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The resurgence of the "speakeasy" due to COVID-19 restrictions

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The resurgence of the "speakeasy" due to COVID-19 restrictions

Old 04-28-20, 03:40 PM
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The resurgence of the "speakeasy" due to COVID-19 restrictions

It's happening here in IL at least. With another month of restrictions possible, some small restaurants and bars have started offering dine-in service to regular customers and friends.

I went to one of these establishments this weekend, and it's almost exactly like you'd imagine it. One or two employees standing at the door to stop any unknowns from coming in, curtains pulled, and groups of people spaced a few tables apart. Everyone, staff included, has been over served. The staff is completely disregarding social distancing between themselves. The owner is going around hugging people as if there's nothing going on. There's an automatic 20% service fee and you are still expected to tip. Food offerings are somewhat limited, smaller servings, and more hastily prepared than usual to accommodate the to-go crowd. The atmosphere is happy-go-lucky and loud, but you feel like a fight could break out at any moment because of the sheer level of intoxication of the crowd.

Honestly I was high from the experience of feeling somewhat normal for the hour I was there, but I felt like a fool later on, and don't think I'll go again for obvious reasons. Part of me feels glad that the employees aren't completely laid off, but the other part of me feels like the owners of these establishments are taking advantage of a dangerous situation to recoup their own losses, and putting A LOT of people at risk in the process.

So, has anyone else seen anything similar? Would you report them if you had?
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Old 04-28-20, 04:10 PM
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I went out to a sandwich shop on Saturday. We got there and it is one of those places that has a lot of outdoor seating. There were 4 tables or so outside, spaced apart by 10 feet or so. So when we got our sandwiches, my SO and I pulled out a couple of chairs and sat down to eat. We thought it was OK (thinking they would have secured the chairs otherwise). We were no closer than 15 feet to anyone, and we were outdoors on a breezy day.

When I went to say thanks, the owner mentioned that we really shouldn't have been eating out there, but she thought it was ridiculous under the circumstances to give us grief about it. She also said that the restrictions are scheduled to be relaxed this coming Friday, and they are likely going to allow people to do just what we did ... eat separated by larger distances and outside.

Frankly, I think that is reasonable.

Would I be at a speakeasy hugging people and the like? Hell no. Would I report them? Yes.

But it goes to show one thing ... if you want people to comply with the law, you have to make sure they understand why and provide the best rationale you can for why the restrictions are truly necessary. "Because I said so" doesn't even work that well for kids. It most certainly does not work well for many adults.
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Old 04-28-20, 04:18 PM
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No

One of the big problems in Western society is that a lot of people are experts on what everyone else should do. If you ran a restaurant, I am sure there would be people who think the way you do it is wrong. If you are not happy, don't go there, but leave them to do what they are doing.

They would probably be in financial difficulty if they did not open.

It is madness / bad business to let in those they know, and keep out those they don't know. Some of those people will remember, and stay away in the future.
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Old 04-28-20, 05:06 PM
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Biker's story reminded me of this:
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ng/3037785001/
On March 27, a deputy reported seeing two men sitting at a table in the common area drinking a bucket of beer. On March 31, a deputy reported seeing several more people eating and drinking outside the restaurant.

The tables were removed at one point, according to reports, but a deputy reported on April 5 observing about 10 people again standing or sitting at tables in front of and next to the business, eating and drinking alcohol.

Maricopa County Sheriff's Office deputies reported talking to the owner numerous times between March 21 and April 5 about the governor's orders and the health reasons surrounding it and asking her to remove the tables and chairs from outside the restaurant.

She continued to deny that she was in violation, according to reports. Kraja told deputies that she was selling the food and drinks to go, but she couldn't control what customers do with the alcohol as they wait for their food.
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Old 04-28-20, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post

I wish I had a pix of what this place looked like. To me, it appeared as if they placed the little tables a wide distance apart so that people could eat at them safely (there used to be more tables). I think they were all about 15 feet apart, and there were maybe 4 of them. We were the only ones out there when we were eating, and I thought it perfectly safe. This was in a different county, and I actually thought outdoor dining was permitted (this stuff is in constant flux).

Eating in a group, indoors, hugging, and not maintaining a respectful distance ... another matter entirely.
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Old 04-28-20, 06:50 PM
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If you follow the logic of some people (not all people) to its conclusion. They would have strict rules in place till the businesses go bankrupt. Then when they see all the closed shop fronts, they will say, we should not have been so strict, so the businesses would still be open.
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Old 04-28-20, 10:12 PM
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Looks like there might be no reason for eat-easies hereabouts soon. This should be interesting ...

https://www.foxla.com/news/the-oc-bo...pen-businesses
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Old 04-30-20, 07:17 AM
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I'd absolutely report that, and if they're doing it to "save" their business, they're idiots. More than likely they will lose their business permits as a result and there won't be an option to come back.

Biker395 's outdoor table situation is a close call, but since they're doing it out in the open, I wouldn't feel a need to report it, figuring that the public health officials have really made that determination that it's okay already.
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Old 04-30-20, 07:57 AM
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But there may not be an option to come back if they adhere to the orders. Reports are upwards of 70% of restaurants may close.

This speakeasy style restaurant could actually be a thing. Imagine a NYC restaurant which are generally tiny and packed with huge rent suddenly told they have to have 1/2 or 1/3 capacity. They can't possibly make ends meet.
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Old 04-30-20, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
But there may not be an option to come back if they adhere to the orders. Reports are upwards of 70% of restaurants may close.

This speakeasy style restaurant could actually be a thing. Imagine a NYC restaurant which are generally tiny and packed with huge rent suddenly told they have to have 1/2 or 1/3 capacity. They can't possibly make ends meet.

Agreed that it's tough, but undermining the effectiveness of social distancing by operating this way isn't an acceptable option, and if they're going to lose the business, doing it in a way that isn't going to kill anyone or possibly even be criminal is probably the way to go.

If you let them get away with it, you're punishing the other businesses for obeying the restrictions.
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Old 04-30-20, 12:00 PM
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'Letting them get away with it' isn't something I said, or think should happen. Merely that given the prognosis of going out of business this is likely to become more common.
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Old 04-30-20, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
But it goes to show one thing ... if you want people to comply with the law, you have to make sure they understand why and provide the best rationale you can for why the restrictions are truly necessary. "Because I said so" doesn't even work that well for kids. It most certainly does not work well for many adults.
I listened to exactly what my governor said, did you? The rationale for why shut downs were necessary was communicated properly, based on science, and made perfect sense. But some chose to ignore. My guess is many of these deniers go to great lengths to avoid actual science, preferring echo chambers that tell them only what they want to hear. Please advise which leaders told their people "Because I said so".
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Old 04-30-20, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
'Letting them get away with it' isn't something I said, or think should happen. Merely that given the prognosis of going out of business this is likely to become more common.

Maybe, maybe not. The possibility of a young person having a stroke seems to have shocked a few people out of wanting to hang out at such places. It'll take a lot of demand for this to pay, but it only takes one person to report.
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Old 04-30-20, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
I listened to exactly what my governor said, did you? The rationale for why shut downs were necessary was communicated properly, based on science, and made perfect sense. But some chose to ignore. My guess is many of these deniers go to great lengths to avoid actual science, preferring echo chambers that tell them only what they want to hear. Please advise which leaders told their people "Because I said so".
Why so confrontational? Sheez. Did I mention a governor at all? I don't even know who your governor is.

So far, I haven't seen a lot of information from anyone in that regard. The mandates come down, but I've not seen any attempt of anyone to show what data we have (IFR, CFR, Ro with and without social distancing), why we need to do more or less or anything of that nature at all. As far as I can tell, it's been all a black box. All I am saying is that it helps to connect the science and the data with the policies they are suggesting on specifically enough for people to understand. It goes a long way to getting compliance with a good part of the demographic. If I were the one making the decisions, I would be entirely transparent about what we know, what we don't, what we decided to do, and the data and models to back it up.
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Old 04-30-20, 09:57 PM
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So a few hours ago a person that owns what used to be a restaurant asked me (for no apparent reason) how to tell if someone was "safe". Once we established "safe" had nothing to do with any sickness, I said to look at their hair. Unless they are a politician, if they look like they have had their hair addressed by other than their spouse, you know they are "safe".

Context: in a county that has 1.4 deaths per 100K (1/5 the flu) and most think due to miss-reporting.
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Old 05-01-20, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
Please advise which leaders told their people "Because I said so".
You might have heard that Orange County (a populous county in Southern California) had opened it's beaches last week. They had a lot of visitors, but the LEOs were busy monitoring matters and assuring separation compliance ... and there was substantial compliance. But there were the typically misleading (telephoto perspective) photos of beach goers all crowded together posted in the media. So the governor ordered the beaches closed. I'm not sure he even consulted local officials or health officials ... if he did, he made no attempt to publicize that. He just closed the beaches in that county (and not in other counties, BTW).

That is in the nature of what I would call "because I said so."

The result is that one of the cities in the County (Huntington Beach) is asking a judge to enjoin the Governor's order. And it isn't clear how the Governor's order would even be enforced, as that is typically a job for county officials (lifeguards and sherrifs), and it doesn't look like they will cooperate.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...of-o-c-beaches

So that is what I mean by "Because I said so" being a bad idea. So long as the Governor's basis for the closure wasn't capricious or retaliatory, and has some reasonable basis and not based on all the misleading photos in the media, I'm totally good, regarless of the outcome.



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Old 05-01-20, 07:24 AM
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So you are saying that a governor can suspend the entire US Constitution and Bill of Rights, as long as he wants, as long as said suspension wasn't arbitrary or capricious? That does not sound right to me, sorry.
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Old 05-01-20, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
So you are saying that a governor can suspend the entire US Constitution and Bill of Rights, as long as he wants, as long as said suspension wasn't arbitrary or capricious? That does not sound right to me, sorry.

Classic straw man argument. Literally no one said that.
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Old 05-01-20, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
So you are saying that a governor can suspend the entire US Constitution and Bill of Rights, as long as he wants, as long as said suspension wasn't arbitrary or capricious? That does not sound right to me, sorry.
Yep. I had to move out of my home to make room for soldiers to live, and they're torturing my neighbor in a cruel and unusual way without even proving he's guilty.

We can't even decide who our senators will be anymore.
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Old 05-01-20, 10:39 AM
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The irony is that the act of not following the recommendations is self absorbed and utterly unpatriotic. Don't like the rules, then leave.
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Old 05-01-20, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
The irony is that the act of not following the recommendations is self absorbed and utterly unpatriotic. Don't like the rules, then leave.
Who's recommendations are you referring to? Orange County or the State of California?
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Old 05-01-20, 11:35 AM
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Is this a california only thread? Lemond referred to 'a' governor?

Bottom line is all the patriots complaining about their rights talk out one side of their mouths about America and the other is all me me me.

Stay home because it's good for your country. Wear a mask because it's good for your countrymen. Obey shut down business, or distance rules because it's good for your countrymen.

Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. It's following the recommendations. Humble acts of obedience will ultimately save lives, because this isn't going away so fast.
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Old 05-01-20, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Yep. I had to move out of my home to make room for soldiers to live, and they're torturing my neighbor in a cruel and unusual way without even proving he's guilty.

We can't even decide who our senators will be anymore.

You think that's bad? The state of New Hampshire just started coining money and granting letters of marque and reprisal in my living room.
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Old 05-01-20, 11:53 AM
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I haven't heard of anything like this in my neck of the woods. That doesn't mean it isn't happening, I'm not a foodie, I wouldn't be invited.

I wouldn't go, either, out of pure selfishness. I don't want to get sick. The more we know about this disease, the nastier it sounds. If we're expecting 70% of the population to eventually be infected, I want to be part of the 30% that doesn't. We'll have a vaccine eventually, there's talk about taking shortcuts like infecting volunteers, and may have one in the fall as a result. If I can keep working from home, I can get takeout and see friends at parks from 10 feet until fall.

Riding a bike is important to me. Hiking, climbing, and skiing are important parts of my life that help keep me centered. The kind of life-long damage to the lungs of some people who've been through this could take all of that from me. I don't need to go to a restaurant that badly.
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Old 05-01-20, 11:59 AM
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True enough. I'm hoping my issues aren't permanent. I feel relatively healthy, but am stuck at approximately 20% less power with higher HRs than I had in January.
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