Alcanbrad

This brings to mind a conversation I had with a park ranger in the Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area about a very steep section of road where there are more pot holes than there is smooth pavement (some of you may know the stretch I am talking about). I asked him if the park service had any intention of patching these canyons and he said no, but then said off the record, in his previous assignment somewhere in New Mexico to get pot holes patched, cyclists would come out and spray paint brightly colored penises all over the pot holes then later call and complain about all the penis graffiti on the road which would result in the pot holes being quickly patched. Seems like an effective approach

Nick & Chris

Was marked (a few days after the accident) by a nice man who lives up near Huntington Lake and was very helpful at the accident scene, including diving the captain down to the valley to the hospital.

We were about a half hour behind the couple that crashed, who are our good friends. Was a pretty frightening scene as they were just loading the stoker into the ambulance when we got there.

If you notice the two holes just above the one they hit, I think what happened was the captain saw the first two holes near the center of the road and moved to the right to avoid them and that led them into the hole that caused the crash which was in the shade and hard to see. Another cyclist had crashed there a couple weeks earlier and I know of one other who hit the hole and ruined a wheel but stayed upright.

The holes were filled in and fixed prior to the Climb to Kaiser ride held last Saturday (but still other hazards on that descent if you are planning on trying it so take it easy). By the way the efforts of Ritterview from this forum were the main reason the holes got fixed after his insistent and numerous contacts to the Forest Service and Congressman's office.

Captain and stoker are doing OK, but it's going to be quite a while before they will be able to ride again.

Carbonfiberboy 

Mildly OT wheel alternative, alu, less expensive: Kinlin XC279 rims (23 X 28), 36 CX-Ray spokes, WI CLD hubs, = ~1700g. We've been using these rims and spokes on CK hubs for many years and have nothing but good to say about them. Fast enough, inexpensive for what they are especially if you build them yourself, like I did. Max top speed so far a little over 60 mph. Never a problem with them. Hit many a pothole. 285 lb. team. We run 28mm Conti 4K IIs tires on them @ 95-100 lbs. "We drop like rocks."

twocicle

Thanks for the update. Yes it is understandable that they maybe dodged the earlier holes and then in the tree shade hit that last one. Wouldn't wish that on anyone cycling.

I know it can be rubbing some salt in the wound, but yikes, those Zipp wheels (low spoke count, low profile carbon) were a catastrophe waiting to happen... and did. Even on a single bike, those wheels need to be treated carefully.

Carbonfiberboy 

The only time I ever saw a rider throw his bike was on a group ride when a guy with 404s hit a pothole and destroyed both wheels. Not that big a pothole, either. The ones in the photos are absolutely deadly, being so long.

twocicle

I've jumped an entire 4x8 sheet of plywood lengthwise on my single during a race event. We practiced hopping our road tandem to clear sidewalk/curbs and now it is no big deal. At 49mph, distance covered for a good hop would easily clear the full length of these potholes, but it does require a readiness and enough lead time (ie: holes not hidden in shade) to setup.

twocicle

these AL rims have been great on our tandem too (our alternate set to deep rim carbons).

FWIW, when we moved to a thru-axle setup, I had another front wheel built up with a disk hub and was left with one extra, new rim and the rim-brake front wheel. Available:
- 1 near new front wheel (32 hole BHS/Kinlin XC279, DT Swiss Aerolight spokes, White Industries MI5/non-disk QR 100mm hub)
- 1 new, unused 32 hole BHS/Kinlin XC279 rim. This could be used to build up a new rear wheel.

PM me if interested.

diabloridr

Plus you don't even need to cleanly hop it, just so you reduce weighting on the wheels as you exit the pothole.

Yamato72

This would take superb bike handling skills and team coordination, do you have any video showing how you do it?

twocicle

We have not filmed ourselves. The trick we found works best is for the stoker to perform her hop a split second after I do. Do not try to hop at exactly the same time.
Just for fun, you can see some others attempt on YouTube https://www.google.com/search?q=how+...nt=firefox-b-1

My wife is so light that I should try doing a nose wheelie on our mtb tandem when going done something really steep. LOL.

Chancy

Folks,

At 47 mph you are traveling 69 ft/sec; fastest reaction time (not time to complete an avoidance maneuver) for a driver is 0.7 seconds (avg. is 1.5 sec); the distance between the potholes appear to be no more than 40-50 feet. You are coming out of a turn at 47 mph and steer to miss the first potholes; by the time you see (assuming no shade) the large pothole and before you can steer around, tell your stoker we need to bunny hop, say a prayer, whatever, you’ve already hit it (0.7 sec at 47 mph = 48 feet traveled). So let’s rule out bunny hopping or any other evasive maneuver.

As for equipment choice, if you had stout wheels and running anything less than 50mm tires you’re most likely getting a pinch flat and quick deflation. With 32 mm & narrower tires I would suspect a blowout. I doubt many, if any of us could keep our tandems upright, assuming we were (the bike may not of even been back vertical yet from steering to avoid the first potholes), if we had a blowout or rapid deflation at 47 mph, thus we are going down. Many a blow-off, blowout, & rapid flat have taken down singles and tandems, especially with clincher tires.

So let’s not sit back and criticize their equipment choices either, but wish them well and be thankful they were not hurt worse. I know I will be alert and check my speed more on downhills, especially hills we haven’t ridden very recently (which is most for us).

Here’s to a speedy recovery for Terry & Lynn Rueter!

Tailwinds,

Charlie
South Louisiana

akexpress 

Brian
I appreciate your skills and experience but I find it hard to believe at 49 mph one would have a hard time communicating to the stoker the need to hop and pulling off in time especially if the pot hole was not seen until the last minute. You and us both have a fair amount of carbon wheel experience and ride them with confidence but that obstacle could taco any wheel.

twocicle

Disagree. When we ramp up for descents like this, we go on high alert for all kinds of potential events... not just sailing down the road especially when the bad road conditions are known. Like the first and only time we went down Hwy 9 to Saratoga which isn't a bad road, but unknown to us, we did so on super high alert mostly due to traffic but still enjoyed reaching over 56mi/h. My GPS map helps a lot with unknown road descents - a quick glance to see what's coming up next.

Deep section carbon wheels with plenty of spokes will not taco like the ones in question here. More likely a tire blow out or fork failure than anything, neither of which would result in a pleasant day.

Either way, ride with what you can live with.

mtseymour

I'm sure that a skilled team can bunny hop at high speed because I know riders with amazing technical skills (eg. bunny hop more than 30" with flat pedals). We would never try a bunny hop at high speed, but we're always on "high alert" for bad pavement, animals, cars, etc. I don't tell my stoker, but I do everything possible to avoid a wheel or brake failure.

Hope that this couple makes a full recovery and resume riding.

JMarino

So, i just saw that Rolf Wheels came out with a new version of their carbon rims. These are 60mm deep and another $100 over the current version. The dilemma for us now is, do we get a pair. We have almost 2700 miles on our new custom Calfee Dragonfly with the current Rolf carbon wheels on it. When we spec'd the bike, Rolf was the only maker we could find that would warranty the tandem wheels for use actually on a tandem. I am aware of other wheel builders and such that would put a wheel together for us, but that didn't work out. We love the Rolf carbon wheels so an upgrade would be just for kicks. We are a light team - about 265, plus 27 pound bike. any thoughts?

diabloridr

Depends, they weigh a 1/2 pound more than your existing wheels, while gaining the aero advantage of 4 fewer spokes and significantly taller rim height.

If you normally ride flat rides at 20+ MPH average they may make sense.

If you ride hilly terrain normally they likely will be no better and perhaps worse than what you already have.

Paul J

Off topic but we would love to see pictures of your new tandem on a new thread Joe.

woodcycl

Agree with Diabloridr ... 1/2 heavier is a big deal for me given we ride what I consider a medium/moderate hilly area with an average accent on a 25 mile ride of 1300 ft.

Magnum PI

Just curious, did you ever post the photo of the new tandem and the new wheels?

woodcycl

Magnum PI ... we are very happy with our choice of wheelsets! We did end up getting away from the Lightning cranks after a catastrophic MFR/failure.

Magnum PI

Wow, that is stunning! That might win a tandem weight contest if we had one.

Yikes, Lightning crank failure**********

woodcycl

Thank you Magnum PI! We are really pleased with it. On a real sunny day, the paint really pops! With everything attached (including pedals) but no saddlebag, we are right at 30lbs. I've heard of lighter, but I don't believe they have pedals, computer, cages, etc. Plus, we could save another few grams on a carbon stoker handlebar. Plus we hope to get custom carbon stems from Calfee next year. All in all, those two things might save another 1lbs or so. But, honestly, given my weight fluctuates 20 to 25lbs over the season (my wife is only 118 ... jealous!) and together we are around 290 to 300lbs, it is more ME that needs to shed weight and keep it off than the tandem! Ha!

Magnum PI

Aloha Brian! To me, weight on a tandem is not as important as on a single bike. On my single bikes I always worked on lowering the rotating weight of wheels and tires first to get any advantage from getting a jump to catch a wheel or make a move in a group ride or race. On the tandem the added heft of 2 people plus water bottles always resulted in us going off the back when the roads started going up. However, as you know, the joy or riding with your partner far outweighs making the break! Hey my wife is 114 pounds soaking wet!

I see you guys also had a Cannondale road tandem and a Landshark Twinshark. We recently upgraded to an e-assist Twinshark (S&S couplers and gravel geared) and while heavier than our 'Dale, it makes us feel 30 years younger as we now can hang with the first group again. John Slawta put Vision wheels on it and they feel very responsive. I had him spec the whole bike as I haven't been keeping up with the tech side of bikes. I have 165 Lightning cranks on the front so your comments make me a little nervous. Hope I don't have any problems.....

david@raber.us

It has been 6 years since this thread about tandem rims started. The world has changed a bit since then, including recently finding our 1998 Co-Motion stolen from our locked Explorer in our driveway. We found a nice used Carrera, but want to upgrade the wheels since they were optimized for a heavier couple.

Just like Woodcycl, we are right around 290lb to 300lb. Six years after he posted the question, we have the same question regarding today's high-end tandem wheelsets. We run 32m tires and are looking at Spinergy and Rolf. We are a bit shy about the Rolf limiting inflation for 32 tires to 80lbs. We have found that around 88 to 89 is great on the old rims. We would love to get your input on Rolf vs Spinergy for modest speed paved roads and trails.

reburns

I put aluminum rim brake Spinergy tandem wheels on our Speedster about 7 years ago. Max pressure recommended for those wheels at that time was 86 psi for 32mm. I used to run higher pressure than that and replaced the rear rim due to cracks developing around spoke holes before knowing about the pressure limit. I’ve stayed closer to the limit since then and the wheels have been trouble free. With the trend toward wider tires, the recommended limits may have changed. I’d recommend a check with Spinergy.