unterhausen

This thread has gotten very weird. It's probably best practice to pop a bead, wipe out the grody mess of sealant and whatever nastiness it is that turns it brown, and refill directly into the tire. Then pop the bead back on. If you're in a shop and have a way of holding the wheel by the axle this takes less time than injecting it through the valve in my experience. I really want to get a Park WH-1, but it's kinda expensive. You can do it with a bike in a stand, but that usually leaves the tire too low for convenient access.

OTOH, many people just top up through the valve stem and that works fine. Next time I see a stan's person I'll ask. They have a location here in town so they sometimes drop by the shop to drink our beer.

Kapusta

This may be getting lost in the conversation, but Stans gives different directions for the Standard Sealant and the Race Sealant.

The standard sealant they say to use an injector through he stem.

Koyote

I still don't understand why that would be "best practice." Is it to prevent something bad from happening? And if so, what exactly? I'm genuinely curious.

If it does make sense to do this, it might only be for riders who go for long periods of time on the same tires. I almost never get over a year's use on a tubeless tire before replacing it, so perhaps I just haven't left sealant in one long enough to have a problem...?

5teve

You're picking nits about terminology, I'm quoting the manufacturers recommendations:

"...The quantity and size of crystals in this special formula means that Stan's Race Sealant can only be installed directly into the tire. As a result of its immense sealing capabilities, Race Sealant is not compatible with injector or other valve installation methods. Race sealant should be inspected every 2-3 weeks for best performance. Be sure to rinse race sealant out of used tires intended to be stored/reinstalled..."
https://www.notubes.com/stan-s-race-sealant-quart

Hiro11

One tip from my experience: for regular sealant, forget the injector. The small 2oz bottles with the narrow nozzle most brands sell sealant in are far easier to use. Just refill them and reuse. Injectors work ok if you get a length of hose of the exact diameter to fit directly on the valve stem, but why bother. Just get the bottles.

Kapusta

The injector already has the hose, and a fitting and screws right onto the stem.

gregf83 

Stans instructions for 'Valve Injection' include removing the core so I think Stans considers valve and stem (with core removed) interchangeable.
Is it possible the larger crystals they include in the Race sealant are not sucked up as well in the injector? Perhaps Race sealant injected through the valve limits some of the advantages you would otherwise get with the Race sealant and its ability to seal larger punctures.

Hiro11

Yes. Screwing it on is a two handed job, always a pain and completely unnecessary. It also leaks unless you screw it all the way down. Also, you don't need a plunger, it will gravity feed into the tire just fine. The whole thing is unnecessary. My recommendation: use the bottles and ditch the injector, it's so much easier.

Kapusta

Why were you going on about dicking around with trying to fit a hose over the stem if you knew there was a fitting?

Mine does not leak and I screw it on with one hand. How do you even get two hands on the fitting?

Its not any more work, and it is easier for me to measure out exactly how much I am putting in.

Hiro11

OK, let's go deep on tubeless sealant injectors. I am sick of dealing with work email anyway. I will attempt to fully explain why I hold such unorthodox and frankly dangerous opinions on tubeless sealant injectors.

Why were you going on about dicking around with trying to fit a hose over the stem if you knew there was a fitting?
My response: My point is the fitting sucks and is pointless. You have to thread the fitting on to the valve stem while the whole assembly is flopping around and the spokes are getting in the way. Many bike shops just ditch the fitting and use a tube where the inside diameter of the tube precisely matches the outside diameter of the valve stem. With such a tube, you forget about threading the damned thing on and just slip the tube over the valve stem and you're done. That's still not necessary which leads to my second point: small bottles with nozzles that fit exactly inside the valve stem exist. These bottles contain exactly 2 oz which is plenty for a road tire. If you need more, you refill the bottle or use another bottle. After you're done, you refill the smaller bottle(s) with a bulk bottle. I have several ready to go.

Mine does not leak
My response: My experience has been different. I agree they don't leak if you screw them all the way down onto the valve stem (more on this later). I have been through two injectors, one Stan's, the other some no name garbage. Both leaked unless you screwed them all the way down. Which is annoying. A minor annoyance, I will grant you.

I screw it on with one hand.
My response: I do too, the other hand has got to hold the injector which is flopping around. Also, if you're doing this on a wheel with 32 spokes, there's not a lot of room to work with and the injector keeps getting in the way. It's a faff, as the British say.

How do you even get two hands on the fitting?
My response: read the above.

Its not any more work, and it is easier for me to measure out exactly how much I am putting in.
My response: personally, I'm fine with us having different opinions on tubeless sealant injectors.

Kapusta

Yeah, me too.

Koyote

I'm glad I use Orange Seal.

GrainBrain

OMFG this thread.

Keep the Dremel away from the tires. Maybe buy some abrasive Scotch pads, they probably won't be too aggressive.

It seems for me I usually end up adding sealant after a couple months because it's all gone 🤷‍♂️

Then I pop the bead after 5 months because my tires of choice last about 3k-4k miles.

unterhausen

Is sealant going to join helments and chain lube as things we argue about in the winter?

b88

Yes that's what I find. I shake the bottle well then put one finger over the top while flipping it upside down. Then pour some sealant into the tire. Only then I get enough of the crystals out.

unterhausen

Okay, I didn't expect to have to explain that. First, "best practice" doesn't mean minimum standard. I have seen sealant where I have questions about its efficacy. And I don't quite understand how it gets so dirty. When I said "wiped out" I meant dried with a rag. No dremels, no abrasive pads, not even completely dry.

On my bikes I just keep putting new sealant in through the valve. But what I have seen on other people's bikes makes me wonder if that makes sense.

Koyote

I think I was correct in post #38. You probably do a clean install, and wear out (and replace) tires often enough that it's fine to just top up your sealant through the valve. But if someone goes years on the same tubeless tires, then yeah, it might be worth cleaning them out once in a while.

DeadGrandpa

I have only a little experience with the tubeless stuff. It was fine at first, but then the bikes hung on hooks for six or eighteen months, so I added a little sealant via the valve stem (minus the valve core) before I rode them again. But then a little sealant backed up into the stem and contaminated ("gummed up") the core. So I had a slow leak at the core, but once I replaced the core I had no problem.

Once I let the sealant dry out, so I used a scruffy pad to scrub the dried boogers loose. Didn't need a power tool.

Koyote

That happens, so I buy valve cores by the dozen - I think a pack is about $8. Then I just replace 'em every now and then.

scottfsmith

Here is exactly what is written on the Stans instructions:

Tire ≠ valve stem.

I use the Specialized race stuff which is similar and they have the same thing on their instructions. My guess is the particles can get lodged in the valve itself if you are coating the sides of the valve stem. Maybe low risk but they are probably CYA-ing it.

scottfsmith

Injecting it through the valve stem is not pouring it in the tire, you are not following the instructions written on their webpage. I don't think you are following the instructions in the video either but valve vs valve stem is not clear terminology.

If you don't want to follow instructions, that's fine, just don't pretend that you are following all the instructions when you are directly contradicting them.

scottfsmith

I claim that you are following non-ambiguous, non-contradictory instructions, namely the ones written on the webpage.

Koyote

If everyone always followed instructions, there would be no speeding tickets.

If anyone wants to put even "race" sealant through the valve stem and ensure nothing gets clogged, just finish up by jamming a Q-Tip in the valve afterwards to make sure nothing sticks inside it. After all, the sealant won't solidify instantly.

Duragrouch

OP: Never abrade/sand anything on a rim unless it's to make it smoother. Rims are highly stressed and sanding scratches can act as fatigue crack initiation points, especially on aluminum which fatigues easier. I have on rare occasions, carefully used an aggressive grade of Scotch-Brite or fine sandpaper on a block, or a fine file, on aluminum rim sidewalls that showed galling and were tearing through brake pads, they needed smoothing.

For the sealant, use whatever solvent is appropriate. If needed, soak the rim, a section at a time, in a bath of the stuff, or water if that works.

Kapusta

What I don't get is that if the Race sealant can clog the valve stem when putting it in... why does it not clog it in use? I mean how does it clog a stem with no valve in it and then not clog a valve when it is put back in?

Like someone said, if some gets stuck in there when you are putting the stuff in, just push it through with something like a zip tie or hex wrench.