Grinstead

It will be interesting to hear others views on my predicaments and maybe some who have experienced it.
Last year i had what i would say was a quite normal fluctuating heart rate as in it would increase under more strain such as climbing hills or just putting more watts down through the pedals. This year it has become quite bizarre as no matter what power or what gradient of hill it caps out at the same reading.
However on the flat i am faster this year but up hill i am well down on last and i can only put this down to the failure to increase my HR. Here is the thing though my FTP is higher than last year and my weight the same.

It's frustrating to fly along on the flat faster than last year only to know that the legs just wont get the watts down to create a good climb. I have had a medical check and all is fine .
I have been training quite a bit lately so is this over training and the legs just are not up for the job to climb and so not demanding an increase in HR or is it the legs are OK but the HR will not move them quicker.
Quite a strange dilemma i have found myself in that i have never come across before.
To sum up if i had a 15 mile course with 3 or four quite steep short hills and then flats my HR would stay the same or within a few beats from start to finish with the flats being fast but the hills dismal
Thoughts?

firebird854

You're reading too much into it. If you've increased your cadence up the hill from last year you will likely have an increased heartrate, if you have a malfunctioning heart rate monitor, you could just replace it (if you are getting consistent 240 hr readings that's a typical sign that it's no longer functioning properly). If it's predominantly warmer this year rather than last year it could cause a higher heart rate...

What I'm trying to say is, HR is a decent metric, but there are tons of variables that can affect it. Best thing would be getting a power meter and forgetting about HR (however, HR + Power is awesome).

eja_ bottecchia

Consult a professional...such as a cardiologist.

Good luck to you.

MoAlpha

I'd consult a leg-iologist, but what do I know?

sdmc530

this don't hesitate to get your heart checked, you never really know. Get medical diagnosis from a doctor. It could be critical and important.

wphamilton

Your HR might not be what's limiting you on hills. There was a time when I felt pretty good about my endurance but I could not reach a maximum heart rate on hills. I'd run out of wind or legs first before that final push and it would top out about the same as a hard sustained pace on the flat.

That eventually solved itself but it was due to conditioning other than the heart. It could be that or something else entirely in your case. There are a lot of variables, and the submaximal heart rate generally reflects our level of effort rather than modulating it.

WhyFi

Put up some HR and power graphs for this typical ride.

Iride01 

Your HR will top out. You'll only be able to do a near max HR effort for a very short period. If you are seeing your HR consistently at the same level for various grades and such, then perhaps you have unwittingly trained yourself to maintain a particular level of exertion for these efforts that wind up giving you the same HR rate.

Have you tried increasing or decreasing your effort to see if your HR responds accordingly? While it's nice to know how hard and long you can maintain a certain effort by your HR rate, it can get you into a performance plateau if you make it a habit to rely on HR alone to base what you do.

base2 

The more fit you are, the harder it is to hold a higher heart rate for longer.

Congratulations! You have a heart that is stronger than your legs & plenty of blood to carry O2 where it needs to go.

Next step: Work on leg strength to get stronger & create cardiovascular demand.

Flying on the flats is all aerodynamics & rolling resistance. The hills are exposing your leg strength as your new limiting factor.

Seattle Forrest

Are you eating enough carbohydrates? What HR do you top out at?

zigmeister

So, every time I got to a doctor, they always say "has anybody ever told you that you have an abnormal heartbeat?"

I also went to a cardiologist, once they did a cardiac cathertization, where they run a scope up your thigh artery and then take images with die of my heart. Come back clean as a whistle the doctor says...that was around 48yrs old. I'm 52 now.

So, back to the abnormal heartbeat, my heart rate will run 175-182bpm an entire high intensity ride...like race pace Cat1 stuff....

The "experts" just say, "well, since we don't know what your heartbeat was like when you were younger, and you've been an athlete your entire life, and ride with your heart rate up over 180 even 190bpm.....guess we really don't know what to make of it?!?!?!"

Wow, that was helpful...obviously there are things cardiologist can identity immediately...but this is a classic, we don't know...enjoy your life response from them. Last time I went to a cardiolist, and when a doctor tells me that I just say, yeah, I've heard that before, what does that mean? Just to mess with them, and they shrug because they have nothing to say as to what that actually means. It just means it isn't like a normal heartbeat...ghee thanks!!!!

surak

Is that you Simon Yates?

burnthesheep

LT1 aerobic or LT2 anaerobic lactic tolerance isn't the same depending on how trained you are or even across different people.

On these hills, is the pain telling you to stop or is it the physiology? The physiology stopping you would be due to your aerobic or anaerobic system not meeting the effort's needs despite your mind's ability to drive you forward.

You'll know when it's the second one. It's when you bonk a short or long climb early, and need to sit for a bit or take a little "dirt nap".

The HR will ramp quickly at first, then will have a pretty steady linear slope at a lower ramp rate from there until failure.

Does the HR for the effort look like either of these? Zoom in on the ride/workout and take a look. It should look similar to one of these. Even during a ride around town, you should be able to spot these shapes.

2min anaerobic:
https://www.strava.com/activities/2349144564/analysis

8min aerobic:
https://www.strava.com/activities/2369973736

Zaskar

This is why you should consult a doc... and not the interwebs for medical stuff. (sorry base2, but ^that^ is not accurate)

base2 

What is inaccurate about it?

Zaskar

I stopped here "The more fit you are, the harder it is to hold a higher heart rate for longer."

That is exactly opposite of accurate. The more fit an endurance athlete, the longer they're able (and comfortable) holding an elevated heart rate.

69chevy

Hold my beer

base2 

Disagree.

First: Find any cyclist on their first week of cycling and make 'em do 12 mph for any length of time. Their heart rate will be 180 bpm & they'll fail to go any real distance or for any length of time. It will remain sustained higher long after the effort.

Then take a seasoned cyclist. Make him do 18 mph for a half a day...His heart rate will be 140 and will getting it higher will require hills, sprints, etc...and it will recover quite quickly after the effort.

Are you telling me the untrained non-athlete has a healthier heart because it can get to higher beats per minute with less work?

That's not how fitness works.

rubiksoval

No. Now that seasoned cyclist can go 24
mph (or insert whatever speed) at 180 bpm. That's how fitness works. You can still do the same efforts and it doesn't get easier, you just go faster.

base2 

And he'll do 24 mph for that same mile or 3 that the unseasoned non-athlete is capable of before blowing up.

Deliberately left out of this discussion is equipment. The seasoned athlete likely has a fancy bike which skews speed distance for effort.

I think we are talking past eachother.

Here, try this on for size: A 96% effort on my 1974 Schwinn Varsity. Is the heart rate pinned? No. It tracks with elevation nicely and power meter quite nicely. What's the average Heart rate? Hmmm, it's not 196 BPM.

How much Heart rate Zone 5 is there for all that time spent in Power Zone 5,6,7?

I assure you my FTP is accurately set & I own many, many power meters. A normalized power of 270 watts for an hour and a half...An average HR under 160 for an average power of 240 watts.


Screenshot_20190520-112934_Connect by Richard Mozzarella, on Flickr

I assure you on my race bike, cruising around on flat level ground my HR is less than many peoples while they are walking. What I said above is true.

The fitter you are, the harder it is to have a higher heart rate longer. Your body has adapted.

eja_ bottecchia

Heart issues, even for young people, could turn into something more serious.

Better to catch it early.

Zaskar

Are you confusing "fitter" with "older"? Because, aside from age and/or some other ailment, one's ability to maintain a high heart rate does NOT decrease as their fitness increases.

Or, are you confusing "need" with "ability"? I.e., as a cyclist gets fitter, he doesn't "need" to maintain the same HR to match the previous avg speed over the same route. He is still "able" to maintain that HR... but (here it comes)... if he does maintain that higher HR, he's just going to go faster ;-)

69chevy

You assuring anyone, anything based on what you know, about you, makes little sense at all.

Some peoples bodies, believe it or not, do not behave exactly the same as yours, or anyone else's for that matter.

My max heart rate is 205. I just posted a ride where I averaged 180 (almost 90% max for over an hour). How was I technically anaerobic for over an hour without my legs filling with lactic acid rendering them useless if I am not fit?

The simple answer is... there is no simple answer. There are variables in oxygen uptake, oxygen delivery, metabolic efficiencies, and cardiovascular systems from person to person.

Cardiologists still argue about low resting heart rates. Some call it a fitness adaptation, some call it neurological damage.

rubiksoval

I think you're just not making a lot of sense. And you're just flat out wrong.

You said you can't go as hard as long when you're fitter. That's wrong. You most certainly can. You just go a lot faster.

I can go just as hard for 1 minute, 5 minutes, 60 minutes, 3 hours now as I could when I first started. The difference now is way, way more watts and speed.

Equipment has zero to do with any of that. What you do on your race bike has nothing to do with anything. I can put out the same effort on a cross bike, mountain bike, race bike, whatever. The effort can be the same. Speed will obviously change accordingly.

MoAlpha

Fitness includes increased muscle mass, neural control of muscle, muscle vascularity, and oxygen utilization at the cellular level. These adaptations all act to increase potential oxygen demand and drive heart rate.

Is it possible to improve cardiorespiratory function out of proportion to muscle fitness? I don't know, but, that might result in failure to drive heart rate.