Drum brakes
#1
30mi/day commuter
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 797
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Drum brakes
How limited are drum brakes? I know they have less stopping power and produce more heat in 1 spot but how limited is it actually. The biggest hill I hit regularly I would hit 60 kph if i didnt brake and im on it for lets say 2-3 minutes.
Would a drum brake explode there? Would it kill me? what about nearby drivers? Would there be a crater?
But seriously would it work?
Also the main advantage I see is less maintenance? Is it that much less? Is it worth it in your opinions?
I know I can google this stuff.. I have... but no one quantifies how bad it is at braking and how little maintenance it is... for good reason.
Would a drum brake explode there? Would it kill me? what about nearby drivers? Would there be a crater?
But seriously would it work?
Also the main advantage I see is less maintenance? Is it that much less? Is it worth it in your opinions?
I know I can google this stuff.. I have... but no one quantifies how bad it is at braking and how little maintenance it is... for good reason.
#2
Licensed Bike Geek
Biggest negatives are that a drum brake with the same braking effectiveness as conventional rim brakes would be large and heavy.
Drum brakes are often used on tandems, where you have only two wheels worth of rim or disc brakes trying to slow down a bike with 2 people on it. The drum brake is an auxiliary brake used mostly as a drag brake, controlled by the captain, to modulate the downhill speeds of the tandem, which can build rapidly and overcome the regular brakes.
Drum brakes are often used on tandems, where you have only two wheels worth of rim or disc brakes trying to slow down a bike with 2 people on it. The drum brake is an auxiliary brake used mostly as a drag brake, controlled by the captain, to modulate the downhill speeds of the tandem, which can build rapidly and overcome the regular brakes.
#3
afraid of whales
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 4,306
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
5 Posts
I have the Sturmey Archer drums on a few bikes, I've used the older steel version for years. They don't heat up the tires like a rim brake will and the pads are much large surface area wise so they are better at dissipating heat compared to rim brakes. I just made up a bike with the Sturmey Archer frt drum/dyno and rear 5 speed/drum. It's too salty on the local roads to give it a good test:
#4
30mi/day commuter
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 797
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
so heat isnt really a problem? just braking power? Can you brake quickly while descending a hill like the example I gave? I know even if my rim brakes arent perfectly tuned I can still stop quickly... so are drum brakes just a little weaker than rim brakes... or very noticeably weaker ?
#5
Senior Member
I had a dutch gazelle with some drums on them, and a part had snapped and I had a hard time finding replacement parts for them. They also needed some servicing and/or adjustment but I couldn't find much info online about doing that.
It seems that discs are way easier to find parts for and a lot more common, and therefore cheaper, than drums. I don't have any experience with discs though, they might not be as low maintenance as drums... I dunno, but I plan on finding out on the next city bike I build.
It seems that discs are way easier to find parts for and a lot more common, and therefore cheaper, than drums. I don't have any experience with discs though, they might not be as low maintenance as drums... I dunno, but I plan on finding out on the next city bike I build.
#6
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,936
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3571 Post(s)
Liked 3,367 Times
in
1,916 Posts
I've been using Maillard drums on my commuter bike for about 25 years now. They work fine, but feel mushier than caliper brakes. OTOH, there's no problem with rim wear, and weather doesn't affect them.
Oh, yeah. I have an Atom drum brake on the rear wheel of my tandem, too. No problems there, either.
Oh, yeah. I have an Atom drum brake on the rear wheel of my tandem, too. No problems there, either.
#7
30mi/day commuter
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 797
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I've been using Maillard drums on my commuter bike for about 25 years now. They work fine, but feel mushier than caliper brakes. OTOH, there's no problem with rim wear, and weather doesn't affect them.
so heat isnt really a problem? just braking power? Can you brake quickly while descending a hill like the example I gave? I know even if my rim brakes arent perfectly tuned I can still stop quickly... so are drum brakes just a little weaker than rim brakes... or very noticeably weaker ?
Last edited by chico1st; 01-04-10 at 05:28 PM.
#8
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,078
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
4 Posts
I loosened up the reaction arm of a 70mm X-FD. It may not be the best gear for a clyde or a strong rider, though I guess I was pretty aggressive with it.
Sturmey drums are easy to maintain. The pads are retained by a pushnut and are easy to change. The front drums have cartridge bearings.
Sturmey drums are easy to maintain. The pads are retained by a pushnut and are easy to change. The front drums have cartridge bearings.
#9
Senior member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,108
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 937 Post(s)
Liked 652 Times
in
367 Posts
so even though they are mushier.. you have never had issues stopping? That is my main concern... I work reasonably hard to avoid death/serious injury
Can anyone speak to maintanance of drum brakes... say for a Nexus 8... impossible maintenance would turn me off of them.
Can anyone speak to maintanance of drum brakes... say for a Nexus 8... impossible maintenance would turn me off of them.
The only maintenance required is a periodic shot of special Shimano roller brake grease which is readilly available.
#10
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,936
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3571 Post(s)
Liked 3,367 Times
in
1,916 Posts
Can anyone speak to maintanance of drum brakes... say for a Nexus 8... impossible maintenance would turn me off of them.
#11
afraid of whales
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 4,306
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
5 Posts
Until I get a flat. The Nexus Roller brake requires me to remove the cable by loosening the anchor bolt. The Sturmey has a quick release. IMHO, the Sturmey is much easier to use, both have about the same braking power, both require about the same amount of maintanence.
#12
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,691
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 510 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7287 Post(s)
Liked 2,364 Times
in
1,382 Posts
I have the Sturmey Archer drums on a few bikes, I've used the older steel version for years. They don't heat up the tires like a rim brake will and the pads are much large surface area wise so they are better at dissipating heat compared to rim brakes. I just made up a bike with the Sturmey Archer frt drum/dyno and rear 5 speed/drum. It's too salty on the local roads to give it a good test:
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#13
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,078
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
4 Posts
I would always keep the brakes engaged while waiting to cross a street hoping the pads would transfer some of their heat to the drum and then the atmosphere. I think they fade because they get too hot.
#14
Senior member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,108
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 937 Post(s)
Liked 652 Times
in
367 Posts
https://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830612998.pdf
All other models of Shimano roller brakes I've dealt with had a qr system.
Last edited by Dan Burkhart; 01-05-10 at 03:11 PM.
#15
Senior Member
I went with discs for my winter commuting once the cost of them came down to a reasonable level. That was about 8 or 10 years ago. Very little work needed even in winter to keep them running. Out here in the NorthWET this amounted to spritzing them clean with automotive brake cleaner a couple of times a season when I noticed the pads were not retracting fully and were scuffing lightly when not engaged. And that's pretty good compared to the absolute mess that the rim brakes would be in after only a couple of rainy day commutes. And best of all they don't fade at all even when I do the long and steep run down into New Westminster from up on top of the hill on the Burnaby side. For those that know the area this is pretty high praise for the brakes. And best of all parts and replacement pads are easy to get. Speaking of pads I typically got 3 years out of a set. But truth be known I was riding 3 bikes more or less equally for my commuter and errand riding. So figure on one year per set of pads. The rotors wear lightly as well but should easily last about 8 to 10 years even with winter salt and other crud. The salt may attack the calipers but if you get good painted ones and keep them slicked up with a good car wax or something else non-oily they should be fine.
#17
afraid of whales
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 4,306
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
5 Posts
Disc are best but difficult to retrofit onto older bikes, esp the rear brake. Even the front requires a new fork along with the new hub, caliper/rotor kit.
For a front drum/dyno: I bought a Sturmey Archer Dynohub/drumbrake hub for $70.
For disc retrofit: I bought a SRAM/Shimano disc/dynohub for $70, a disk kit for $70 (BB7) and a new fork for $60 (Dimension)
Still 3x the cost for a disc, they both weight within a few 10s of grams of each other overall.
For a front drum/dyno: I bought a Sturmey Archer Dynohub/drumbrake hub for $70.
For disc retrofit: I bought a SRAM/Shimano disc/dynohub for $70, a disk kit for $70 (BB7) and a new fork for $60 (Dimension)
Still 3x the cost for a disc, they both weight within a few 10s of grams of each other overall.
#18
Senior member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,108
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 937 Post(s)
Liked 652 Times
in
367 Posts
https://bike.shimano.com/media/techdo...9830646632.pdf
It can be a bit tricky to get apart. I prefer the other type.
#19
Senior Member
Disc are best but difficult to retrofit onto older bikes, esp the rear brake. Even the front requires a new fork along with the new hub, caliper/rotor kit.
For a front drum/dyno: I bought a Sturmey Archer Dynohub/drumbrake hub for $70.
For disc retrofit: I bought a SRAM/Shimano disc/dynohub for $70, a disk kit for $70 (BB7) and a new fork for $60 (Dimension)
Still 3x the cost for a disc, they both weight within a few 10s of grams of each other overall.
For a front drum/dyno: I bought a Sturmey Archer Dynohub/drumbrake hub for $70.
For disc retrofit: I bought a SRAM/Shimano disc/dynohub for $70, a disk kit for $70 (BB7) and a new fork for $60 (Dimension)
Still 3x the cost for a disc, they both weight within a few 10s of grams of each other overall.
#20
afraid of whales
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 4,306
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
5 Posts
No, they can also run at a much higher temp. Rim brake's max temp is limited by the tire's max temp and the rubber brake pad's max temp, very low. Drum brake's max temp is limited by the drum's compostite brake pads max temp, very high. There's square laws involved too, kenetic energy etc.
Last edited by Mr IGH; 01-05-10 at 07:27 PM.
#22
1991 PBP Anciens
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Elburn, Illannoy
Posts: 594
Bikes: 1954 Robin Hood, 1964 Dunelt, 1968 Raleigh Superbe, 1969 Robin Hood, 197? Gitane, 1973 Raleigh SuperCourse, 1981 Miyata 710, 1990 Miyata 600GT, 2007 Rivendell Bleriot
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 241 Times
in
94 Posts
No, they can also run at a much higher temp. Rim brake's max temp is limited by the tire's max temp and the rubber brake pad's max temp, very low. Drum brake's max temp is limited by the compostite drum's brake pads max temp. very high. There's square laws involved too, kenetic energy etc.
While descending a very steep hill at 50+mph in France in '91 I had to grab a few handfuls of brake lever to panic stop for a red light (blowing it would have been fatal). I managed a text book, controlled stop at the signal. The guys I was riding with caught up and one asked "Who burned a clutch?" I said "Watch this" and spit on my front hub. The 'sizzle' was telling of how hot they can get.
Likes For bikamper:
#23
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,691
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 510 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7287 Post(s)
Liked 2,364 Times
in
1,382 Posts
OK, thanks, Mr IGH.
Drum brakes are tempting for me to try, but I can't justify the expense, given that my rim brakes are working fine for me.
Drum brakes are tempting for me to try, but I can't justify the expense, given that my rim brakes are working fine for me.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#24
30mi/day commuter
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 797
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
While descending a very steep hill at 50+mph in France in '91 I had to grab a few handfuls of brake lever to panic stop for a red light (blowing it would have been fatal). I managed a text book, controlled stop at the signal. The guys I was riding with caught up and one asked "Who burned a clutch?" I said "Watch this" and spit on my front hub. The 'sizzle' was telling of how hot they can get.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,688
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1074 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times
in
222 Posts
Would pretty much depend on what kind of riding you're planning to use them for, and perhaps your hand strength. I've got a pair of old Sachs drums on my main commuter and don't consider them limiting at all.
I can lock both wheels, even on high friction surfaces, what more can you ask for?
Admittedly, locking the front takes a tad more effort than on some imaginary "average bike", but it's still easily doable.
For my commute - not an issue.
Highly unlikely, it may possibly fade some.
Less maintenance, and more consistent braking performance regardless of weather. Even discs can change a bit in rain and humid conditions.
Mine were far from new when I got them. I had them apart and realized that I needn't have bothered. Since then I've had them apart once more to try to sort out a brake squeal issue, and really couldn't see any traces of accumulated wear.
For my commuter - definitely.
If I had reduced hand strenght, had serious descents on my route, or prioritized weight I probably wouldn't have used drums. But for acceptable, dependable performance on the commuter I think they're ideal. The issues I've had is with brake squeal, and for the rear to find the right balance between no drag at idle and lockup before bottoming out.
Do note that this isn't something I've really worked on, I slapped the bike together mostly by bits I had around. It is entirely possible that a new set of cables/wires, maybe with another lever would cure this.
As far as spares goes, there aren't any to available to these brakes. But I've checked with a local workshop who does industrial brakes and clutches, and they're willing to resurface the brake shoes for a reasonable cost.
I can lock both wheels, even on high friction surfaces, what more can you ask for?
Admittedly, locking the front takes a tad more effort than on some imaginary "average bike", but it's still easily doable.
For my commute - not an issue.
Highly unlikely, it may possibly fade some.
Mine were far from new when I got them. I had them apart and realized that I needn't have bothered. Since then I've had them apart once more to try to sort out a brake squeal issue, and really couldn't see any traces of accumulated wear.
For my commuter - definitely.
Do note that this isn't something I've really worked on, I slapped the bike together mostly by bits I had around. It is entirely possible that a new set of cables/wires, maybe with another lever would cure this.
As far as spares goes, there aren't any to available to these brakes. But I've checked with a local workshop who does industrial brakes and clutches, and they're willing to resurface the brake shoes for a reasonable cost.