1987cp

After crumpling my much-liked 1985 Raleigh Alyeska frame in a freak accident (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...a-alyeska.html), I'm thinking about a replacement frame (or possibly more) of similar function, namely, something sturdy and comfortable that I can zip around town on with racks loaded as heavy as I dare with shopping or other erranding. I did learn from my experience in that it was a rack that tried to murder me on the Raleigh, but that's unlikely to stop me bolting stuff to my bike altogether. :-D Maybe some blue Loctite in critical areas? Hehehe.

List of old parts I'd prefer to reuse includes Nitto Albatross bars on a Technomic Deluxe stem with Suntour power ratchets on barend pods, a cheap Nashbar springy touring saddle that I can't fit onto my 25" Raleigh Grand Prix frame because I'm too short, and some unknown-brand 700c wheels and Kenda 38mm tires that while questionable, have been completely satisfactory within the limits of my own low standards.

So far the list of possibilities includes:

Taiwan-built used Rivendell Atlantis frame (downside: 650b/canti studs, don't have decent 650b wheels ... could maybe get away with 26x2.0" temporariliy or run my old 38-622s with calipers?)
New Soma Buena Vista frame (downside: threadlessness ... though I've learned to live with that on my tandem)
New Soma Grand Randonneur frame (downside: 650b/cantis)
Univega Grand Touring frame
Vintage Novara Randonnee frame
Bridgestone XO-4 frame
Schwinn Voyageur frame
Vintage Cannondale ST frame (aluminium .... gak! ... j/k)
1980ish (?) Schwinn Super Sport S/P frame (Japan-built, Tange Champion tubes, fancy dropouts) with very cool fork crown eyelets
Complete recent-year Soma Doublecross in my area, nice build, might only have to change the handlebars. (downside: threadlessness)



So I've found some decent ideas. I've tried to pay attention to BB drop/height, since I've found stepping up and down in town with the Raleigh's high BB to be a pain, and to chainstay length, as the Raleigh's 47cm chainstays did make for a very decent ride. I've also considered that lack of cantilever studs *may* be a plus since I could have the option of changing 700c to 650b or vice versa ... not that you can't run calipers anyway, but you get the point. Threadlessness bugs me but I can deal .... the Cannondale's aluminum construction may or may not require a larger FD clamp. I also like the idea of a stepthrough for convenience with loads in town, but I've noticed that tends to limit options dramatically.


Anyone have interesting experience with some of the above platforms? I found a cool thread or two about Voyageurs, but not so much the other stuff. I read a lot, but my experience is actually quite limited, as my personal inventory is small for a bike hoarder and I've only test ridden one or two bikes at shops since about 1992!

Lascauxcaveman 

I can vouch for both the Cannondale ST and the Voyageur, because I have one of each

But for the heaviest possible loads, The Cannondale; all day, every day. I ride big frames, so flex becomes more of an issue the heavier the load is. On a smaller frame maybe that's not so important.

I also really dislike the threadless stem look, too. Those choices you listed all sound lovely, though.

1987cp

Good info, thanks!

The Cannondale I found is listed as 61.5cm, which I assume is to the top of the sticky-uppy seat tube. I measured my Grand Prix carefully and got 25.25" or 64.135cm. Might not give me room for my sprngy saddle, but from the look of the head tube I wouldn't want to go any shorter either. Plus when you're doing used, you don't always have your choice of sizes! :-D

Piff 

To narrow the search a bit, is 700x38mm w/ fenders your desired tire clearance?

I think a mid 90s Trek multitrack 750 would be pretty sweet.

noglider 

I say don't get too fixated on the model if you're looking for something used. Watch the bikes or frames for sale, and if one fits your criteria, grab it.

1987cp

+1

Charles Wahl

Specialized Expedition or Miyata 1000 (both about the same, with cantilever brakes)
Specialized Sequoia
Univega Specialissima
Aluminum: "gak!" is correct

1987cp

What's the dropout spacing on your Cannondale? Any idea if it changed year to year?

I just remembered that I've been accustomed to spreading frames willy-nilly, and not really caring because I've only ever really ridden on steel!



Edit: If this OP's information is correct, a 1984 model ST, which the one I'm considering may well be, has 126mm rear spacing. The wheels I intend to use are 130mm. Hmmmm....

https://community.vintagecannondale.c....187/#post-832

1987cp

Hmmmm ..... Got an offer to buy the Cannondale at a reduced price (cheaper than any other option), also read about the history of the model, which is interesting, and triple checked geometry charts, which show a both a lower BB and longer chainstays than most vintage tourers I'm aware of.

So ..... though switching to refined bauxite is still a little scary, my 700c rear wheel's OLD is now 126mm, which works better on my old Raleigh anyway. Just have to redish the wheel and true the front wheel (which got bent in my crash). And maybe buy brakes. Cannondale, here I come!

Lascauxcaveman 

Mine is a l990 ST and the dropouts are exactly l28mm apart, OLD. It's fine for a l26 or l30mm hub. Squeezing in the l30 hub it's running currently is a little bit of work, but not too drastic. Flexing the stays out one mm per side is basically nothing, even on aluminum. If the one you're looking at really has l26 old spacing, and it likely does, at that vintage, then it's gonna tougher to squeeze in a l30 spaced hub; I probably wouldn't attempt it, but most of the hubs I have can be spaced down a bit. Just pull out one or two spacers and put in some skinnier ones. The dropouts an a Cannondale are so thick, you might not even need to trim the axle length down.
.

Wildwood 

There were a number of reasons for long axle slots in dropouts on high-end (but not full-on race) lightweights that could also be touring/general purpose bikes.

checking a Holdsworth with Campy dropouts and Zeus with ...duh...Zeus.
[were they Campy1010 d/o's?]
there is roughly a range of 3cm.
Taking a 42cm stay out to 45. Just have a derailleur to handle both loaded and racy derailleur positions. And be happy with 26 or 28 cogs.


a long-ish cage derailleur helps compensate for the change in positioning and chain length concerns.

Jholden

i second the Miyata 1000, 600gt. if you're still hunting keep an eye on craigslist, facebook marketplace, etc. you'll find a gem to make your own.

RiddleOfSteel

The same as any vintage touring frame recommendations. Miyata 1000 if you can find it, with a 610's more sporting pretensions being more accessible from a price and quantity standpoint. 610s are plenty good on their own. There will be a number of Cannondale ST's popping up. The later canti-brake models have more generous tire and fender clearance (early ones were 32mm max), but any era of ST of any rank (provided swapping parts to upgrade if desired, is not an issue) is as at home in touring mode as it is out of the saddle and hustling it.

Piff 

You included the Schwinn Voyageur, but don't forget about the Passage. Another mid 80s touring model.

randyjawa 

I ride my early eighties Bianchi Touring in Jamaica and road conditions there are, where I ride mostly, third world in nature. Potholes, rough aggro-grate, twisty roads that go up and down but rarely flat. All in all, a really wonderful place to ride a sturdy road bike and my Bianchi has proved, with larger air volume tires, to be a reliably treat...

1987cp

That Bianchi looks really great! Is that a 38 or a 40mm tire?





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I got the Cannondale on Friday and had it on the street in probably under an hour. Took a few hours to remember that I do already own a FD with 31.8mm clamping diameter. Took until the next day to piece together a complete rear sidepull from my stash (crazy how bits get scattered - I'm working on being more organized in the future!), and to notice that the (shockingly smooth) BB it came with is 68mm and was spaced out on the wrong side for the Sakae touring crank I have.


Impressions?

a) It's a 1984, which is cool since it's the second year they made bikes and the year they introduced their mountain bike model, making for only two frame styles sold that year.

b) The design is well thought out. I like that Cannondale went low on the BBs on the S/T model and higher for their racier road models. A lot of brands were the opposite, which surely makes sense in some ways but makes them worse for me, and was the main reason I had thought of replacing the Alyeska even before the wreck. And the stays are shorter than the Alyeska but longer than most other options I've found data on.

c) Fork is Tange chromoly. I had not known that! I think my only other chromo fork is my '91 Paramount MOS.

d) Rear tire clearance is truly pathetic. I don't mind tight clearance, but wow. Cutting and welding clearance notches is not out of the question! Meanwhile, my 27x1-1/4s are free and don't rub.

e) 126mm rear spacing = need to use old UG 6/7 speed hubs or see what new hubs can be narrowed sufficiently.

f) The paint is trashed and eyelets need some attention, but I knew that before buying it! And knowing it needs paint opens up possibilities I've not normally considered on other bikes (mid fork eyelets, perhaps?). I think someone had ground the paint to reattach the top tube cable guides.

g) It rides really hard, but then, I haven't spent much time on the 27" wheels in quite some time.


Will be posting a dedicated thread for the new bike sometime soon!

Salamandrine 

Congrats on the new Cannondale.

FYI, 27 x 1 1/4" was the still standard touring tire at the time. 27 x 1 1/8" was also used, and the metric/700c equivalents were becoming more popular. There were no wider tires, practically speaking, and therefore there was reason to have room for a wider tire that 1 1/4". I assume you are joking about grinding out more space; if you aren't, you should be.

126 was used for so long it's still around. You can buy a perfectly good brand new set of 126 wheels from Velomine or other suppliers for peanuts.

It isn't possible to braze or weld new eyelets to that type of aluminum. The heat will destroy ~ half the strength. Technically, it's possible if you are willing to heat treat it correctly afterward, but this isn't that practical.

randyjawa 

The Bianchi sports 38mm tires, Compass from Japan and they are darn near bullet proof and trust me when I tell you that they just barely fit. Though hard to find in rural Jamaica, I did manage to scoop these guys in less than a week. The old NOS gumwalls, that I bought in Canada, failed utterly. NOS is still old and old tires are not to be trusted - anymore...

1987cp

Thanks!

Very true about brazing aluminum; I played with an aluminum brazing kit years ago, and the experiment was completely worthless! Brazing on steel, I've done successfully and might consider trying silver brazing on chromo. A shop in our area fusion welded an aluminum oil pan for me once (though I'm sure that's a different alloy), and I would absolutely talk to them before starting surgery on aluminum.

Where have you seen ready made 650b/126mm wheels for sale? Origin8 is offering very affordable 126mm freewheel hubs, and I've seen sources for them built into 700c wheels, but if someone's offering them off the shelf in 650b, I have yet to find out. 650b/130 even, I've only found two, maybe three sources (Harris, Velocity, now maybe Velomine), so maybe I'm just looking in all the wrong places?