Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Touring
Reload this Page >

Not just for touring bikes anymore...

Notices
Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

Not just for touring bikes anymore...

Old 08-11-19, 04:55 PM
  #1  
WGD
Member
Thread Starter
 
WGD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 28

Bikes: 1984 Miyata 1000, 1984 Univega Specialissima (frame), 1993 Miyata 1000LT, 1987 Raleigh Ventura, 1935 Golden Sunbeam, Early '50s Columbia Bomber

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Not just for touring bikes anymore...

If you watch the 1973 Giro díItalia highlights on YouTube, you might spot Josť Fuente (who won the Mountains Classification that year) using barcons. Maybe I donít get out enough, but I donít remember ever seeing a world-class rider using them. They obviously didnít hinder his performance. Or maybe they did and he might have beaten Eddy Merckx if he had used traditional down tube shifters. No... probably not.
WGD is offline  
Old 08-11-19, 07:11 PM
  #2  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 9,100
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1194 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 49 Posts
Im not old enough to really remember this stuff, but it seems to me that Ive read of some racers who used them and used their knee to whack shift in sprints to get the jump on other riders, or maybe someone told me this once....but I certainly dont think this was widespread at all.
djb is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 03:52 AM
  #3  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 5,922

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1316 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 30 Times in 26 Posts
I recall back in the early 70s seeing bar end shifters listed in a catalog of Campy components but never actually saw any. A couple years ago I saw some vintage Campy bar end shifters for the first time, someone had them at a swap meet. They were quite rare back in that era considering that I worked in a bike shop in the early 70s but never actually saw any.

I think I bought my first set of bar end shifters in the late 70s or early 80s. At that time Suntour bar end shifters were the favorite ones, they had a ratcheting mechanism that worked well to counteract the derailleur spring tension since back then all shifters were friction. I bought the Shimano bar end shifters instead of the Suntour, they were on sale and much more affordable than the Suntour ones. The Shimano ones had a spring inside to counteract the derailleur spring, I recall having to work at getting the friction setting just right.

I still have a bike with down tube friction shifters that I almost never ride. I did not like taking one hand off the bars when going fast down hills or when riding on bumpy terrain, and bar end shifters were the only viable way to shift with both hands on the handle bars at that time. Thus, their popularity for touring bikes before brifters became available. But I can see where a racer could want to keep both hands on the handlebars at times while also being able to shift, so it does not surprise me that some racers used them..

I have friction downtube shifter for front only on my rando bike, I put that on in 2016 as a temporary measure when I built up the bike, but have not gotten around to replacing it yet, thus it is becoming less temporary over time.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 04:52 AM
  #4  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,183
Mentioned: 172 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9058 Post(s)
Liked 685 Times in 423 Posts
Anymore? Who races with them in this era?
indyfabz is online now  
Old 08-12-19, 06:16 AM
  #5  
Bandera 
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,936
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 144 Times in 93 Posts
Originally Posted by djb View Post
Im not old enough to really remember this stuff, but it seems to me that Ive read of some racers who used them and used ....but I certainly dont think this was widespread at all.
Bar-cons in the late '60's and through the mid-70's were common enough on road race bikes both here in the States and in Europe.
Almost universal on Cyclo Cross bikes of the era lots of us who were riding a Criterium heavy calendar preferred them in the tight quarters of a Crit for having hands-on-bars shifting.
Indexed integrated brake-shifters made DT & Barcon both obsolete for racing just as indexed DT did for friction shifting.

Shooting a line of far-fetched BS to non-racers has-been/still-is part of Bike Racer Culture, it's best done with a straight face, like this:

some racers who used them and used their knee to whack shift in sprints to get the jump on other riders, or maybe someone told me this once...


-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh Internat'l. '77 Trek TX900 FG. '90 Vitus 979. '10 Merckx EMX3. '13 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 06:35 AM
  #6  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 9,100
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1194 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 49 Posts
morning Mr Flag, not sure if you're saying that I'm full of malarky, but even if so, I'm fine with that ;-)
Neat to hear of them being common enough, and interesting about the cross bikes. A good friend of mine still has a late 80s Fuji cross bike that has them, nope I think its a Miyata actually, maybe a 89 or thereabout, complete with flared out drop bars.

my knee shift comment was really just a vague recollection I have, can't recall if an old roommate told me that, or I read it, or who knows--a 35 year old plus "sort of" memory....but thats funny that you reckon its a baloney line.

and makes complete sense for the Crit stuff. I rode dt for decades in city traffic and potholes galore ommuting, so get it.
cheers
djb is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 07:46 AM
  #7  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 5,922

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1316 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 30 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by djb View Post
...
my knee shift comment was really just a vague recollection I have, can't recall if an old roommate told me that, or I read it, or who knows--a 35 year old plus "sort of" memory....but thats funny that you reckon its a baloney line.
...
I was not going to say anything on the knee thing, but I think I once bumped my knee on a bar end shifter and the unplanned whack on the side of the handlebar coupled with an unplanned sudden upshift almost made me crash. I can't see anyone intentionally trying to use their knee to push on a lever that is attached to their steering controls when they are cycling in a high stress situation, especially if there was no reason to not use their hand for that purpose.

But I could see some racer saying the knee thing as a line of BS that was intended to impress those that were gullible.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 08:22 AM
  #8  
Bandera 
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,936
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 144 Times in 93 Posts
Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
But I could see some racer saying the knee thing as a line of BS that was intended to impress those that were gullible.
Our favorite Tall Tale was "The Legend of Big Miles Jimmy".

On Saturday winter base miles rides as a club Jimmy, a noted TT specialist and wit, would continue on at our turnaround point and ride off into the distance.
"Where's Jimmy going?" the newbies would ask.
"Big miles" we'd all say with straight faces, "Really BIG miles....."
One Sunday AM as the group was riding along here comes Jimmy from the other direction looking utterly spent while doggedly turning the cranks over headed home "at last".
"Did Jimmy ride all day and all night?" the astonished newbie would ask.
"Big miles" we'd all say with straight faces, "Really BIG miles....."

Eventually someone would fess-up that although Jimmy did indeed put in some impressive miles he had a GF 20 or so miles up the road he visited on the weekends.

Tall Tales and insider jokes can take on a life of their own and become cycling's version of urban legends, if they are just barely plausible enough.
"Big miles, indeed."

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh Internat'l. '77 Trek TX900 FG. '90 Vitus 979. '10 Merckx EMX3. '13 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline  
Likes For Bandera:
Old 08-12-19, 10:46 AM
  #9  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 9,100
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1194 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 49 Posts
Big Miles, with mayo and nookie on the side please.
cute story.
djb is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 11:01 AM
  #10  
WGD
Member
Thread Starter
 
WGD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 28

Bikes: 1984 Miyata 1000, 1984 Univega Specialissima (frame), 1993 Miyata 1000LT, 1987 Raleigh Ventura, 1935 Golden Sunbeam, Early '50s Columbia Bomber

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Indexed integrated brake-shifters made DT & Barcon both obsolete for racing just as indexed DT did for friction shifting.
I am admittedly a bit of a Luddite (and certainly not a racer) but I have friction barcons on two of my bikes. My other main ride has DT friction shifters.
WGD is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 11:07 AM
  #11  
Bandera 
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,936
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 144 Times in 93 Posts
Originally Posted by WGD View Post
I am admittedly a bit of a Luddite (and certainly not a racer) but I have friction barcons on two of my bikes. My other main ride has DT friction shifters.
Not a true Luddite unless you ride your winter base miles on a fixed gear.......

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh Internat'l. '77 Trek TX900 FG. '90 Vitus 979. '10 Merckx EMX3. '13 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 11:18 AM
  #12  
WGD
Member
Thread Starter
 
WGD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 28

Bikes: 1984 Miyata 1000, 1984 Univega Specialissima (frame), 1993 Miyata 1000LT, 1987 Raleigh Ventura, 1935 Golden Sunbeam, Early '50s Columbia Bomber

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
In retrospect, I shouldnít be surprised to see barcons in a major race. They were certainly an innovation and most technological innovations in cycling have been driven by racing, especially in recent decades.
WGD is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 11:25 AM
  #13  
WGD
Member
Thread Starter
 
WGD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 28

Bikes: 1984 Miyata 1000, 1984 Univega Specialissima (frame), 1993 Miyata 1000LT, 1987 Raleigh Ventura, 1935 Golden Sunbeam, Early '50s Columbia Bomber

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
Not a true Luddite unless you ride your winter base miles on a fixed gear.......

-Bandera
Who uses gears? I manage winter riding much better on my velocipede.
WGD is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 11:30 AM
  #14  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 5,922

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1316 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 30 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by WGD View Post
I am admittedly a bit of a Luddite (and certainly not a racer) but I have friction barcons on two of my bikes. My other main ride has DT friction shifters.
I really do not like downtube friction shifters, but I have bar end shifters on my two derailleur touring bikes and on my folding bike. The rear bar end shifters are indexed, not the old friction. Nothing wrong with bar end shifters.

A friend of mine was getting his touring bike with brifters ready for his third cross continent (cross USA) tour when one of his brifters became dysfunctional. He asked me what bar end shifters were like, I let him ride one of my bikes for a 10 mile test ride. He installed bar end shifters for his trip. One of the group on that cross country ride had her rear brifter stop working, she had to finish the cross country trip with three gears. Fortunately, she had a triple crank so she had three gears instead of only one or two.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 01:29 PM
  #15  
veloz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 183
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I’ve always wondered about their history. The Suntours were popular enough by the mid 1970’s that I bought a pair. Installed them on my Motobecane Grand Touring around 1976. I surely learned about them through magazines. I don’t remember Shimano offering bar-ends at that time - only SunTour. Mine came with metal housing to reach the downtube bosses and had a very fine tooth ratcheting system. Loved them and have had a few other pair since including SIS MicroShift and Dura Ace. Currently running Dura Ace on my gravel/CX bike. I don’t like them on CX as they get sometimes get bumped on dismounts or flyovers. Hard to beat them for touring.
veloz is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 02:10 PM
  #16  
Bandera 
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,936
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 144 Times in 93 Posts
Originally Posted by veloz View Post
I don’t remember Shimano offering bar-ends at that time - only SunTour.
Although the ST ratcheting barcons were the most common in the '70's appearing on many Japanese machines and OEM as "Schwinn Approved" and "Raleigh" re-branded models the Shimano barcons became available at about the same time. The ST was favored for 'Cross racing as the ratchet mechanism held well in that jarring environment but the Shimano design with a balance spring much like what later appeared to make the Simplex "Retofriction" DT design, the best of the friction controls, were my favorite for road use. Smooth and very precise Shimano barcons were worth the expense and being uncommon added to that "trick set-up" that gives a well fitted out race bike a certain elegant yet purposeful cache'.
Shimano went on to produce excellent indexed barcons that are still used on dedicated Time Trial machines today.

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh Internat'l. '77 Trek TX900 FG. '90 Vitus 979. '10 Merckx EMX3. '13 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 04:27 PM
  #17  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 9,100
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1194 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 49 Posts
Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
.... and being uncommon added to that "trick set-up" that gives a well fitted out race bike a certain elegant yet purposeful cachť.
indeed, and these are exactly some of the reasons I like my Gevenalle's

djb is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 04:50 PM
  #18  
WGD
Member
Thread Starter
 
WGD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 28

Bikes: 1984 Miyata 1000, 1984 Univega Specialissima (frame), 1993 Miyata 1000LT, 1987 Raleigh Ventura, 1935 Golden Sunbeam, Early '50s Columbia Bomber

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I added a set of Shimano friction barcons to my ďTigerĒ 10-speed that I used to tour the UK in 1981. They were used when I got them and they worked like a dream. I still mourn their loss.
WGD is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 05:42 PM
  #19  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 5,922

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1316 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 30 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
...
Shimano went on to produce excellent indexed barcons that are still used on dedicated Time Trial machines today.
-Bandera
A friend of mine that has competed in ironman competitions saw one of my touring bikes one time and commented that he was unaware that you could put tri shifters on the ends of a handlebar like I had it set up. I asked what a tri shifter is, he pointed at my bar end shifters and said those are tri shifters. Different cycling backgrounds appear to have different lingo and if you buy a time trial bike for triathlons, I can see how they end up being called tri shifters by triathlon competitors.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 05:46 PM
  #20  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 5,922

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1316 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 30 Times in 26 Posts
I am successfully resisting the temptation to refer to my Rohloff shifter as a bar end shifter on my expedition bike.

Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 07:04 PM
  #21  
Eggman84
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 382

Bikes: 2014 Bruce Gordon Rock&Road, 1995 Santana Visa Tandem, 1990 Trek 520, 2012 Surly LHT

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Jan Heine over at Renee Herse Cycles (formerly compass Cycles) has answered just the this question. You will find your answer at https://janheine.wordpress.com/2018/...cling-history/
Eggman84 is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 07:29 PM
  #22  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 9,100
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1194 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 49 Posts
Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
A friend of mine that has competed in ironman competitions saw one of my touring bikes one time and commented that he was unaware that you could put tri shifters on the ends of a handlebar like I had it set up. I asked what a tri shifter is, he pointed at my bar end shifters and said those are tri shifters. Different cycling backgrounds appear to have different lingo and if you buy a time trial bike for triathlons, I can see how they end up being called tri shifters by triathlon competitors.
chuckle. Ive met a couple of ironmen and ladies, and holy kadoodles thats nuts what they do. Rather diff cycling take on stuff I find, in my miniscule number of folks Ive met...
djb is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 07:33 PM
  #23  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 9,100
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1194 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 49 Posts
Originally Posted by Eggman84 View Post
Jan Heine over at Renee Herse Cycles (formerly compass Cycles) has answered just the this question. You will find your answer at https://janheine.wordpress.com/2018/...cling-history/
its funny, but I always shifted only with my right hand for both dt levers, often both at the same time with diff fingers, but it would still seem to me to intuitivley want the front der to be a left side bar end, to separate the duties and free up the right hand for rear only sihfts.
djb is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 09:03 PM
  #24  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 5,922

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1316 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 30 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by djb View Post
its funny, but I always shifted only with my right hand for both dt levers, often both at the same time with diff fingers, but it would still seem to me to intuitivley want the front der to be a left side bar end, to separate the duties and free up the right hand for rear only sihfts.
When I used a Suntour high normal front derailleur where pushing both down tube levers forward put you into the highest gear, I usually used the right hand for both front and rear shifting. Cresting a hill top I would often reach down and push both levers forward simultaneously to go into my highest gear. But when my front derailleur was a conventional derailleur (pull the down tube shifter back for the highest gear), then I would usually use my left hand for the front and right hand for the rear.

And then there is my rando bike, a Campy brifter for the rear and as I mentioned above a downtube friction shifter for the front. The downtube shifter was intended to be temporary while I decided what to use permanently, but I built up that bike in 2016 and temporary is slowly becoming permanent. See photos. I usually use the left hand to shift the front derailleur. The downtube shifter is a vintage Huret that I picked up for $5 USD.





Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 08-13-19, 09:19 PM
  #25  
DropBarFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,867

Bikes: 2013 Surly Disc Trucker, 2004 Novara Randonee , old fixie , etc

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 14 Posts
Makes one wonder why more pros didn't use bar-end shifters back then. I guess the racers & mechanics didn't want to bother with installing/maintaining a part that didn't come with the stock groupset.
DropBarFan is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.