Sy Reene

fwiw.. another photo from the side.. it is pretty good amount of space for a local bike shop. Perhaps @oldnslow2 might have some insights on Brands' means to offer such an online presence; I believe he's mentioned them as his usual go-to shop.

Hondo Gravel

cs1

GlennR

I was just there today, stopped by for a "nature break" on my ride.

Brands has a HUGE showroom along with 6-7 work stations for assembly and 3-4 for repairs. They also sell fitness equipment. They have a remote warehouse and have an extensive inventory. I can tell you that the "internet" prices are sometimes better than the store and they will honor it if you mention it. They also have a very large Spring and Fall sale. I stock up on chemicals and a few years ago got a $180 winter jacket for $80.

greatscott

First off LBS's are not dying, don't be so dramatic! They still control 49% of the dollars made in the cycling world. The main reason that some small mom and pop shops closed was to consolidate not because of the internet, their sales were low, which is typical of mom and pop shops, so they combined their resources with another local shop to get larger buying power. So just how much business is the internet taking from LBS's? only 2 percent! heck large department, chain and discount stores take 32% of the business away from LBS's, but in reality they don't take that much business away because those type of stores sell bikes that average price is $200 whereas LBS's average sale price is $753, the LBS doesn't want the small sale anyway, there's very little profit in that stuff and they would take up valuable floor space. The rest of the percentage missing in those figures is classified as others. The thing that is hurting the bottom line, profit, on selling a new bike is the new electronic systems, it takes longer to build a bike with those then it does with mechanical, so the labor cost has doubled for those types of bikes

Usually I fix my own but on occasion I take it into a shop because I the repair I'm getting is rarely done and may need a speciality tool or two that cost a lot of money, so it's cheaper to have them fix it then to buy the tools. Even though I true my own wheels I don't have truing stand or dish tools, so if I need a pro true then I take it in because truing tools and stands are expensive, but I only have to do that maybe once in the wheels lifetime. A lot of people fix their own bikes, it's been like that since forever, however today's youth are not mechanically inclined like they once were, so LBSs are actually seeing an increase in repairs.

Anyway bike shops are not a dying breed, but I will tell you what's about to happen in the next 10 to maybe 15 years. Right now it's the baby boomer generation that's driving sales of bikes, especially expensive bikes, gen x and millennials are not! So once the baby boomers start dying off sales will start to decline by a lot; right now sales are down 10% for 2018 but the cycling industry increased prices on bikes, parts and accessories to offset the lost of sales, so dollar wise it's up 4%, but they can only increase prices so much before people start to complain loudly by closing their wallets, so probably 2019 or 2020 there will be balanced scale and it may stay like that for about 5 years, but sometime around 2024 and 2026 the dollars will also decrease as well because the baby boomers will be hanging up their bikes more and more which means less and less being spent on parts and accessories, and less and less of them are buying bikes. Just my opinion by the way.

For a bike shop to stay in business for the long haul they have to start branching out from selling just bikes, they have to find some sports that are popular in the area the store is located and start selling other sports stuff; running, snow sports, water sports, weight training stuff, etc, to keep sales hopping through various seasons. I have a bike shop in town that puts most of their remaining stock of bikes more condensed in the back of the store in the winter months and sell nothing but home gyms in the front of the store, in the spring they reverse it. I know of another shop in Bakersfield Calif that has an excellent marketing program going on, they sell all sorts of other sports and that store is popping all year round, and that store started as just a bicycle only shop, but soon discovered it was too seasonal, plus some years bike sales are slow, so they needed other stuff to keep selling no matter what happens to bikes. For those that live in Bakersfield you know which store I'm talking about, it's owned by Kerry Ryan called Action Sports; I see from visiting their web site I think they reduced some of the sports stuff to put in a Vert Rock Gym and an indoor spin class, and now it looks like they only do bikes and snow sports, and then added the gym stuff. Kerry Ryan is a very intelligent business man as well as a very talented cyclist. Some shops are putting in coffee and or IPA beer bars with club house feel to it, similar to what golf has had for many years, so people can drink, talk to others and buy stuff, the interesting thing about clubhouse type of atomsphere is that as you are talking "shop" to another customer drinking coffee or beer one of you mention you like a certain product a lot and the other person buys it! so clubhouse customers will sell each other on stuff. So a shop is going to have to think outside the box if they're going to stay in business, or at least be more profitable as lean times approach. Coffee is very profitable by the way!

Sy Reene

Thanks for chiming in. No doubt they have good inventory for a shop, but it's also apparent that they've built in distributor inventory into their online presence. Take a single product like the Spesh Toupe Pro saddle. In the middle 143mm size, it's in stock. Adding either of the other 2 sizes (130 or 155) to cart and going to checkout, tells you that it will ship in 4 days directly(?) from Specialized. You can opt to have shipped to store (free I think) or pay shipping to home.

Anyway, it's a nice workaround model for an LBS trying to compete. Thinking about some things I wouldn't probably do myself on my bike -- installing new crank, cabling, headset, BB, who knows.. The online system, allows ability to check stock, order shipped to store if need be, and then following up with a phone call to schedule installation of whatever. No surprises, no disappointments.

livedarklions

Note though that to do the online thing to the extent they do, they have to maintain a warehouse separate from the store. They're really running two different retail businesses under the same name, and that must have taken a large investment in order to do both well.

TiHabanero

When talking about the number one reason our customers go online for an item and the first thing on the list is price followed by availability. If a bike shop stocked every item available to the industry would that be enough to draw local customers in to purchase any item they needed instead of going to the internet? Hmm, not likely as price is the number one concern. I say it is a red herring to argue the "effort" a brick and mortar shore puts forth to have an online presence makes buying from that source that much more likely.

If the price ain't right, the customer will go elsewhere. With brick and mortar it is another local shop, with the internet it will be a different low price point competitor, and there are thousands of them all over the world. Think back to Supergo and Arnie Nashbar.

Price is king for many, many, many consumers.

greatscott

Price is indeed king, especially in the last 5 years as prices have skyrocketed in cycling stuff; for example I bought a Voler semi clear rain jacket 4 years ago with a regular retail price of $18 I got it for $12, that jacket was a closeout, the following season they put out a new jacket, looked exactly the same except a zipper instead of velcro closure, the new price was $68 (now they've dropped that jacket and gone with one with a longer tail and it cost $108). Also tires. for example, at an LBS are crazy expensive, one Vittoria Rubino Pro G+ at my LBS is $90 I can get it on line for $31! Then a lot of LBS's will carry never heard of brands for pumps etc, stuff you can't find on the internet to find out if the reviews on the product is any good, or they'll carry inferior products like Portland design Works that can't get a road tire past 60psi. I don't care about price if they're close, but I'll be damn if I'm going to pay 2 or 3 times the cost for a product just so I can keep a LBS in business; I live in California, it's expensive to live here, but any fool that knows how to budget isn't going to pay 2 or 3 times more for a product just for fun.

Regardless of what the internet, the stats I mentioned in my earlier post shows that LBS's aren't doing bad at all, they still have a commanding lead of the dollar percentage over anyone else.

Dr.Lou

I've been working in the Philippines for a while so I am not on top of it like I used to be, but when I was in the Sacramento area this past January, all the Performance Bicycle shops were having closing sales. Sadly, I suspect the internet stores are killing mom and pop. However, since it's expensive and with logistical issues inherent to island living, it's usually easier to get bikes and cycling gear for local stores.

rossiny

holey long winded batman. !!!. If you own a business , which I do. There is an old saying , THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT@@@@!!!!!!. translation the customer can bring his money elsewhere...>>>>>>$$$$$ . Frankly if I owned the bike shop I would have ordered the bleeder needed and done it for free for the inconvienance , hoping he will come again or refer another customer. PS. I have been in business, nothing bike related , but all businesses have ONE thing in common CUSTOMERS.. with out them NO business. I have been in business at 25 years of age officially and did side jobs in my teens. I am 57 years old a d learned a thing or two. You do the math . Young laddy... .

livedarklions

I think I've said this before, but increasingly the LBS function in selling parts and accessories is the same function convenience stores play in grocery shopping--you use it in a pinch, or when your time is worth the extra money. I buy almost no parts and accessories from my LBS, but I've bought bikes from both of the ones in town, and I have had them serviced there. I see no obligation to overpay for tires and such to "keep them in business" , and I don't think they expect me to. We really aren't the target customers for such overpriced stuff unless we're in the middle of a century and just happen to have a massive blow out a few blocks from the shop.

Happy Feet

Yep, perhaps not for free but with apologies for the wait and perhaps a discount or break on an accessory.

I too operated a small business and whenever I took on a job that needed a special tool I bought it as part of my operating expenses. In a short time I had a lot of tools. The customer was right in the sense that I needed their business so doing my bit to meet their needs was my goal. You can''t always do it but you should try. Not having a basic tool to service the bikes you sell is not trying very hard. Perhaps it is an oversight, but when that happens you recognize that and fix it - not make a customer feel like an after thought.

In some ways I am the opposite of some opinions expressed. I buy a lot of small stuff from local stores because they stock it and I like to support them. The disconnect comes when I want something bigger or odder and they can't come close to either service or price. Price isn't always king if the shop works to build relationships but if they don't then there is really nothing to bind the customer to them.

Just stopped into a new small home based shop on the weekend in a rural farming town that lies on a roadie circuit. He sells one brand of expense bike but a lot of sundries. Apparently everyone in town needs new tubes because the old ones went flat over the winter!

rossiny

On the subject of online sales. I just order a handy dandy rolling cart with 3 wheels on each side to go up and down stairs. Turns out that it really does not make it easier, also when it is on the floor the two wheels are down on each side. I makes it stable but when you have two wheels that can not turn on each side the cart can not turn , especially when loaded down. Turns out it was a sold by a third party on Amazon. So they wanted a video sent to them explaining the defect. !!! I called Amazon and explained it is their website and they should honor that I bought from Amazon
a manager agreed to reimburse my credit card. I told them I would return to any drop off center they had. She said just either donate it or throw it out. So the moral of the story is online sales are like buying with you eyes closed... And another thing had Amazon not honored their business commitment Amazon would be closed now🤓🤓🤓😂😂😂ok right?? (Sarcasm)

Kabuki12

Here in Ventura , California we have a few choices. Recently Trek Bikes of Ventura closed abruptly without warning. Being a vintage road bike guy , I usually go to Open Air Bikes on Main St. I do most of my own work and buy some vintage stuff online , but still spend a bit of money at LBS to get cables , accessories , bar tape and other stuff. Last time I was in the Open Air shop (3 weeks ago) it was packed and Mark said they have been "swamped". This is good news for sure . They work on the bikes in front of you while you shop , just like the 70's. Joe joesvintageroadbikes.wordpress

Maelochs

@RossinNY----The customer is Not always right .... in fact, some customers will make unreasonable demands. Anyone who has worked in customer service knows this. Some customers cost more than they ar worth.

Also , as in this case .... the "customer" was requesting a service which obviously was not the shop's specialty ... else they would have had the tool. So ... the shop does nto need his business. it has enough cuystomers which buy What That Shop Is Selling, that it can tell a customer "That will take a week" and the customer can choose.

Seriously, think it through ...

I come into a bike shop, and I want a Shimano 8000 group set. The shop doesn't sell group sets because people can order them online for Much cheaper, retail, than the shop can get them whole sale./ Are you saying the shop should go out, Buy the group set at he higher price, then sell it at the online retail price and eat the $100+ loss, to retain the customer? But the customer is Always right, and the customer wants a price match ..... which you cannot match ...

or a brake bleed, and you cannot do it in under a few days ....

If I go to the Chevy dealer and demand a Mustang, the dealer had best go to the Ford dealership and buy one to sell to me .... Right?

rossiny

[QUOTE=Maelochs;20887492]@RossinNY----The customer is Not always right .... in fact, some customers will make unreasonable demands. Anyone who has worked in customer service knows this. Some customers cost more than they ar worth.

Also , as in this case .... the "customer" was requesting a service which obviously was not the shop's specialty ... else they would have had the tool. So ... the shop does nto need his business. it has enough cuystomers which buy What That Shop Is Selling, that it can tell a customer "That will take a week" and the customer can choose.

Seriously, think it through ...

I come into a bike shop, and I want a Shimano 8000 group set. The shop doesn't sell group sets because people can order them online for Much cheaper, retail, than the shop can get them whole sale./ Are you saying the shop should go out, Buy the group set at he higher price, then sell it at the online retail price and eat the $100+ loss, to retain the customer? But the customer is Always right, and the customer wants a price match ..... which you cannot match ...

or a brake bleed, and you cannot do it in under a few days ....

If I go to the Chevy dealer and demand a Mustang,

rossiny

You are making up scenarios.. A brake bleed is a reasonable repair job. It seems to be a common brake system , and yes if he continues to do this his reputation will suffer along with his business. You almost sound like you are associated with this bike shop?? Take my Amazon example: they sell a product that is defective and then tried to blame on 3rd party. The brake bleed job is similar scenerio. That repair can be done in 30 minutes with the right tool and key word..know - how. Being in business means accepting responsibility for the business . I recently had to part ways with a " partner" who refused to accept responsibility , only pointing blame. Any way being in business or self - employed is not for everyone. 🙄

greatscott

I use to do business with Open Air in Santa Barbara, but when I went back to them about 25 years after leaving there they shut down the big store they had in the old depot building, now they have a smaller store on state street.

Yeah, I don't believe for one minute that Bike shops are being destroyed by internet sales, and the stats are proof they are not. Small mom and pop operations have always had a tough time, I knew several that closed before the internet thing even took off because they couldn't afford to stay in business. I love bikes, but I would never go into that business as much as I would love to dream, but I'll just leave it there, in a dream.

pickettt

To be fair, "before the internet thing," cycling was not nearly as popular as it is now. So if small cycling businesses were closing before, it may have been because they didn't have the customer base it has now. I've been racing many disciplines of bikes since the 80s and the number of cyclists on the road has grown exponentially.

pickettt

Campy is not trying to fit every bike on the planet with its components. There are still enough exacting cyclists out there to support them. Greed isn't their business model.

livedarklions

Before the internet thing, there were the big box stores that were taking out small retail stores of all sorts, not just bikes.

63rickert

Bikes are no longer Campy's core business. Materials engineering is. Bike parts are a legacy they will continue for some time as long as that line does not hemorrhage too much cash.

Agree about Shimano. It has always been that way w/Shimano and is getting worse. This has zero effect on Shimano sales. I have been boycotting them since 1973. It's lonely over here.

radroad

The traditional mom and pop bike shops have gotten squeezed out of the market by direct to consumer brands. Lots and lots of innovative brands are selling direct to consumer now. YT, Fezzari, Canyon, Commencal, Diamondback, Evil, Intense, Guerrilla Gravity, Spot on the mtb side deal primarily with consumers directly. Then there are the many dozens of direct to consumer electric bike brands. These are the two largest segments of the bicycling industry and both sell directly to consumer in increasing numbers.

The super low cost of Chinese manufacturing and the universality of internet sales have opened up the market in ways inconceivable a decade or two ago. This is obviously very disruptive to traditional retailing, but the strongest and most innovative will survive.

That is, until the inevitable(?) shakeout of smaller companies and consolidation into huge mega corporations. Of course, they will eventually stagnate, leaving room for a new round of small upstarts who are innovative and imaginative.

greatscott

Oh I can't agree with more! however small shops back in the day closed for different reasons, the profit margins back in the day of handbuilt bikes shrank to almost zero over the years till the 80's came and it was its worst, and bike shops couldn't afford to stay open, this is when bike manufactures decided to go more into robo building of bikes including even steel lugged bikes! It was a huge boon for bike shops when aluminum frames came out because they were very cheap to make allowing the bike shops to charge more money so they could make a profit, CF frames eventually followed that same path though initially they were very expensive due to them being all hand laid in America. Shifting production of most cycling stuff to China reduced the cost to make substantially and again allowing the bike shops to make more profit. Even so today mom and pop shops, or as one place in town is wife and husband shop (they don't have kids yet so they can't be a mom and pop shop right?) anyway, they don't make a lot of money, but they're content with that because they love bicycles, so I know do any in store purchases from them because they're a lot nicer than the big shop in town and they appreciate the business whereas the big shop seems as if they don't need the money.

Here is another take on why bike shops are losing business today (besides the age thing I mentioned): https://streets.mn/2015/07/29/why-ar...the-14th-year/