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Upgrading Ultegra di2 6770 to 11 speed questions.

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Upgrading Ultegra di2 6770 to 11 speed questions.

Old 08-13-19, 07:24 AM
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LowCel 
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Upgrading Ultegra di2 6770 to 11 speed questions.

I'm planning to upgrade my 6770 to 11 speed and I have a couple of questions. I've read that when upgrading that both derailleurs need to be upgraded unless the firmware is old. Since I have never upgraded my firmware (built the bike in 2013) does that mean that I can just upgrade the rear derailleur or am I just dreaming?

If I do have to upgrade both derailleurs can I mix a 6870 front with a 9070 rear?

Oh, the reason I'm upgrading to 11 speed is because I am old and fat and I want to go to a larger rear gear than the 28 that I have now. I know, I should htfu but whatever.
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Old 08-13-19, 07:39 AM
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Why not use a compact crankset, or a Wolftooth RoadLink?

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/roadlink
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Old 08-13-19, 07:40 AM
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The latest E-Tube compatiblity chart is May 2019

https://e-tubeproject.shimano.com/guide/#guide_list

According to the chart, a 6870 front derailleur with 9070 rear derailleur is supported.


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Old 08-13-19, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Why not use a compact crankset, or a Wolftooth RoadLink?

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/roadlink
I am using a compact crankset. I'll check out the wolftooth.
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Old 08-13-19, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
The latest E-Tube compatiblity chart is May 2019

https://e-tubeproject.shimano.com/guide/#guide_list

According to the chart, a 6870 front derailleur with 9070 rear derailleur is supported.


-Tim-
Thank you. Any idea on the firmware thing and just switching the rear derailleur?
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Old 08-13-19, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by LowCel View Post
Thank you. Any idea on the firmware thing and just switching the rear derailleur?
When you switch the derailleur, you'll want to plug in the e-tube and update the component firmware anyway. When you're in there, you can check the programmed functions and make sure all the pieces are doing what you want them to do. Very simple and easy.
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Old 08-13-19, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
When you switch the derailleur, you'll want to plug in the e-tube and update the component firmware anyway. When you're in there, you can check the programmed functions and make sure all the pieces are doing what you want them to do. Very simple and easy.
So it is required to upgrade the firmware? All I want it to do is shift up and down. I don't require much.

If so that gets rid of any hope of just replacing the rear derailleur. Apparently you could do that until Shimano figured it out, they then changed the firmware so you would have to upgrade both derailleurs.
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Old 08-13-19, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by LowCel View Post
Thank you. Any idea on the firmware thing and just switching the rear derailleur?
I don't have any ideas of my own. I started using Di2 with 6870 and don't know about earlier versions. Sorry.

The only thing for sure is that the E-Tube chart says that 10 speed 6770 front derailleur is not supported with 11 speed 6870 or 9070 rear derailleurs. I do not know if that means it will not work or just that Shimano does not support it for performance reasons.

Keep asking. Someone somewhere knows.


-Tim-
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Old 08-13-19, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I don't have any ideas of my own. I started using Di2 with 6870 and don't know about earlier versions. Sorry.

The only thing for sure is that the E-Tube chart says that 10 speed 6770 front derailleur is not supported with 11 speed 6870 or 9070 rear derailleurs. I do not know if that means it will not work or just that Shimano does not support it for performance reasons.

Keep asking. Someone somewhere knows.


-Tim-
Thanks. Apparently in 2014 when the 6870 first came out people were just replacing the rear derailleur and it worked fine. Well, then I guess some big company decided they weren't making enough money. Their next firmware upgrade would make it so that nothing would work unless you purchased a matching 6870 front derailleur to go with it. Sucks, but that's why I'm wondering if upgrading the firmware is actually necessary. If so, so be it. But if not I'm all for saving a couple hundred bucks.
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Old 08-13-19, 09:30 AM
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Check out the first paragraph on this link.

https://fitwerx.com/converting-shima...2-to-11-speed/

"Note: As of 8/3/14 firmware updates from Shimano remove the functionality between 6770 and 6870/9070 electronic components being used together. Some previous firmware versions allowed the below conversion to function without replacing the front derailleur, but firmware being installed as of 8/3/14 will irreversibly render such a mixed system dysfunctional. As of 8/3/14, a 6870 front and rear derailleur are both required to allow 6770 shift levers to work with an 11 speed cassette."
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Old 08-18-19, 02:08 PM
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Yes, this ^^ is correct. You can not mix 10-speed and 11-speed components. Besides that, almost anything will work. If you're not sure just check the compatibility charts linked above .
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Old 08-21-19, 05:27 AM
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So, after some more research it looks like I will need to replace both derailleurs, the junction box, and the battery mount. I will also need to get a bluetooth connection thing and they recommend that I take it to a shop to have the firmware updated. Oh, I might have to replace the battery as well.

Thanks for keeping things simple Shimano...
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Old 08-21-19, 05:34 AM
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You don't *need* the EW-WU111 Wireless Unit to build a Di2 bike, but it lets you:
  • Update firmware through the mobile app (likely to crash, but easy to recover from crashes)
  • Change settings (mobile app) / adjust synchro-shift options / more
  • Display current gear and battery status on your Wahoo/Garmin/<insert other brand here, check the head unit's docs>
  • Use the Di2 shifters to change pages on your Wahoo/Garmin/other
  • View shifting statistics (spent x time in gear xyz)
I have one.. and I like having one. I would be perfectly happy without it though
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Old 08-21-19, 08:00 AM
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You can do the firmware updates
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Old 08-21-19, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LowCel View Post
So, after some more research it looks like I will need to replace both derailleurs, the junction box, and the battery mount. I will also need to get a bluetooth connection thing and they recommend that I take it to a shop to have the firmware updated. Oh, I might have to replace the battery as well.

Thanks for keeping things simple Shimano...
Just curious where you're getting that from? My impression, and the compatibility chart TimothyH linked to agrees, is that bare minimum you just need the derailleurs. Assuming you have a SM-EW67A-E for your Junction A, probably worthwhile to go to a SM-EW90-A which will get you a USB port and let you do firmware updates on your own. The external battery (and mount) should be compatible with whatever you choose.
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Old 08-22-19, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by bahula03 View Post
Just curious where you're getting that from? My impression, and the compatibility chart TimothyH linked to agrees, is that bare minimum you just need the derailleurs. Assuming you have a SM-EW67A-E for your Junction A, probably worthwhile to go to a SM-EW90-A which will get you a USB port and let you do firmware updates on your own. The external battery (and mount) should be compatible with whatever you choose.
I called and talked to someone at Shimano.
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Old 08-22-19, 06:28 AM
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Am I the only one who sees the irony in a guy named @LowCel having trouble with electronic shifting?

Low, I hope you get it sorted out.
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Old 08-22-19, 05:21 PM
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Before taking the plunge, consider what you want to achieve moving to 11s ?
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Old 08-23-19, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
Before taking the plunge, consider what you want to achieve moving to 11s ?
I actually put my reason in the original post.
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Old 08-23-19, 02:21 PM
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I'm currently on a 10 speed Di2 6770, as well. I've been thinking about the upgrade. There would be two big "advantages" for me:

1) The newer Di2 have synchro-shift, are much more customizable, and actually feed info to the latest bike computers; and

2) 10 to 11 speed.

I've decided that, for me (and I stress, for me), 10 to 11 speed probably isn't enough of a reason to justify it. Between what I can do with the cassette and chainrings, I could probably find gearing that works. And that route would be way less expensive than junction box, derailleurs, battery, cabling, etc. (and yes, to get the other advantages, you do need the new battery - it's apparently a memory / storage thing).

Now I'm left with whether the newer features are worthwhile. And I'm still stuck on this one. Is customization that important to me? Is synchro-shift? The second sounds convenient. The first sounds cool. But it's a lot to pay for convenient and cool. Further complicating things for me is that I probably need new chainrings, cassette, and chain. And I'm also considering a power meter. All of those things would be different if I upgraded to the newest Di2.

The only thing I'll say is that I've learned bike upgrades are always a personal decision. Some people have enough disposable income to not really care about an extra $2k. Some people can barely stomach justifying replacing worn cleats. It will always be impossible for anyone to make that judgment for anyone else.

I'm currently leaning towards not upgrading. My bike works just fine. To the extent the gearing could be "easier" on hills, I could also just focus on getting in better shape. Also, as much as convenient and cool sound awesome, it's $2k.

Will

P.S.: But damn...convenient and cool sound awesome...

Last edited by helouwn; 08-23-19 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 08-23-19, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by helouwn View Post

I'm currently leaning towards not upgrading. My bike works just fine. To the extent the gearing could be "easier" on hills, I could also just focus on getting in better shape. Also, as much as convenient and cool sound awesome, it's $2k.

Will

P.S.: But damn...convenient and cool sound awesome...
In your case I think I would agree. I am on an Ultegra 6870 setup with Synchro-shift. I tried both full-synchro (shift front automatically) and semi-synchro (shift cassette up/down when you shift the front derailleur). The way Shimano set up full synchro-shift means that (for most bikes) it'll automatically shift the FD when you reach the 2nd largest cog. (yes you can change the shifting point, but I haven't been able to select the 3rd largest cog and neither have many others).

Personally I prefer to shift the FD a bit sooner than that, so I am only using the semi-synchro mode at the moment.

For a while I considered upgrading my shifters to R8050 so that I could use the new buttons on top of the hoods.. but decided it was a waste of money and I'd rather wait until I have a disc brake frameset (and get R8070 shifters instead).
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