New wheel irregularity
#1
Sr Member on Sr bikes
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New wheel irregularity
I recently ordered a new road bike wheel set (rim brakes) from Modern Bike. I think they were manufactured by Wheel Master/JBI Bike. When the wheels arrived, neither wheel had a rim strip covering the nipple holes. I thought that was odd. Every wheel I’ve ever purchased new over the decades had them. And, once I got them on the bike I had purchased them for, I noticed they were slightly out of true. I know I could have returned them. It was a minor deviation, and instead of going through the hassle of returning them, and then waiting on the replacements…I put them on my truing stand and made the quick and simple corrections. Like I said…it wasn’t much, but just more than I’d expect from a professional wheel builder. The wheels seemed OK in all other aspects. But I’m just wondering if maybe a QA step was missed where the person doing the final precise truing would have also installed the strips.
Dan
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#2
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Objection! Conjecture!
Last wheelset I bought from Wheelbuilder didn't have a rim strip on. The wheels were true but the tension differences in the spokes exceeded my typical 10% variation, easily adjusted.
Last wheelset I bought from Wheelbuilder didn't have a rim strip on. The wheels were true but the tension differences in the spokes exceeded my typical 10% variation, easily adjusted.
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I've bought a couple or three rim brake-type wheelsets over the years. None came with rim strips. I didn't expect them to.
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Generally the only wheels that are "factory" supplied with rim strips tend to be fairly high end ones, often what I call "component wheels". What I call "repair wheels" nearly never do.
Also every wheel I sell/install gets a trueness check and tweak as needed. The higher end wheels rarely need much prep work but repair grade ones nearly always need more before they are ready for sale. Bu, of course, this is one more reason to be able to touch and hold the product before exchanging money. Andy (whose shop sells Wheelmaster wheels from JBI and find they are usually mid grade at best)
Also every wheel I sell/install gets a trueness check and tweak as needed. The higher end wheels rarely need much prep work but repair grade ones nearly always need more before they are ready for sale. Bu, of course, this is one more reason to be able to touch and hold the product before exchanging money. Andy (whose shop sells Wheelmaster wheels from JBI and find they are usually mid grade at best)
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#5
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Which wheels?
How much?
Probably 10-12 years ago, I bought a $30-35 front wheel (559mm)
No rim strip and 1/2 the spokes were properly tensioned and 1/2 were about 50%.
Somewhat noticeable flat spot at the rim joint, but that was expected.
Spokes should have been the next size longer.
The wheel "trued/tensioned up" just fine.
I did notice when running my caliper around the circumference, that the "width" varied about .75mm in a rather inconsistent manner. one side would be "out" and then the other.
It was a case where I needed a wheel for a flip bike and I couldn't buy the individual parts for the price.
It served the purpose intended.
How much?
Probably 10-12 years ago, I bought a $30-35 front wheel (559mm)
No rim strip and 1/2 the spokes were properly tensioned and 1/2 were about 50%.
Somewhat noticeable flat spot at the rim joint, but that was expected.
Spokes should have been the next size longer.
The wheel "trued/tensioned up" just fine.
I did notice when running my caliper around the circumference, that the "width" varied about .75mm in a rather inconsistent manner. one side would be "out" and then the other.
It was a case where I needed a wheel for a flip bike and I couldn't buy the individual parts for the price.
It served the purpose intended.
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Rim straps technically aren't part of a wheel. As Andrew pointed out, they're a lagniappe included with many higher wheels.
It's sort of like when you pick up a new car at the dealership. They don't have to, but many will deliver it with a full tank, and the Lexus dealership is more likely to than the Yugo deslership.
It's sort of like when you pick up a new car at the dealership. They don't have to, but many will deliver it with a full tank, and the Lexus dealership is more likely to than the Yugo deslership.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#7
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Rim straps technically aren't part of a wheel. As Andrew pointed out, they're a lagniappe included with many higher wheels.
It's sort of like when you pick up a new car at the dealership. They don't have to, but many will deliver it with a full tank, and the Lexus dealership is more likely to than the Yugo deslership.
It's sort of like when you pick up a new car at the dealership. They don't have to, but many will deliver it with a full tank, and the Lexus dealership is more likely to than the Yugo deslership.
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QA/QC is not performed on every part manufactured...it starts with a percentage of a run and if the tested/inspected...there is a difference...part/parts pass the lot is moved on. If fail then more are tested/inspected perhaps to the point of 'failing' the entire lot which then goes to a supervisor/manager and/or engineer to decide the lots fate. Usually all parts are tested/inspected and the 'passed' parts move on while the 'failed' parts to back for either repair or scrapping.
The bike shop, where I work, inspects all wheels we get and generally they are fine.
The bike shop, where I work, inspects all wheels we get and generally they are fine.
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Machine-built wheels like those are hit or miss. Some are near perfect while others like yours need "touching up".
Wheelmaster wheels are generally pretty good but as you've learned, it's always a good idea to check. Here's a video on the difference between hand-built and machine-built wheels. As he says, the tolerances for machine-built wheels isn't as tight as it can be when you build it by hand. But of course the difference is reflected in the price.
Since it's a good idea to check even handbuilt wheels after an initial break-in period anyway, it's not that big a deal. Think of the money you saved while you're tweaking them.
Wheelmaster wheels are generally pretty good but as you've learned, it's always a good idea to check. Here's a video on the difference between hand-built and machine-built wheels. As he says, the tolerances for machine-built wheels isn't as tight as it can be when you build it by hand. But of course the difference is reflected in the price.
Since it's a good idea to check even handbuilt wheels after an initial break-in period anyway, it's not that big a deal. Think of the money you saved while you're tweaking them.
#12
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It's par to final check production wheels. However there's a choice.
One may depend on process control and statistical QC to keep wheels within the intended tolerance. This risks outliers that would fail if inspected, but is still a valid cost effective approach.
Or, one may design the system around a 100% final inspection and retouch.
With things like bike wheels the decision may depend on who is downstream. Bike companies, and production wheel builders will opt for statistical QC, knowing there's a dealer who can be the b final check and retuned if necessary.
OTOH producers of high end, especially low spoke count wheels, may prefer that nobody retouches their products will opt for the second approach.
Lastly, we also need to consider the possibility of damage in transit, especially if shipped in non bulletproof boxes. For example, wheels may initially be shipped 5 in a box, then repacked individually by an internet seller. That's 2 trips, one under less than ideal conditions.
One may depend on process control and statistical QC to keep wheels within the intended tolerance. This risks outliers that would fail if inspected, but is still a valid cost effective approach.
Or, one may design the system around a 100% final inspection and retouch.
With things like bike wheels the decision may depend on who is downstream. Bike companies, and production wheel builders will opt for statistical QC, knowing there's a dealer who can be the b final check and retuned if necessary.
OTOH producers of high end, especially low spoke count wheels, may prefer that nobody retouches their products will opt for the second approach.
Lastly, we also need to consider the possibility of damage in transit, especially if shipped in non bulletproof boxes. For example, wheels may initially be shipped 5 in a box, then repacked individually by an internet seller. That's 2 trips, one under less than ideal conditions.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
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