SurferRosa

I've found vintage muscle exercises can really help in the use of vintage side-pulls.



You really have to use a lot of force with my Triomphe brakeset. But, as Virginia Slim would say, "I'm worth it."

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ofajen

Nitto makes a very nice long version of their threadless adapter that extends up to about 150mm above the insertion point. I’ve been using one on my too-small 22” vintage MTB, but it would work great on a road bike, too.

Otto

repechage

The Athena calipers are good for single pivot BUT both shown are not correct for the frame and fork - get Tekro with more capacity.

the front pads are going to wear and hit the tire. The rear are in the edge too.
the Campagnolo skeleton calipers will probably not have enough capacity as well.

billytwosheds 

First, I'm not sure those are Athena brakes. They're beautiful monoplaners, and more likely Chorus based on the white brake pad wing casings and adjuster o-rings. The wings seemed to have lost their plastic casings in the later pics?

Mentioning the Athena/Chorus possible confusion because they operate at a significantly different price point on the bay.

Second, I'm going to begin my own C Record (mixed) build this week, and I have the Chorus monoplaners like you do, with orange Koolstops. I have a pair of early Chorus dual pivot calipers on standby, but will give the monoplaners a chance first.

I'd see if the cabling and housing are nice and direct, not squishy or laggy.

Then move to the dual pivot front brake if you're still not confident in them. GL

RiddleOfSteel

Allow another entry into the YES column. I've used a number of single pivot calipers, and they are quite lovely! Modulation from the hoods and the drops is also very nice. I have no problem modulating dual pivot calipers. I'm feel bad that some people do have trouble with them as I have yet to experience it, but we are dealing with stated personal realities.

I find a well setup canti brake (er...Tektro CR720s, particularly with Tektro R200 levers) to be easy to operate and extremely powerful--as good as any Dura-Ace dual pivot (7800, the gold standard before everything became super space age black). I've had a professionally set up pair of hydraulic, Ultegra-level brifters and calipers on a modern Cannondale and....they stopped the same. Maybe with less finger effort. But were a lot more finicky when it came to noise and pad contamination.

Aero levers, new and quality (lubricated) cables + housings, and Kool Stop pads do a lot to bridge the gap, but physics and leverage being what they are, have the final say.

I think you will see an appreciable improvement with dual pivot Campagnolo levers. I don't know if the Super Record stuff chased grams so hard that it gave up strength (certainly the zero gravity stuff did, IIRC), but if they did, going down to Chorus or similar may be a wiser move. In my personal experience with Monoplanars, they were not very strong, even for single pivots. May your search be fruitful and your braking soon much improved!!

Salamandrine 

I still like Campagnolo Record single pivot brakes too. They have several advantages over modern brakes. They are IME still the brakes with perhaps the best fine control. However, they do have to be used from the drops, at least for going fast. For those that have grown up with STI and never leave the hoods, they are a poor choice. IMHO, even with STI and modern dual pivots, descending in the drops is safer and better, but it is hard to convince people of that nowadays.

Good point. I didn't notice that but at least the front calipers look like they don't have enough reach. It might be that a short reach brake with greater range will still work. Some of the aero era brakes had very limited reach, less than the nominal 39-49 short reach is supposed to have.

My only bike with brifters and dual pivots currently has TRP RG957 brake calipers. Those would work here, being 47-57. They are pretty good. It's the fancy/premium brand of Tektro. Modulate OK for a dual pivot. Look nicer than Shimano. They incorrectly call them "long reach". The QR is useless.

tkamd73 

Yes, especially when trying to brake from the hoods. However, if you take some of the spring tension out of your single pivots they will be almost as good, from the hoods.
Tim

Dfrost 

Dual pivots make a major improvement in braking, especially from the hoods.

You’ve already made the other worthwhile changes: aero levers, great pads (although not sure if the Kool Stop orange = Kool Stop salmon, which are fabulous), good housing. You definitely need to find and fix the apparent slipping cable. Nothing you can do about the pad height when correct, which is a function of rim size and brake mounting locations. Just be sure that it can’t hit the tire, which looks like a risk in front. Longer reach caliper is probably needed.

You’ve received lots of worthwhile advice about other details, but switching to DP’s will make the change you want. Be careful about braking too hard when you first get them! I was inadvertently locking up the rear wheel when I first tried DP’s after decades of single pivot usage.

My 1979 Miyata 912 now has a brazed-post Dia Compe centerpull with KS salmon pads in modern holders in front, Shimano medium cage dual pivot in back with same pads and holders. Braking is excellent at both ends, no noticeable difference in lever pull or feel. Levers are Campy 8-speed Ergo. (Front brake change accommodated a custom rando bag rack.)

FWIW, the Marinoni switches back and forth between Dura-Ace short reach dual pivots for 700C wheels, and Tektro long reach dual pivots when it’s In 650B configuration. All with KS salmons. The DA are really, really nice brakes. But the braking capability is not actually any different since the Tektro have different lever arm lengths to compensate. With both bikes, any of their current brake setups, hood braking is excellent, even on the 10%+ grades around here. Braking from the drops is a one finger affair.

If you choose eventually to use fatter tires on your Torpado that seems to have clearance for them, Shimano and Tektro DP calipers have the advantage of caliper-mounted QR. Combining the Campy lever QR with the caliper QR makes it much easier to insert/remove those nice riding tires. My 32-33mm wide tires on 23mm rims easily pass through the short reach DA.

scarlson 

Scott Superbrakes will heal the dual/single pivot schism! These have something for everybody!
These bad boys are technically a single pivot, with the power of a dual pivot! Fully adjustable pad angles! Cooling fins! Drillium! Made in America! Early CNC-era optimism/nostalgia for a simpler time when the future was thought to be good

masi61

I notice in your photos that your Athena brakes have little bits of rust on the brake bolts. This makes me wonder if the calipers might benefit from being completely disassembled, cleaned, lubed properly and reassembled.

A few years back I took a set of Dura Ace 1st gen dual pivots (7403’s) completely apart & rebuilt them. Man, are these things well engineered! They are heavy by modern standards but the pivot bushing with all the tiny ball bearings in a nylon holder is typical of the best of what (in my opinion FWIW -haha) Shimano have always done well. When torn down, you might be surprised how much little bits of corrosion, dirt and nooks and crannies that need some lube but don’t have any. Also, just working the threads and locknuts with the proper wrenches will give you increased confidence in their proper operation. I use a Pedro’s micro grease gun with a tube of Rock-N-Roll Super Web grease on all threads, bushings and bearings. The bearings/bushings on the pivot bolt(s) when given a small amount of good grease like this let’s you dial out any and all slop permitting you to confidently snug the nut and locknut in a way that permits silky operation that is strong.

The Kool Stop pads always get mentioned here but I’m not a fan. They are fine I guess but that trailing edge wing make them difficult to set up. I have learned that putting a business card under the trailing edge of the partially loosened pad holders while squeezing the levers for their final rim sidewall positioning helps give the right amount of toe in. It goes without saying that there are some machined aluminum rim sidewall braking surfaces that are just better than non-machined ones or ones with bumpy seams or inconsistent dark anodizing.

SJX426 

billytwosheds & tNuvolari The brakes pictured are not Monoplanar but standard single pivot brakes with styling like the Monoplanars. Common mistake.
P1010556, on Flickr

Having pointed this out multiple times I feel like the Monoplanar police!

I recently replaced the Campagnolo pads on these with Koolstops. Huge difference with braking from the hoods, much less effort. Not equivalent to the dual pivots on the De Rosa, which will launch you.
P1030213

Rear is single pivot.
P1030204, on Flickr

sced

Your bike will stop better if you drop any weight that you might want to lose. I have the same 1st gen Athena brakes on my Viner and find them satisfactory.

microcord

For non-trivial rides (50 km plus, 1000m plus of climbing), I ride either of two bikes. Each has Shimano caliper brakes. As long as the road surface isn't slushy, both bikes stop fine. (On long, steep descents, my hands start to ache, and I start to wish that I had hydraulic disc brakes. But then there's so much talk among my friends about pad wear, squeaking, and other annoyances with disc brakes that I soon change my mind.)

One bike has RX100 caliper brakes. I don't know how old they are, but LBS Man was most interested, saying that they might belong to Shimano's first generation of dual-pivot brakes. The other has 105 caliper brakes, of whatever model was on the market a couple of years ago.

The 105 brakes look beefier. Are they beefier, or are they just designed to look beefier? All I know is, I don't notice the difference between braking on the one bike and braking on the other.

Somebody thinking of switching to dual-pivot brakes might look out for old and unglamorous models.

AJI125 

I was going to look into this but the detective already collected the evidence! I think I saw you post on the Sales forum about this in the past. I was careful to buy the real deal monoplanars for my next build (indeterminable time in the future... ). Hoping I got it right of course. I almost got duped a couple times into buying the lookalikes (usually Athena, although later Athenas may have actually become the monoplanar design if I remember my C-Record Cantos well enough).

Wileyone 

I had a set of these on my Dekerf. I replaced them with a set of Record Ti. series dual pulls. The dual pulls are much better in feel and stopping power and are a full 55 grams lighter for the pair.

billytwosheds 

Edit: I'm a dummy and looked look closely at the defining feature. Doh!

How sure are we that the OPs brakes are not monoplaners? It was my understanding that the the intersection arms were the distinguishing factor.

There were Campy brakes styled with the same thick arms later on, like the D500/Athena, where the arms did not intersect. Like in this pic from velobase:


Obviously not intersecting arms, not monoplaner. But also not the brakes the OP has.

So what makes a monoplaner...a monoplaner then? Like, what do you mean by the styling?

mechanicmatt

This is the correct answer to the original question. Dual pivot levers from any brand with Kool Stop pads are noticeably better.

That said those are some of the most beautiful brake calipers you can have on a bike. They look great on show bikes. They do work better if you break from the drops and put Kool Stop pads on them all the way around, you may want to try that first.

Last ride 76 

I think they are D500's just slightly different....

Billy, the OP's are a later version of the ones I offered you a few weeks ago D500s. I think the difference is mostly the rounded edges of the pads on the OPs. The thing that defines them as "not monoplaner" is that the arms bypass each other...(I think) Same basic concept as SR, and Victories, etc. rather than one arm splitting, or "passing through" the other. The Athena "Monoplaners" have that "hinged" look. Apparently made just 1995. I din't even know they made them at all.

I thought they went from D500 straight to dual pivot...

Cheers, Eric


The additional leverage of the dual pivots, certainly provides the ability to brake hard more easily from the hoods, but once one can lock the wheels, it's all about modulation. Brifter brake levers feel less secure to me than good quality single purpose levers. Using brifters (rarely), I appreciate the minimal force double pivots require. But when using regular levers, I prefer single pivot. Didn't Campy start making mixed pairs, one double, one single? IDK which is which, front and rear. Now road discs.... Cha...ching.

billytwosheds 

Toadally, I was way off. I saw the white plastic clips and adjusters and overlooked the defining feature. Blast. Thanks for being cool about it, Eric!

ctmullins 

Just dropped in to say, it’s ridiculous how gorgeous those Monoplanars are! *drool*

SJX426 

The Monoplanars shown above are Chorus. There were Athena, Mirage, Veloce and Euclid versions. The early versions of the Chorus were C500''s with the follow on BR-02CH. If the brake calipers are compared, there are subtle differences. These were picked up at a very reasonable price but did not include the adjusters. Had to pay a premium for those out of Europe.

P1010558, on Flickr

The sweep of the curve almost lines up with the fork crown.
P1010581, on Flickr

The only way I can understand the term "Monoplanar" is to consider the brake pad center location relative to the pivot. Both sides are symmetrical, maybe even in the same plane as the center of the pivot. Typical side pulls have to compensate for the pivot off-set in order to get both pads aligned. In fact, if you look at the really old sidepulls of lower end bikes, the pads are off-set from each other.

billytwosheds 

I followed your thread about finding them without adjusters, which led to a list of monoplaners by year and level IIRC.

These are the ones I have lined up, which I think are Chorus. The sweep down the shoulder on mine is smooth, without the hard ridge.

SJX426 

billytwosheds Check out VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo BR-02CH, Chorus Monoplaner. One of the entries states that yours may be the later ones with the plastic guides.
"The brakes pictured are actually the earlier version (1987 -89) C051 / C052 with white O-rings for the cable adjusters, less "beefy" brake arms (compared to BR-02CH) at the bottom where the brake shoes are attached and brake shoes with plastic covers."

tNuvolari

No, mine are NOT monoplanars. They are Athena D500's as already stated. That was another question I had: Do the monoplanars work better and have more strength? Also, another piece of info that I just learned while surveying Ebay brakes is that Campy used the same design of the Athena D500's for later Xenon brakes in some pretty cool grey finishes.

Also, thanks to everyone for all the great advice. This thread has really brought a lot of viewpoints; apparently everyone loves brakes!

So, a couple of updates: after settling the cable stretch problem my brakes do seem a slightly better. I still want more though. And I ride strictly in LA city right now and I'm new to riding again so not quite in shape yet but I love to ride fast. I can't maintain the speed I would like yet but I'm working on it. But I try to ride as close to 20mph as possible or over if going downhill. Normally I range between 12 to 28mph with most time spent around 14 to 20. (My normal ride to the ocean only has about 400ft of elevation change over 15-20 miles so not really any hills.) I mainly want the brakes for traffic and last second traffic signal changes. If I were descending a big hill at 30+ I'd definitely go to the drops. I'm not unable to ride the drops but in traffic and lots of stops, it's just not comfortable or practical.

I'll probably try out a cheapo front dual pivot. The pad design does look better on newer calipers and when I upgraded to the Kool Stops, I learned that pad attaching screws changed sizing when they went to the orbital adjustment feature which allows easy toe adjustment so I couldn't upgrade to a newer pad carrier. And my calipers don't really have any toe adjustment built in and they are too thick/stiff to bend the caliper for this. I'm not sure how Campy expected the toe to be adjusted.

Oh, and I readjusted my front pad as one edge was slightly off the rim.

P!N20

They didn't. I was having major issues with brake squeal with my Monoplaners, the solution was to cut a taper in the brake pads. Not only did it stop the squeal, the braking performance improved out of sight. I've still got to do the rear, but they're not as bad.