.

By the way, if I were you, I'd be pushing real hard for Sram to 1) permanently fix the problem, and 2) replace your crank arm under warranty if your crank arm has been scratched at all by the chain.

roo777

Sram has been very responsive. They called my LBS and said they will do "whatever it takes" to make things right. A Sram rep is going to visit the shop and personally check out my bike. When you drop close to 3 grand on a complete groupset, one would expect a good response from the manufacturer. And they have delivered.

There are some thoughts about the possibility of an incorrectly sized bottom bracket install, which was done by a different LBS that I do not frequent any longer. We'll see what happens!

77Eric

Hi. I installed on my bike etap myself a few months ago. The instructions were very clear and I was impressed at how well it worked from the first ride, especially the front derailleur. I agree with the previous comments (including considering a different mechanic) but on my ride yesterday I came up with a couple other ideas:

- Doublecheck the vertical FD adjustment. On my bike I couldn't get it low enough (compact 50/34). Didn't ride it until I carefully did some filing on the FD hanger to get it to spec but it seems to me that if the FD is too high it could cause your problem.

- Doublecheck your chain length. Your chain almost certainly needed to be shortened to meet spec. Maybe that was overlooked? Seems like that could contribute to your problem as well if chain tension is too low. Also check RD adjustments.

Good luck,

Eric

RobertL

What version of crank and chainring are you using? My Brother wanted to move to eTap and use his 10 speed crankset but changes have to be made. From below, this might explain why it's moving the chain too far out: ***Our 22 groups actually have the chainrings slightly farther apart than our 10-speed groups***

I found this answer from SRAM regarding 10 speed crankset on 11 speed set up and vise-versa:

Scroll down about halfway to ‘Answer from SRAM/Quarq’
From: Technical FAQ: Follow-up on 10- and 11-speed compatibility | VeloNews.com

From the link above - ‘Answer from SRAM/Quarq’

Ten-speed chainrings can be installed on an 11-speed crank, just as 11-speed chainrings can be installed on a 10-speed crank. The spiders are identical. However, all of our groups are designed to function as complete groups, ***so if a 10-speed crank is installed in an 11-speed group or vice versa, we strongly recommend changing to the appropriate chainrings***. Ten- and 11-speed should not be mixed. ***Our 22 groups actually have the chainrings slightly farther apart than our 10-speed groups***, in order to ensure that all cogs can be safely reached in the small ring, and the chain and front derailleur are specifically designed to work with that gap. Running a 10-speed chain on 11-speed rings or an 11-speed chain on 10-speed rings could cause chain jams or derailments.

—Dan Lee
Public relations specialist, road and cyclocross, SRAM/Zipp/Quarq

roo777

My entire eTap groupset, including the crank and aerolink brakes were purchased together. The crank is Sram Red (eTap logo) 11 speed BB30.

77Eric

Nice bike! Thanks for the pic. I compared it to mine and the chain length in small-small looks similar but I still wonder if it could be a chain tension issue maybe related to RD spring? Just brainstorming...

Also, can you put the FD big ring limit screw in far enough so it rubs in top gear? If not maybe it's a BB issue?

Eric

PS - I ride and love that exact seat. If you want to get rid of it let me know. I believe they are discontinued :-(

fa63

I was going to suggest this as well. I know one rider who struggled to get the vertical adjustment right on his Cervelo Rca when using a compact crank. Instead of filing off the FD, he ended up running a mid-compact crank.

GlennR

Interesting... My Emonda was originally built with a Red 22 and a compact crank. We never had to do anything to the FD bracket to get it to work.