When ignorant cops think they know the law
#51
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I don't see how that makes a practical difference. The officer in the OP was accusing the man in the video of violating the law. During every traffic stop, the officer observed a violation so they are all accusations.
#52
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Regarding the first thing I bolded, no, unless you're being suspected of a misdemeanor or a felony, they have no right to detain you.
Also, most is a misnomer, 24 states are "stop and identify", making that law a minority, rather than a majority.
As for the second one, Illinois IS a "stop and identify" state. However, just like my first point, one must first be suspected of committing a crime (misdemeanor or felony). See my first post for most details.
It's worrisome that so many people are mistaken about what law enforcement may, and may not do when making contact with someone.
Also, most is a misnomer, 24 states are "stop and identify", making that law a minority, rather than a majority.
As for the second one, Illinois IS a "stop and identify" state. However, just like my first point, one must first be suspected of committing a crime (misdemeanor or felony). See my first post for most details.
It's worrisome that so many people are mistaken about what law enforcement may, and may not do when making contact with someone.
Under your rule of law, no more officer discretion or driver's excuses are allowed for a traffic stop, all suspicion or questions will have to be elevated to an "accusation"/ticket in order to legally stop/"detain" a motorist, cyclist or pedestrian, and only the court system can resolve the issue.
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 09-29-19 at 01:58 PM.
#53
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#54
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Using your badge to detain someone and question them about their personal information is very harmful. Policing is not about stopping people randomly to question them for reasons to arrest them. That type of policing sets a terrible precedent. Particularly after he learned the stop was for no good reason.
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#55
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Cops don't win when they do not know the law and just make it up themselves on the fly.
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#56
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He remembered an 'and' instead of the 'or' in the law. What he remembered would be a reasonable law and, in any case, his original intention was just to inform the cyclist he was difficult to see. No malice intended.
Last edited by gregf83; 10-02-19 at 03:54 AM.
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#57
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I think the older man has his safety covered pretty well all on his own. He even took the time to educate himself on the cycling laws in his new state. Yet another advantage he has over the cop.
In fact there was malice. Cops don't run your ID because they want to get to know you better. He was fishing for violations hoping he could find something wrong so he could arrest the cyclist. Or at minimum, save himself from the ignominy of having been schooled by the much smarter cyclist. The cop was wrong on all counts. I just hope he learned something from that experience.
Last edited by KraneXL; 09-30-19 at 06:22 AM.
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Take a look at the cop then take a good look at the gentleman. From my perspective the man doesn't look like he's in need of a guardian to teach him how to ride safely. He's a grown man and in compliance with the law. Any additional equipment beyond that the cop or anyone else might think he needs is his choice.
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#59
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Neither the bicyclist or a pedestrian are required to use a rear light. So the cop by his poor knowledge of the law should be stopping pedestrians at night when they are hard to see if they do not have a rear light and falsely claim they are required to have such a light. And then when the cop finds out he is wrong, he should not issue an apology to the pedestrian.
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#60
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If there was no malice towards cyclist, such as thinking most of us are drug addicts or drug couriers, then the cop would have admitted he was wrong and given an apology.
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#61
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And that has nothing to do with the cop making an illegal stop.
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Neither the bicyclist or a pedestrian are required to use a rear light. So the cop by his poor knowledge of the law should be stopping pedestrians at night when they are hard to see if they do not have a rear light and falsely claim they are required to have such a light. And then when the cop finds out he is wrong, he should not issue an apology to the pedestrian.
Anyway, I'm not arguing it with you. Believe what you like.
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#66
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The best thing to do if you feel your rights are being violated is to give the minimum (your name and address if asked), then to keep silent. Remember, police get to pool their knowledge and experience so don't try to outsmart them.
Last edited by KraneXL; 10-01-19 at 04:02 AM.
#67
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Then there are these two cops:
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#68
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That route is one of the most popular cycling thoroughfares in Dade county. Never had an issue with cops there though.
Too bad he didn't show any footage of the bike.
Last edited by KraneXL; 10-01-19 at 09:01 AM.
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In fact there was malice. Cops don't run your ID because they want to get to know you better. He was fishing for violations hoping he could find something wrong so he could arrest the cyclist. Or at minimum, save himself from the ignominy of having been schooled by the much smarter cyclist. The cop was wrong on all counts. I just hope he learned something from that experience.
#70
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"In general" without "reasonable suspicion", you are not required in the US to provide ID, just name. But... you should then be prepared to wait as long as it takes for them to verify your information.
Driving a motor vehicle is a different ball game with a license required.
See "Stop & Identify" laws
See also "Terry Stop"
Driving a motor vehicle is a different ball game with a license required.
See "Stop & Identify" laws
See also "Terry Stop"
#71
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It's SOP to run people for warrants when you stop them. How is the cop supposed to know whether or not someone is wanted or not if they don't check warrants? The simple fact that the cop let him go on his merry, unlighted way after seeing that he's clean means that there was no malice involved, just routine warrant check.
Cops have always done this, I remember hitchhiking in the 70's, every time a cop drove past my location, they would stop, ask for my ID, and run it for warrants. I wasn't breaking the law, cops are just nosy, it's their job. Your job, as a responsible law-abiding citizen with better things to do than debating search and seizure concepts by the side of the road with a guy who has a loaded pistol strapped to his hip, is to not appear suspicious or out of place, so that cops don't take notice of you, and they won't waste your time doing routine (and completely legal) warrant checks.
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#73
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It's SOP to run people for warrants when you stop them. How is the cop supposed to know whether or not someone is wanted or not if they don't check warrants? The simple fact that the cop let him go on his merry, unlighted way after seeing that he's clean means that there was no malice involved, just routine warrant check.
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It's SOP to run people for warrants when you stop them. How is the cop supposed to know whether or not someone is wanted or not if they don't check warrants? The simple fact that the cop let him go on his merry, unlighted way after seeing that he's clean means that there was no malice involved, just routine warrant check.
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#75
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The glitch there is the extent of the laws and proving those fine distinctions. Something that can prove difficult even with lawyers in a court of law. Besides, there is a natural tendency to cooperate and answer questions and police are good at getting you to do so.
The best thing to do if you feel your rights are being violated is to give the minimum (your name and address if asked), then to keep silent. Remember, police get to pool their knowledge and experience so don't try to outsmart them.
The best thing to do if you feel your rights are being violated is to give the minimum (your name and address if asked), then to keep silent. Remember, police get to pool their knowledge and experience so don't try to outsmart them.