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Kosher for shop to put old tube in new tire?

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Kosher for shop to put old tube in new tire?

Old 02-20-20, 03:38 PM
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banerjek
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Kosher for shop to put old tube in new tire?

This morning, I stopped to help an older woman with a flat. The bike had just been in the shop, was in excellent mechanical condition, and everything down to the chain was clean enough to eat off of. Among other things, it had new tires and wheels.

However, when I removed her tire, the tube was worn -- as in so worn that it failed on its own without the help of debris, snakebites, bad rim tape, etc. Especially given that her tires were the Schwalbe Marathon Plus, I couldn't imagine why they'd mount an old tube. For someone who does their own work and wants to save a few bucks, sure, but not for someone not equipped to fix their own flats (on an aside note, why is it that few urban riders -- at least here in PDX -- are capable of the most common and basic repairs).

Or is this an accepted practice?
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Old 02-20-20, 03:52 PM
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Was it in the shop for a flat? I routinely re use tubes with new tires or wheels when swapping. Where did the tube fail? If say I brought my bike into a shop for new tires and paid for install I wouldn't expect them to put in new tubes unless I asked for them
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Old 02-20-20, 03:55 PM
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I wouldn't expect any repair/service center (bike, auto, etc..) to take it upon themselves to replace old parts with new parts during the repair, unless it was discussed up front that the repairman could make on-the-fly decisions without my consent for the extra cost. I think that's standard practice in just about every repair profession in general, it might even be the law.

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Old 02-20-20, 03:56 PM
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No idea what you mean by a "worn tube."
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Old 02-20-20, 04:48 PM
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Yes, if the mechanic was circumcised. Next question...?
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Old 02-20-20, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Was it in the shop for a flat? I routinely re use tubes with new tires or wheels when swapping. Where did the tube fail? If say I brought my bike into a shop for new tires and paid for install I wouldn't expect them to put in new tubes unless I asked for them
From what I can tell, it was in the shop for a tuneup, i.e routine maintenance.

All visible stuff was in excellent condition. The tube was definitely old -- the material had visibly deteriorated and failed near the stem on the inside.

I wouldn't expect a naive user to know what does and does not need to be replaced - seems like replacement of tubes would be recommended along with the tires even if it's not required. I wouldn't use a tube myself that looked that degraded for the simple reason I'd expect to be at the side of the road soon enough.

This kind of stuff reminds me why I do my own work.
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Old 02-20-20, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
... I couldn't imagine why they'd mount an old tube.
Do you have any evidence to refute the theory that the shop offered to replace the tube and the woman refused?

This isn't even the usual one-sided story of how a shop messed up without hearing the shop's side of things. This is a no-sided story by someone not involved who has no idea what transpired and created a story out of whole cloth.
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Old 02-20-20, 07:34 PM
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As a general rule we don't proactively replace tubes. Their function is to hold air. If they are holding air...then we don't replace them. Sometimes customers will ask for them to be replace proactively. If the tube looks really beat then I will replace it but...sometimes you can't tell.

So....
No - we don't always put a new tube on when replacing a worn tire.
and...
I would be mad if anyone who sold the tire in my shop didn't also suggest that they should throw in a new tube to help possibly offset future issues.

Honestly I say, "Tube is holding air. A new one is $x. Would you like for me to re-use the existing one or put a new one in when I change the tire?" Customers usually decide to keep the one that is holding air.

Also - you'd be amazed at how much of the general public is absolutely confounded by the profoundly simple inner tube and tire system we use on bikes. For many of them I might as well be asking them if they want me to mess with the timing on their car while I'm plugging in to diagnose engine issues. (Of which I obviously do neither).
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Old 02-21-20, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Do you have any evidence to refute the theory that the shop offered to replace the tube and the woman refused?

This isn't even the usual one-sided story of how a shop messed up without hearing the shop's side of things. This is a no-sided story by someone not involved who has no idea what transpired and created a story out of whole cloth.
Based on the many details she did give me, I'm certain no mention was made of it.

The tube was bad. I can recognize stuff in sorry shape. I don't maintain stuff I don't have to -- by coincidence I literally wore my brakes to the rim tonight and stopped to replace the front pads on my way home. Last week, my FD cable failed because I tried to squeeze too much life out of it. There are other issues I choose to ride with that I would never recommend to someone who didn't know what they were doing.

I know what I saw, but despite frequenting god know how many bike shops over more than 40 years, I've never had one mount a tire for me. Btw, she headed for the shop after I got her rolling to show them the tube and ask questions.

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Old 02-21-20, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Also - you'd be amazed at how much of the general public is absolutely confounded by the profoundly simple inner tube and tire system we use on bikes.
Sadly, I wouldn't. A total lack of the most basic knowledge seems to predominate out here. I know people who will leave a bike overnight at a shop to get a flat fixed

Seems like a major disincentive to cycle. I doubt I'd ride if every garden variety problem was a major hassle.

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Old 02-21-20, 09:19 AM
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I think a key point is that both the wheels and tires had been replaced. Not changing the tubes smacks of a short-cut. In the past, doing my own wrenching, I wouldn't have been concerned. But I've learned the hard way from flats due to dry rotting around the stem joint, tubes don't have an infinite service life. Last time it happened to me, it was a front wheel blow-out on a fixed gear at 18 mph- that sure got my attention!
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Old 02-21-20, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
This morning, I stopped to help an older woman with a flat. The bike had just been in the shop, was in excellent mechanical condition, and everything down to the chain was clean enough to eat off of. Among other things, it had new tires and wheels.

However, when I removed her tire, the tube was worn -- as in so worn that it failed on its own without the help of debris, snakebites, bad rim tape, etc. Especially given that her tires were the Schwalbe Marathon Plus, I couldn't imagine why they'd mount an old tube. For someone who does their own work and wants to save a few bucks, sure, but not for someone not equipped to fix their own flats (on an aside note, why is it that few urban riders -- at least here in PDX -- are capable of the most common and basic repairs).

Or is this an accepted practice?
Question is: Who made the decision? If the customer did not want to replace his/her tube, then the blame is on her.

Most of the time, people try to save a few bucks here and there. Wouldn't be surprised to hear that she was the one who told them to re-use the previous tube.

Last edited by eduskator; 02-21-20 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 02-21-20, 09:52 AM
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The excellent mechanical condition might suggest this bike doesn't get much use. A lot of these bike owners don't think they need to check the pressure in their tires after the bike sat for a month unused. Not saying that's your case, but you haven't given evidence it's not.

Who saw the tube when it was put in? Do we know that the shop did anything but put air in the tube and never removed the tire? There are a lot of people that can't put air in tires themselves and ride with almost flat tires. That'll wear a tube out quick.

If I change a tire, I will reuse the tube.
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Old 02-21-20, 10:02 AM
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You said the bike was in the shop for routine maintenance. Does routine maintenance include taking the tires off and replacing tubes? Routine maintenance to me means checking the drivetrain, cables, chain lube, tire pressure, etc... Is it possible that the bike came with an old tube from the factory? What kind of bike was it?
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Old 02-21-20, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
You said the bike was in the shop for routine maintenance. Does routine maintenance include taking the tires off and replacing tubes? Routine maintenance to me means checking the drivetrain, cables, chain lube, tire pressure, etc... Is it possible that the bike came with an old tube from the factory? What kind of bike was it?
Yep - and customers need to degrease & clean them before bringing over the bike for maintenance. It is not included in basic maintenances. Most people don't know that.
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Old 02-21-20, 10:19 AM
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Lbs

Thoughts on taking a bike in for a full strip and clean as well as buying 2 new GP5000 tires, coming back a week later to pick up and there are tubeless tires on the bike. Shop is told I didnít want tubeless (also told them this on drop-off) and Iasked them to replace with correct tire. They said they didnít have any so they set the bike up tubeless. Fine, Iíll deal. Take the tire off to put my trainer tire on and thereís a tube inside...

this is is my 4th bike from that shop, their level of service has gone way downhill (crank also came loose after 150 miles post tear down) and rather than complain, Iíll just find a new shop.

Iíve always been an advocate of the LBS, but this kind of stuff makes me think Iíd be better off with Canyon and velofix for service.
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Old 02-21-20, 10:44 AM
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[
Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
Yep - and customers need to degrease & clean them before bringing over the bike for maintenance. It is not included in basic maintenances. Most people don't know that.
I'd be happy if people would simply spray down their bike with a garden hose before bringing it in,
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Old 02-21-20, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by phrantic09 View Post
Thoughts on taking a bike in for a full strip and clean as well as buying 2 new GP5000 tires, coming back a week later to pick up and there are tubeless tires on the bike. Shop is told I didnít want tubeless (also told them this on drop-off) and Iasked them to replace with correct tire. They said they didnít have any so they set the bike up tubeless. Fine, Iíll deal. Take the tire off to put my trainer tire on and thereís a tube inside...

this is is my 4th bike from that shop, their level of service has gone way downhill (crank also came loose after 150 miles post tear down) and rather than complain, Iíll just find a new shop.

Iíve always been an advocate of the LBS, but this kind of stuff makes me think Iíd be better off with Canyon and velofix for service.
Not clear on what you are describing. You paid for two GP5000 (which are clincher tires) and told the shop you did not want tubeless (you can't use GP5000 as tubeless). You say the shop set you up for tubeless, but when you took the tire off to put on a trainer tire there was a tube in there.

Did the shop put GP5000TLs (tubeless version) and put tubes in there? If so then you came out ahead. It gives you the flexibility to run tubes or go tubeless.
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Old 02-21-20, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
[
I'd be happy if people would simply spray down their bike with a garden hose before bringing it in,
Normal people will never understand our pain.
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Old 02-21-20, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
Not clear on what you are describing. You paid for two GP5000 (which are clincher tires) and told the shop you did not want tubeless (you can't use GP5000 as tubeless). You say the shop set you up for tubeless, but when you took the tire off to put on a trainer tire there was a tube in there.

Did the shop put GP5000TLs (tubeless version) and put tubes in there? If so then you came out ahead. It gives you the flexibility to run tubes or go tubeless.

except i ultimately paid more for the tubeless version when I wanted the regular clincher. I donít think I made out, I wasnít looking for the flexibility to run either way, the TL version is already heavier and especially so when adding a tube. I know itís not a huge difference, but regardless there is one.

The issue for me is more the lack of transparency and lying about the actual work done. A phone call to say ďweíre out of the clincher, what do you want to do?Ē Seems more reasonable than putting a more expensive tire on, then being misleading about setting it up tubeless (the rims donít need tape, just the valves) and talking about when Iíd need to add sealant, then buying an extra bottle of it when the whole time thereís a tube in the tire.

It seems underhanded and lazy, the guy lied to me so I wouldnít make him take it off and with the other issues on the last service, Iím put off going back there.

i realize itís just a tire, but itís the whole point... what happens when itís not just a tire?
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Old 02-21-20, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
[
I'd be happy if people would simply spray down their bike with a garden hose before bringing it in,
I do that unless I am willing to pay the shop for a good cleaning.

Back in 2016 I got poured on while riding an unpaved road on the penultimate day a tour in Montana. Bike got filthy. Camped that night in the woods with no way to clean it. Had to drop it off at REI the next day for them to pack it for shipping. I would have felt way to guilty dropping it off as messed up as it was so I rode around Missoula until I found a self-serve car wash with a power washer.
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Old 02-21-20, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Normal people will never understand our pain.
I have been guilty in the past. In the early 90s I did a two-day charity event through a lot of Delaware farmland. The roads were wet early on the second day, but then the sun came out it got crispy critter hot. A couple of days later I took the bike into the shop where I had bought it for, among other things, a good cleaning. When I picked it up on Friday the mechanic who had built up the bike for me told me how disgusting a job it was because he had to pick dried up earthworms off the frame.
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Old 02-21-20, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
I have been guilty in the past. In the early 90s I did a two-day charity event through a lot of Delaware farmland. The roads were wet early on the second day, but then the sun came out it got crispy critter hot. A couple of days later I took the bike into the shop where I had bought it for, among other things, a good cleaning. When I picked it up on Friday the mechanic who had built up the bike for me told me how disgusting a job it was because he had to pick dried up earthworms off the frame.
During cross season I get a steady stream of mud covered and dried up and rusted high performance bikes or wheels needing new tubulars glued.
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Old 02-21-20, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Normal people will never understand our pain.
I find it funny how people are surprised when they're treated differently after they make themselves a PITA to help.

Frustrating or wasting the time of people whose help you want strikes me a bad plan. I do what I can to make the process as easy as possible. Curiously, I seem to be especially lucky when it comes to getting great service.
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Old 02-21-20, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
I find it funny how people are surprised when they're treated differently after they make themselves a PITA to help.

Frustrating or wasting the time of people whose help you want strikes me a bad plan. I do what I can to make the process as easy as possible. Curiously, I seem to be especially lucky when it comes to getting great service.
Most of the time, it's because they are ignorant (in a literal sense). A good bicycle shop employee / mechanic should explain them everything down to the details. After that, if they are still going it, it means they are ignorant (in a figurative sense).
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