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Too Many Irresponsible Cagers

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Too Many Irresponsible Cagers

Old 08-15-19, 12:08 PM
  #76  
Hypno Toad
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Most people driving cars are good, but the small number of people that are distracted, aggressive, drunk, and/or dangerous ... those people moving at high speeds with tons of steel, those people cause a lot of damage and death. IMHO that's the issue here.
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Old 08-15-19, 12:28 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
The A&S regulars must wait their turn at lots of disproportionate rage, justification of prejudice, cynicism and plain old complaining, the General Cycling Discussion regulars are still gnawing vigorously on this bone.
I agree, it's as predictable as some sort of PBS nature documentary. The BF cycle of life continues ...

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Old 08-15-19, 07:59 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Lots of disproportionate rage, justification of prejudice, cynicism and plain old complaining in this thread.

It really would fit into A&S.


-Tim-
OK....Moved to A&S from General
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Old 08-16-19, 05:46 AM
  #79  
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Any thread title with the term 'cagers' belongs in A & S
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Old 08-16-19, 12:39 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
Any thread title with the term 'cagers' belongs in A & S
Cager - The Globetrotter's Biggest Nightmare | Washington Generals
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Old 08-16-19, 12:50 PM
  #81  
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In my town (in Southern Ohio) we have a ton of cyclists on the road and also have bike pathways. I ride the neighborhoods as much as possible because, despite having cyclists daily, people can't seem to pay attention or are just plain stupid.

I actually am a runner and riding as an adult is new to me. But even before I started riding I would escort cyclists on the road. We have several hilly blind curves on the route to a popular nature reserve and down to the river. I find myself yelling out of my windshield at people to treat cyclists the same as a vehicle on the road and basically observe fingernail-biting close calls daily.
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Old 08-16-19, 12:51 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
This is one of the most silly things I have ever read. Yes, some drivers are bad, but most are decent. The same can be said for people on motorcycles or bikes. There's nothing helpful, or beneficial to insulting different groups of people as a whole like you insist on doing. If drivers were half as bad as you make them out to be, no one would ever survive a year on a motorcycle.
Do you know what the safety and survival metrics are for motorcyclists? Motorcycling is flat out the most dangerous form of transportation that exists. Period. Look it up. Drivers are the major part of that.
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Old 08-16-19, 01:34 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Do you know what the safety and survival metrics are for motorcyclists? Motorcycling is flat out the most dangerous form of transportation that exists. Period. Look it up. Drivers are the major part of that.
Not sure what your point is here aside from a desire to state the obvious.
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Old 08-16-19, 11:34 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Not sure what your point is here aside from a desire to state the obvious.
Then why make me say it? Why are you defending motorists in a bicycle forum? The actual truth is, no, motorists are not mostly decent. Most are neither decent nor hostile. Decency is a bell curve with Mother Theresa at one end and Jeffery Dahmer at the other. The average cager is right in the middle. And that would be important if decency was the most important quality in a driver. Actually competence is. And, as with most human qualities, competence also is a bell curve. But the numbers don't lie. Cagers are responsible for just about all the fatalities and serious injuries that occur on our roads. They don't need defending until America's death and dismemberment statistics start to fall in line with other developed countries. Until then cagers they are.
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Old 08-17-19, 11:59 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Then why make me say it? Why are you defending motorists in a bicycle forum? The actual truth is, no, motorists are not mostly decent. Most are neither decent nor hostile. Decency is a bell curve with Mother Theresa at one end and Jeffery Dahmer at the other. The average cager is right in the middle. And that would be important if decency was the most important quality in a driver. Actually competence is. And, as with most human qualities, competence also is a bell curve. But the numbers don't lie. Cagers are responsible for just about all the fatalities and serious injuries that occur on our roads. They don't need defending until America's death and dismemberment statistics start to fall in line with other developed countries. Until then cagers they are.
I'm not defending motorists. I'm saying that referring to them, as a group, in derogatory terms is neither constructive nor mature. It shows an implicit bias that reduces the weight of any subsequent argument you make. In short: grow up!

P.S. based on what you say here, I'm not sure you know what the word "decent" means.
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Old 08-17-19, 05:49 PM
  #86  
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In case anyone was wondering, this thread answers the question "how many old men yelling get off my lawn can dance on the head of a pin?"
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Old 08-17-19, 11:58 PM
  #87  
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It does? What is the answer then?
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Old 08-18-19, 05:00 AM
  #88  
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Contrary to conventional thinking, when I am on my trike with two flags, cars give me a great deal of room. Most go clear into the other lane.

I and some other trike riders believe that drivers think our trikes are some kind of handicap device or wheel chair. They stay clear because they wouldnt want their pictures on the front page saying-----Ralph Jones hits handicap man!!!!!!!
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Old 08-18-19, 06:23 AM
  #89  
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Wonder of wonders, I actually had a p.u. truck driver break the monotonous stereo-type and stop at a MUP crosswalk when he really didn't have to. Gave him a friendly smile, verbal thanks, and a wave!

Wish he would infect the others....
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Old 08-18-19, 06:49 AM
  #90  
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Maybe he saw a cop, or thought you were one.
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Old 08-18-19, 07:24 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
Maybe he saw a cop, or thought you were one.
Nah , we both looked to be average Joes....

My best friend, and I, have the philosophical difference: He believes people are inherently selfish/evil; I believe they are inherently cooperative/good, but are easily susceptible to conditioning....
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Old 08-18-19, 12:17 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Digger Goreman View Post
Wonder of wonders, I actually had a p.u. truck driver break the monotonous stereo-type and stop at a MUP crosswalk when he really didn't have to. Gave him a friendly smile, verbal thanks, and a wave!

Wish he would infect the others....
+1

I had the same amazing experience on my last ride! Took me by surprise. I often ride a MUP trail that has 4 or 5 road crossings, all with crosswalk pavement markings and warning signs. For the most part, they are ignored by drivers. Yet I see many bikers that don't bother to slow down or even look before crossing - they just blow on through expecting traffic to stop. I assume that vehicles will not stop and act accordingly. There is little point in asserting your right-of-way vs. a 4000 lb vehicle. That's just nuts. Even a Smart For2 is bigger than my bike!

I like to think that I have an easy-going positive outlook on life and try to see the good in people until proven otherwise. BUT - when I get on a bike I morph, and assume that every driver, cyclist, jogger, dog-walker, etc. is a complete fool who could possibly do (and probably will do) something completely erratic, stupid, and dangerous to me at any moment. Some may call it paranoid or negative - I think of it as riding defensively - or just common sense. A cycling version of what is taught in the defensive driving classes.
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Old 08-19-19, 11:39 AM
  #93  
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I don't know if this will help anyone and, of course, you're on your own but over the last several years I have been using more of the road and by and large find that drivers give me a wider berth. Riding along the very edge of the road invites drivers to pass when there are oncoming cars. When they can see there is not enough room to stay in the lane they are less likely to pass closely. Weaving a little as they approach doesn't hurt either.

A bright flashing tail light is also a great help.

There are some good tips about this on the site of the League of American Bicyclists. I think I originally read an article about this on their site. The thinking was that in certain situations you must claim your space.

Last edited by Turner2; 08-19-19 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 08-19-19, 11:59 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Yes, that applies to everything including

stopping at stop signs instead of just slowing down and rolling through;

stopping at red lights to turn right instead of just slowing down and rolling through;

stopping for pedestrians to completely get off the cross walk instead of racing them through the intersection;

driving no faster than the maximum speed posted.

It goes on and on.

You can do the enforcement yourself. As many have posted in other threads either take the lane or carry a 3 ft pool noodle.
I have never personally seen anyone with a noodle
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Old 08-19-19, 12:37 PM
  #95  
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Passing laws to govern how people drive is a waste of time if the law enforcement community doesn't enforce it. Not supposed to use your phone whole driving too, and how many drivers do you see everyday doing stupid things on the road because they are using one hand to hold the phone. You've seen them, cruising along at 10 to 15 miles per hour under the speed limit, lagging back in traffic so they can coast and browse at the same time. Absolutely out of touch with the world around them, until they run into the guy in front of them.
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Old 08-19-19, 01:03 PM
  #96  
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I tend to agree that if law enforcement isn't proactive some drivers won't follow the 3' foot rule. I will say most drivers in northern California do follow it either knowingly or out of courtesy.

However if we really want to affect change we need to get the law changed to ad a presumption of negligence on the part of any vehicle operator involved in a collision with a pedestrian or bike rider. With such a presumption, the driver would have to prove the collision was not his or her fault to avoid liability. My guess is with that presumption you would get your 3 feet with or without law enforcement.
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Old 08-19-19, 01:06 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by mjd420nova View Post
Passing laws to govern how people drive is a waste of time if the law enforcement community doesn't enforce it. Not supposed to use your phone whole driving too, and how many drivers do you see everyday doing stupid things on the road because they are using one hand to hold the phone. You've seen them, cruising along at 10 to 15 miles per hour under the speed limit, lagging back in traffic so they can coast and browse at the same time. Absolutely out of touch with the world around them, until they run into the guy in front of them.
One of my fave pastimes, while waiting for a light, is counting the cell phone users in "hands free" Georgia.... Just this Sunday, soccer mom in SUV turns in front of me (fortunately I was expecting this) driving in one direction while prominently holding a phone in another direction to read on a sunny day. Driving and cells are totally incompatible systems.....
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Old 08-19-19, 03:07 PM
  #98  
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I really like the give 5 stay alive deal. Maybe I'm getting old, but 3 ft is not enough, especially on roads with speed limit over 45. Recently moved to NC via Texas/Nebraska. It's not a good situation here. Lots of 45+ back roads winding with hills, no shoulders. Every ride I have at least one idiot who will pass me on a curve without looking for oncoming traffic. Most of the time they give me 3 feet but cause the oncoming driver to go off the shoulder to avoid a head-on. I'm actually more concerned for the oncoming drivers.

Recently in my area they spent 4.2 million on a brand new stretch of road (10-15 miles) to put down an asphalt mix they say reduce hydroplaning. When asked how many accidents have been recorded on the stretch of road the answer was "none". Seems like 4.2 mil would go a long way to first, educate people to slow down when it rains and second, educate people to understand some basic safety concepts.

Like education to help people understand, perhaps slowing down and passing this cyclist will cost me 30 seconds of my life...or I could have a head on collision, hurt or kill someone, or even lose own my life. Other consequences include, prison for involuntary manslaughter, not to mention associated legal costs. I'm guessing these thoughts don't occur to the average red-neck with a rebel flag on the back of his truck.
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Old 08-19-19, 03:30 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
In Michigan the passing law that went into effect earlier this year is 3 feet. When passing a person on a bicycle, give them no less than 3 feet clearance. When it passed I scoffed at it and remarked to my wife, "So what? Have these nitwits in government nothing more productive to do? Do they think this will change anything?"

On a 60 mile ride Sunday, only a handful of vehicles provided me the courtesy of 3 feet. Most just buzzed me without concern. Several squeezed me by passing at the same time an oncoming vehicle was going by, which naturally prompts them a little closer to the right shoulder of the road, right where the bicycle and I are traveling.

The more I have to deal with people, the more I dislike them. Rude and irresponsible, and they really don't give a crap.
My experience in NC is that the majority of drivers provide a decent passing margin though I have had my share of buzz passers (typically small cars or larger pick-up trucks). What I see more of is unsafe passing while approaching a blind curve or hill top.
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Old 08-20-19, 06:54 PM
  #100  
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California has the same 3 foot rule. Most drivers in San Francisco pass by a lot more. If the lane is narrow take the lane and move over when possible. Ride as far to the right as is safe. That's all I know....Oh yes use very bright lights when you ride night or day.
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