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Light Bicycle Wheels

Old 07-17-19, 04:47 PM
  #701  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
So.. dumb question time.. why is there such a thing as a J-bend spoke? What purpose do they serve?
https://www.artscyclery.com/ask-a-me...t-pull-spokes/
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Old 07-17-19, 05:00 PM
  #702  
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Thanks! Informative article. As relates to the LB, handmade and bladed option spokes available, it seems (?) that there would be no advantage to going with JBend, right? At least insofar if they could ship a few extra spare spokes for the correct lengths needed.
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Old 07-17-19, 06:01 PM
  #703  
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Yeah, that page makes some reasonable points... although I'd say that whole thing about tuning the wheel's compliance by varying the spoke pattern is a bunch of wank. Like tying and soldering, it makes no difference - a spoke is either radial or tangential; very little tangent is required to adequately transmit drive and braking (for discs only of course; tangential spokes on a rim braked front do nothing except allow a pair of crossed spokes to slightly share load).

As for round straight-pull spokes, they shouldn't even be a thing. Also, almost all proprietary steel straight-pull spokes can be replaced with standard ones with little if any disadvantage beyond the ends of the bladed sections being in different places.

It puts more strain on the spoke heads, so very occasionally one will fail there, but I'd put that down to manufacturing flaws.

Folks can argue about whether it makes much difference to durability, but there's no disputing that straight-pull hubs are much sleeker and more aero, and thus, most importantly, sexier.
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Old 07-17-19, 08:26 PM
  #704  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
So.. dumb question time.. why is there such a thing as a J-bend spoke? What purpose do they serve?
Much easier to make hubs/flanges for J-bend than straight-pull.
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Old 07-19-19, 10:22 AM
  #705  
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Mack hubs arrived from Poland in three weeks.

Rims were ordered from LB almost five weeks ago and have not arrived. I'm not worried or upset. Just want to get this done and do some riding.

Thinking out loud, I guess I should order some Black Prince pads too.


-Tim-
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Old 07-19-19, 10:26 AM
  #706  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Mack hubs arrived from Poland in three weeks.

Rims were ordered from LB almost five weeks ago and have not arrived. I'm not worried or upset. Just want to get this done and do some riding.

Thinking out loud, I guess I should order some Black Prince pads too.


-Tim-
Have they been shipped?
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Old 07-19-19, 11:07 AM
  #707  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Have they been shipped?
Shipped 7/3.

Edit: I just checked tracking information. There had been zero updates since 7/4 but lots of activity since yesterday, the 18th when the rims apparently passed customs at JFK airport in New York City. Bottom line, the rims are at my local post office today.


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Last edited by TimothyH; 07-19-19 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 07-19-19, 12:54 PM
  #708  
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Stealth graphics were ordered. This looks like white.

Do these look like stealth or white to you guys?




Last edited by TimothyH; 07-30-19 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 07-19-19, 01:11 PM
  #709  
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It looks like I'd be getting busy with some peeling.
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Old 07-19-19, 02:34 PM
  #710  
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You don't want to be riding on sidewalls. At all. Don't do it.

You are doing beta testing. Wide rims changes everything and absolutely no one knows all the answers, or even all the questions. Until ISO speaks on the issue (which could be a while) the only authoritative guide is ETRTO. They say no more than 17mm internal width on the rim for a 25mm tire. 20mm rims don't work for them until the tire is 32mm. ETRTO is very conservative. If you and the rim and tire mfrs follows their guidance there will never ever be a problem. Riding outside their guidance you get what you get and you can tell us how it worked.

If cornering hard is what you do it makes little sense to use lower pressure in front. Downhill cornering all the weight goes to front. Cornering of any type involves deceleration and will transfer weight to front. Front/rear pressure differential is for getting maximum wear out of your tires.
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Old 07-19-19, 02:54 PM
  #711  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
You don't want to be riding on sidewalls. At all. Don't do it.

You are doing beta testing. Wide rims changes everything and absolutely no one knows all the answers, or even all the questions. Until ISO speaks on the issue (which could be a while) the only authoritative guide is ETRTO. They say no more than 17mm internal width on the rim for a 25mm tire. 20mm rims don't work for them until the tire is 32mm. ETRTO is very conservative. If you and the rim and tire mfrs follows their guidance there will never ever be a problem. Riding outside their guidance you get what you get and you can tell us how it worked.

If cornering hard is what you do it makes little sense to use lower pressure in front. Downhill cornering all the weight goes to front. Cornering of any type involves deceleration and will transfer weight to front. Front/rear pressure differential is for getting maximum wear out of your tires.
You may want to read the following linked article.. especially near the end above the rim/tire compatibility charts. Evidently ETRTO now can allow a 25mm tire on up to a 21mm internal width rim (tubeless hooked rim), but they now tie what's possible to maximum inflation pressures.

https://engineerstalk.mavic.com/en/t...ght-rim-width/
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Old 07-19-19, 03:08 PM
  #712  
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Well, speaking with Paul at Light Bicycle customer service, apparently what is seen in the photo above is their idea of stealth. I decided not to get into a discussion of the semantics of the word stealth, if only for the sake of peace, but they don't look to stealthy to me. Maybe I was thinking of "Ghost." I did suggest that they drop the term stealth and just say that it is gray.

To his credit, Paul stated that he had personally applied and peeled the graphics himself and that they come off reasonably easy. He also offered a set of decals in another color for no charge.

So yeah, had I know I would have ordered with no graphics. I'm not sure I want to peel them, at least not yet. I can always do that later.

Advertised weight is 435 g +/- 15 g.

24 hole...


20 hole...



-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 07-19-19 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 07-19-19, 03:31 PM
  #713  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Well, speaking with Paul at Light Bicycle customer service, apparently what is seen in the photo above is their idea of stealth. I decided not to get into a discussion of the semantics of the word stealth, if only for the sake of peace, but they don't look to stealthy to me. Maybe I was thinking of "Ghost." I did suggest that they drop the term stealth and just say that it is gray.

To his credit, Paul stated that he had personally applied and peeled the graphics himself and that they come off reasonably easy. He also offered a set of decals in another color for no charge.

-Tim-
Hmmm... the ease of removal seems a bit contradictory to what's said on their ordering page?
"Road rims use super light waterslide decals (glossy black). The decal is very thin and applied under a clearcoat so they are non-removeable."

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Old 07-19-19, 03:52 PM
  #714  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
You may want to read the following linked article.. especially near the end above the rim/tire compatibility charts. Evidently ETRTO now can allow a 25mm tire on up to a 21mm internal width rim (tubeless hooked rim), but they now tie what's possible to maximum inflation pressures.

https://engineerstalk.mavic.com/en/t...ght-rim-width/
Thank you. I did want to read that. My information was coming from a post by Jan Heine just two weeks old and had presumed that since he is making tires he'd be using current info. In any event the discrepancy here points out how fluid the situation is and how fast things are changing. ETRTO is a stopgap, really wish ISO would speak.

Different width rims do change how the tread faces the pavement. Figuring out all the variables is complex. Complex for the manufacturers and really hard for those who use the product.
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Old 07-19-19, 03:56 PM
  #715  
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Hmm, re-read the Mavic engineerstalk posting and saw it is dated September 2015. The chart Heine reproduced is straight from ETRTO and in identical format to the chart from Mavic. Frankly, I am puzzled.
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Old 07-19-19, 06:54 PM
  #716  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Hmmm... the ease of removal seems a bit contradictory to what's said on their ordering page?
"Road rims use super light waterslide decals (glossy black). The decal is very thin and applied under a clearcoat so they are non-removeable."


Thanks. I didn't notice that.

Something is wrong with that claim because these were not waterslide decals under clearcoat. I peeled them off about an hour ago. They are simple stickers and came off very easily.


-Tim-
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Old 07-19-19, 07:14 PM
  #717  
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Most of you guys are using Black Prince pads?

My concern is wet weather performance. Are the Black Prince pads good in the wet? What about the Yellow King?

I'm used to Koolstop salmon on alloy wheels and so have some pretty high expectations about how a wet weather pad should work.

I'm asking out of ignorance. This is my first set of carbon, rim brake wheels.


-Tim-
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Old 07-19-19, 07:29 PM
  #718  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Thanks. I didn't notice that.

Something is wrong with that claim because these were not waterslide decals under clearcoat. I peeled them off about an hour ago. They are simple stickers and came off very easily.


-Tim-
Probably just plain outdated info. Products and processes change.

Granted was kind of punk to mess it up, especially with global shipping being slow. Least they tried to make it right.
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Old 07-21-19, 12:31 AM
  #719  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
You don't want to be riding on sidewalls. At all. Don't do it.

You are doing beta testing. Wide rims changes everything and absolutely no one knows all the answers, or even all the questions. Until ISO speaks on the issue (which could be a while) the only authoritative guide is ETRTO. They say no more than 17mm internal width on the rim for a 25mm tire. 20mm rims don't work for them until the tire is 32mm. ETRTO is very conservative. If you and the rim and tire mfrs follows their guidance there will never ever be a problem. Riding outside their guidance you get what you get and you can tell us how it worked.

If cornering hard is what you do it makes little sense to use lower pressure in front. Downhill cornering all the weight goes to front. Cornering of any type involves deceleration and will transfer weight to front. Front/rear pressure differential is for getting maximum wear out of your tires.
I admit I sort of knew these were murky waters when I bought these wheels - and thatís what intrigued me the most. I wonít starve if I end up having to sell these wheels, thankfully, so if these wheels turn out to be unviable, Iím ok with that.

I assume you saw that updated chart from mavic about rim widths vs tire widths. 28c is approved for upto 25mm rims. The ratio of tire to rim is close enough for me that Iím not worried about inflation - especially since I donít weigh very much.

What is confusing, though, is that itís unclear what a 25 or 28c tire is supposed to measure to. GP4k, GP5k, Sworks Turbo and P zero tires all measure differently on the same rim despite having the same or similar nominal widths. For example, I would not run a 25c GP5000 on these rims because they are quite narrow. A 28c GP5000 is closer to a 25c P zero. Regardless, I am not worried about inflation issues for the time being.

I would certainly be riding on sidewall if I put a 25c P Zero on a 21mm rim - an approved ETRTO combination. I donít believe that a 2mm increase in rim width is to blame for 3-5mm of sidewall use on either side of the rim. However, the jump from 17mm to 23mm is enough that I can feel the sidewall a lot earlier (or at least I think I can), which concerns me. This entire issue has not been even remotely addressed by the bike industry. Iíve never even seen tread width addressed as a measurement. The ETRTO probably has not standardized tread width - an obviously important element of tire construction. In the meantime, it may be wise to avoid tires with overly narrow treads like the P Zero. This is an utter failure on the part of the bike industry, in my opinion, because mountain bikes went through the exact same issues and yet the road tire industry refused to learn from them.

I run my front tire low for extra traction on rough descents. Not really for equal wear.

Iíll shut up for the meantime about this whole sidewall issue. I think Iíve blabbed enough about it and people get the point. Let this thread resume LB related queries.
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Old 07-22-19, 06:00 AM
  #720  
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What direction should the grooves in the brake track face?

For those who have grooved graphene brake track on wheels built by Light Bicycle, which way do they face, open end or closed end toward the direction of rotation?

I have the rims but don't know which side the freehub should be on when building them.


-Tim-
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Old 07-22-19, 07:20 AM
  #721  
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This is the first time I've seen these.
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Old 07-22-19, 07:31 AM
  #722  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
What direction should the grooves in the brake track face?

For those who have grooved graphene brake track on wheels built by Light Bicycle, which way do they face, open end or closed end toward the direction of rotation?

I have the rims but don't know which side the freehub should be on when building them.


-Tim-
I'll get a pic this evening, I want to say closed end toward the front.

And those are definitely not the waterslide graphics, those are just regular stickers.
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Old 07-22-19, 10:06 AM
  #723  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Pretty disappointed.

Stealth graphics were ordered. This looks like white.

Do these look like stealth or white to you guys?

I know you already peeled, but I'm playing catch up. Those look like crap. Like a new logo design --or an old one, and those are definitely stickers. Maybe the graphene-track rims don't get the same clear-coat decal treatment, or you got a beta logo set. shrug. I'd be peeling away too. Oh, and that's definitely white. Can't wait to see them in action--
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Old 07-23-19, 06:16 AM
  #724  
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Light Bicycle emailed the graphic below.

As suspected, the grooves point in the direction of travel.

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Old 07-23-19, 10:37 AM
  #725  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Light Bicycle emailed the graphic below.

As suspected, the grooves point in the direction of travel.

Has anyone tested the performance of the grooved brake track? wondering if it provides any improvement in performance over the std 'high temp' brake track.
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