Tell me why I shouldn't be scared of dying on the road ...
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08-12-19, 05:35 AM
#227
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You are scared because you are not all wrapped up in denial like many here. You see a potential problem, think about it without bias, and make your choices. This is normal human problem solving. Congratulations!
Pickup trucks are larger than ever, phones and other distractions are the norm these days, and everybody is drunk, smoking pot, or hooked on opiates behind the wheel - depending on where you live. OF COURSE you should be concerned. The only question now is "What are you going to do about it?" This is an individual decision only YOU can make. If you are young, single, and care-free your thought process might be different than if you have a wife and a few small children to care for. So many factors to consider.
Your options fall somewhere between throwing caution to the wind, or no cycling on roadways ever again. Or stick to paths and off road maybe.
Caution to the wind -------- everything in between ------- never cycle on a roadway.
In my early 30s I biked across the USA five times fully self contained. I would have preferred dying to staying home. When I hit 60 my mindset changed and I sold nearly all the bikes and got a new job one mile from my house, in a large park, that I generally skate or walk to. My bike is for nasty weather only and a few errands. I never ride a bike for fun - only necessity (I do not own a car). I do my best to use roadways that have some room to spare when forced to cycle around traffic.
Would you dive into a pool full of well fed sharks that happen to be distracted, blind, and stupid? Enjoy Russian roulette much? It's really up to you. I have lived at both ends of the spectrum and was happy at those times with my decisions. Obviously I lived to talk about it.
Good luck! I am not voting on what you should do. Just spreading experiences.
Pickup trucks are larger than ever, phones and other distractions are the norm these days, and everybody is drunk, smoking pot, or hooked on opiates behind the wheel - depending on where you live. OF COURSE you should be concerned. The only question now is "What are you going to do about it?" This is an individual decision only YOU can make. If you are young, single, and care-free your thought process might be different than if you have a wife and a few small children to care for. So many factors to consider.
Your options fall somewhere between throwing caution to the wind, or no cycling on roadways ever again. Or stick to paths and off road maybe.
Caution to the wind -------- everything in between ------- never cycle on a roadway.
In my early 30s I biked across the USA five times fully self contained. I would have preferred dying to staying home. When I hit 60 my mindset changed and I sold nearly all the bikes and got a new job one mile from my house, in a large park, that I generally skate or walk to. My bike is for nasty weather only and a few errands. I never ride a bike for fun - only necessity (I do not own a car). I do my best to use roadways that have some room to spare when forced to cycle around traffic.
Would you dive into a pool full of well fed sharks that happen to be distracted, blind, and stupid? Enjoy Russian roulette much? It's really up to you. I have lived at both ends of the spectrum and was happy at those times with my decisions. Obviously I lived to talk about it.
Good luck! I am not voting on what you should do. Just spreading experiences.
08-12-19, 05:47 AM
#228
Zip tie Karen
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I'm content to do as @Marci said above, I'm aware, take only measured risks, and enjoy my riding. If I die, I die. I'm going to die anyway, and sooner rather than later.
It's best to be prepared to die. Have your affairs in order, love the people around you, and address the spiritual/eternal implications as best you understand and accept them. What's to be afraid of?
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08-12-19, 08:28 AM
#229
Senior Member
Also most wild animals do not go around killing members of their own species.
08-12-19, 08:35 AM
#230
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Where i live in fl you are more likely to get hit by a car than struck by lightning and bit by a shark....and its the shark bite, lightning capitol of the world. So the moral of the story is watch out while riding in central fl east coast....well pretty much fl drivers suck...thats why we all have safe driver on our licenses.
09-02-19, 03:32 PM
#231
Full Member
By "live with it", I'm guessing that you mean accept the consequences of your actions and choices.
I'm content to do as @Marci said above, I'm aware, take only measured risks, and enjoy my riding. If I die, I die. I'm going to die anyway, and sooner rather than later.
It's best to be prepared to die. Have your affairs in order, love the people around you, and address the spiritual/eternal implications as best you understand and accept them. What's to be afraid of?
I'm content to do as @Marci said above, I'm aware, take only measured risks, and enjoy my riding. If I die, I die. I'm going to die anyway, and sooner rather than later.
It's best to be prepared to die. Have your affairs in order, love the people around you, and address the spiritual/eternal implications as best you understand and accept them. What's to be afraid of?
But I digress - the important thing in that paper is just how safe bicycles really are. You are four times safer riding a bicycle than walking on the sidewalk. Although it may not feel like it you are more than 700 times safer riding a bicycle than driving up to the corner store.
You FEEL safer driving and walking but you aren't. That is purely because you have driven and walked for such a large part of your life without injury. And all of this is because even as dangerous as driving a car the odds are very small that you will be injured. I've ridden for more than 40 years and was hit about a year ago by a woman rolling through a stop sign without looking. The injuries were relatively minor. Then two weeks later that same idiotic old woman did the same thing again but I was on the lookout then.
09-02-19, 05:07 PM
#232
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"Tell me why I shouldn't be scared of dying on the road .."
"In 2016, 18,477 cyclists were injured in reported road accidents, including 3,499 who were killed or seriously injured."
and then frm CDC
"
statistically, you are pretty safe on a bicycle.
"In 2016, 18,477 cyclists were injured in reported road accidents, including 3,499 who were killed or seriously injured."
and then frm CDC
"
Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
- Heart disease: 647,457
- Cancer: 599,108
- Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
- Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
- Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
- Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
- Diabetes: 83,564
- Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672
- Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 50,633
- Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173
statistically, you are pretty safe on a bicycle.
09-02-19, 08:33 PM
#233
Junior Member
I once wrote a paper on the efficacy of bicycle helmets. There was none. Though the latest Bontrager helmets may actually work.
But I digress - the important thing in that paper is just how safe bicycles really are. You are four times safer riding a bicycle than walking on the sidewalk. Although it may not feel like it you are more than 700 times safer riding a bicycle than driving up to the corner store.
You FEEL safer driving and walking but you aren't. That is purely because you have driven and walked for such a large part of your life without injury. And all of this is because even as dangerous as driving a car the odds are very small that you will be injured. I've ridden for more than 40 years and was hit about a year ago by a woman rolling through a stop sign without looking. The injuries were relatively minor. Then two weeks later that same idiotic old woman did the same thing again but I was on the lookout then.
But I digress - the important thing in that paper is just how safe bicycles really are. You are four times safer riding a bicycle than walking on the sidewalk. Although it may not feel like it you are more than 700 times safer riding a bicycle than driving up to the corner store.
You FEEL safer driving and walking but you aren't. That is purely because you have driven and walked for such a large part of your life without injury. And all of this is because even as dangerous as driving a car the odds are very small that you will be injured. I've ridden for more than 40 years and was hit about a year ago by a woman rolling through a stop sign without looking. The injuries were relatively minor. Then two weeks later that same idiotic old woman did the same thing again but I was on the lookout then.
Or is it?
Twisty canyon roads tend to be encrusted with speed limit signs far below the actual flow of traffic. Most people still slow down for the curves they actually perceive to be dangerous. Only a small percentage of traffic runs off the road. So I was puzzled when the new guardrails started picking up some massive dents. Now most people, if you ask them, would agree that allowing the presence of a guardrail to influence how fast you take a curve isn't very bright. I don't know if the new "safety" features actually killed anybody but the bondo bandits at the local body shops certainly picked up some extra business.
I ride a utility bike in a mostly upright position wearing my normal clothes including a wide brimmed hat to keep the tropical sun from turning my ears crispy. I'm occasionally passed by some guy on a high performance road bike wearing specialized biking gear including helmet and cranking along in a streamlined tuck. More often I get passed by some local kid on a beat up single speed wearing shorts, T-shirt and flip flops. I can't help wondering sometimes which of us is more likely to get into a non-survivable accident.
09-03-19, 12:10 AM
#234
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You're going to die period. How you die is probably not up to you. Just be careful and try to die much later.
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09-03-19, 04:34 AM
#235
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I think of discussions on risk as similar to the discussion threads along the lines of "is spending xxx dollars on a bike 'worth it'". There's so much that's very personal and the answer depends on personal circumstances and values. There's not an objective truth that leads everyone to the same answer.
For an amazing example of the risk/fear equation, I'd recommend watching the documentary "Free Solo" about a guy, Alex Honnold, who free-soloed El Capitan (free soloing is rock climbing with no ropes or other equipment). Most people would consider that an insanely risky thing to do but his take on risk is very interesting. He talks about expanding his comfort zone through preparation so that what, at first seems high-risk, gradually seems less so. It's not about being reckless, but about taking what's in our control to mitigate risk. So, for him, at the time he finally climbed El Capitan, it didn't appear scary or high-risk because he had so thoroughly prepared himself to mitigate risks.
Here's a brief interview clip done after the documentary came out:
Can't recommend the documentary enough. Quite an extraordinary guy.
btw, I'm another who appreciates JFB's posts and think some of the criticisms were unnecessarily harsh.
For an amazing example of the risk/fear equation, I'd recommend watching the documentary "Free Solo" about a guy, Alex Honnold, who free-soloed El Capitan (free soloing is rock climbing with no ropes or other equipment). Most people would consider that an insanely risky thing to do but his take on risk is very interesting. He talks about expanding his comfort zone through preparation so that what, at first seems high-risk, gradually seems less so. It's not about being reckless, but about taking what's in our control to mitigate risk. So, for him, at the time he finally climbed El Capitan, it didn't appear scary or high-risk because he had so thoroughly prepared himself to mitigate risks.
Here's a brief interview clip done after the documentary came out:
Can't recommend the documentary enough. Quite an extraordinary guy.
btw, I'm another who appreciates JFB's posts and think some of the criticisms were unnecessarily harsh.
09-03-19, 07:11 AM
#237
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I think of discussions on risk as similar to the discussion threads along the lines of "is spending xxx dollars on a bike 'worth it'". There's so much that's very personal and the answer depends on personal circumstances and values. There's not an objective truth that leads everyone to the same answer.
For an amazing example of the risk/fear equation, I'd recommend watching the documentary "Free Solo" about a guy, Alex Honnold, who free-soloed El Capitan (free soloing is rock climbing with no ropes or other equipment). Most people would consider that an insanely risky thing to do but his take on risk is very interesting. He talks about expanding his comfort zone through preparation so that what, at first seems high-risk, gradually seems less so. It's not about being reckless, but about taking what's in our control to mitigate risk. So, for him, at the time he finally climbed El Capitan, it didn't appear scary or high-risk because he had so thoroughly prepared himself to mitigate risks.
Here's a brief interview clip done after the documentary came out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5V0ZJQor9M
Can't recommend the documentary enough. Quite an extraordinary guy.
btw, I'm another who appreciates JFB's posts and think some of the criticisms were unnecessarily harsh.
For an amazing example of the risk/fear equation, I'd recommend watching the documentary "Free Solo" about a guy, Alex Honnold, who free-soloed El Capitan (free soloing is rock climbing with no ropes or other equipment). Most people would consider that an insanely risky thing to do but his take on risk is very interesting. He talks about expanding his comfort zone through preparation so that what, at first seems high-risk, gradually seems less so. It's not about being reckless, but about taking what's in our control to mitigate risk. So, for him, at the time he finally climbed El Capitan, it didn't appear scary or high-risk because he had so thoroughly prepared himself to mitigate risks.
Here's a brief interview clip done after the documentary came out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5V0ZJQor9M
Can't recommend the documentary enough. Quite an extraordinary guy.
btw, I'm another who appreciates JFB's posts and think some of the criticisms were unnecessarily harsh.
cycling on public roads is more dangerous than what he's doing
have not looked up stats, but I'll guess more cyclists have been killed this year than all free solo climbers for forever
crazy because no one I know would ever try to free solo that peak, but most will venture out on the open rode on a bike
perceived threat to a bike rider is low but in reality, it's fairly high
09-03-19, 07:58 AM
#238
Bicyclerider4life
Yes, as those television ads for various Lawyers often state, "if you're in an accident with one of these big rigs (LAWYER is on top of the tractor trailer 18 wheeler talking to the camera) you're gonna get hurt..." Call us today if you've been injured or to bring a wrongful death suit.......we will make them pay for your suffering or for the untimely death of your loved one".................
Then they lose the case when the trucker's dash cam proves the guy who got hit did a "brake check" in front of the truck, swerved into the truck, or pulled out in front of it and got "T-Boned", or passed on the left when the truck is turning left, or rear ended the truck.
In short, the driver of the car is responsible for the accident roughly 99.8% of the time by doing something stupid.
They don't realize it takes longer to stop 80,000 pounds than it does their car. Or they are going for insurance fraud.
09-03-19, 08:05 AM
#239
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My own state sees between zero and 12 fatalities per year, according to the Missouri Highway Patrol. Given that there are 2 million Missourians who ride a bicycle in any given year and roughly 150,000 avid cyclists (riding weekly or more), that makes cycling reasonably safe.
If you review the statistics from the National safety Council, you'll see that even a 12 in 150,000, or 1 in 12,500 chance of dying is safer than a great many activities. You are more likely to die from choking, fire, or drowning.
There are risks to literally every minute of your day. There is no zero risk choice.
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09-03-19, 08:35 AM
#240
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yes, everything has risks, even eating at KFC. The comparison I was making is that this guy climbs mountains with no harnesses, which to most looks extremely dangerous, but a lot of people view bike riding as much safer than his activity when in fact it's not
"In 2015, 818 people lost their lives in bicycle/motor vehicle crashes, more than two people every day of the year in the U.S. This represents a 6 percent increase in bicyclist fatalities since 2006 and a 12.2 percent increase from the previous year(2014)."
https://www.outsideonline.com/239052...ommuter-deaths
"In 2015, 818 people lost their lives in bicycle/motor vehicle crashes, more than two people every day of the year in the U.S. This represents a 6 percent increase in bicyclist fatalities since 2006 and a 12.2 percent increase from the previous year(2014)."
https://www.outsideonline.com/239052...ommuter-deaths
Overview
There were 783 bicyclists killed in traffic crashes in the United States in 2017. As you might expect, when a crash occurs between a vehicle and a bike, it’s the cyclist who is most likely to be injured. In this section, you’ll learn bicycle safety tips and rules of the road, from properly fitting your helmet to driving defensively and predictably. You’ll also find educational material, resources for your community and more. Find out what you can do to prevent bicycle injuries and deaths, and remember: A large percentage of crashes can be avoided if motorists and cyclists follow the rules of the road and watch out for each other.
09-03-19, 08:48 AM
#241
Senior Member
yes, everything has risks, even eating at KFC. The comparison I was making is that this guy climbs mountains with no harnesses, which to most looks extremely dangerous, but a lot of people view bike riding as much safer than his activity when in fact it's not
"In 2015, 818 people lost their lives in bicycle/motor vehicle crashes, more than two people every day of the year in the U.S. This represents a 6 percent increase in bicyclist fatalities since 2006 and a 12.2 percent increase from the previous year(2014)."
https://www.outsideonline.com/239052...ommuter-deaths
"In 2015, 818 people lost their lives in bicycle/motor vehicle crashes, more than two people every day of the year in the U.S. This represents a 6 percent increase in bicyclist fatalities since 2006 and a 12.2 percent increase from the previous year(2014)."
https://www.outsideonline.com/239052...ommuter-deaths
Overview
There were 783 bicyclists killed in traffic crashes in the United States in 2017. As you might expect, when a crash occurs between a vehicle and a bike, it’s the cyclist who is most likely to be injured. In this section, you’ll learn bicycle safety tips and rules of the road, from properly fitting your helmet to driving defensively and predictably. You’ll also find educational material, resources for your community and more. Find out what you can do to prevent bicycle injuries and deaths, and remember: A large percentage of crashes can be avoided if motorists and cyclists follow the rules of the road and watch out for each other.Of the 783 cyclist deaths, how many were due to cyclists falling off their bicycles on their own? Probably zero. How many were caused by motorists, who were also the cause of 30,000 other motorist deaths each year?
09-03-19, 08:51 AM
#242
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[QUOTE=Flip Flop Rider;21105552]yes, everything has risks, even eating at KFC. The comparison I was making is that this guy climbs mountains with no harnesses, which to most looks extremely dangerous, but a lot of people view bike riding as much safer than his activity when in fact it's not
"In 2015, 818 people lost their lives in bicycle/motor vehicle crashes, more than two people every day of the year in the U.S...."
818 people in a nation of 335 million people. Given roughly 47.5 million people who ride a bike on a regular basis (https://www.statista.com/topics/1686/cycling/), that seems like a pretty low number if cycling is as dangerous as you suggest.
BB
"In 2015, 818 people lost their lives in bicycle/motor vehicle crashes, more than two people every day of the year in the U.S...."
818 people in a nation of 335 million people. Given roughly 47.5 million people who ride a bike on a regular basis (https://www.statista.com/topics/1686/cycling/), that seems like a pretty low number if cycling is as dangerous as you suggest.
BB
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09-03-19, 08:59 AM
#243
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[QUOTE=bbbean;21105586]
Unfortunately “regular basis” is not defined. Some would consider once a month to be “on a regular basis”.
Additionally, there is no estimate given as to what percentage of that riding is being done on the road with traffic, which is what the OP is concerned with.
yes, everything has risks, even eating at KFC. The comparison I was making is that this guy climbs mountains with no harnesses, which to most looks extremely dangerous, but a lot of people view bike riding as much safer than his activity when in fact it's not
"In 2015, 818 people lost their lives in bicycle/motor vehicle crashes, more than two people every day of the year in the U.S...."
818 people in a nation of 335 million people. Given roughly 47.5 million people who ride a bike on a regular basis (https://www.statista.com/topics/1686/cycling/), that seems like a pretty low number if cycling is as dangerous as you suggest.
BB
"In 2015, 818 people lost their lives in bicycle/motor vehicle crashes, more than two people every day of the year in the U.S...."
818 people in a nation of 335 million people. Given roughly 47.5 million people who ride a bike on a regular basis (https://www.statista.com/topics/1686/cycling/), that seems like a pretty low number if cycling is as dangerous as you suggest.
BB
Additionally, there is no estimate given as to what percentage of that riding is being done on the road with traffic, which is what the OP is concerned with.
09-03-19, 09:18 AM
#244
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[QUOTE=Kapusta;21105599]So cut the number. Even if we say that only 20% of all regular cyclists ride on the road, that's 818 deaths in 10 million riders. That's still a pretty reassuring number to me.
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09-03-19, 10:00 AM
#245
LBKA (formerly punkncat)
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In ten pages, I am pretty sure I am just repeating in some similar way what has already been said.
I cannot give a compelling argument for riding on the road, with cars, and not be seriously concerned about your safety. Much to my personal fitness' demise, I no longer feel comfortable riding on the open road and haven't for some time. Drivers are far too distracted, not only by regular life events, but the fact that so many of them are going down the road behind the wheel while they are actually trying to pay attention to their phone. The laws in place and the punishments being doled out for severely injuring or even killing a cyclist are this side of a joke.
Until such time that drivers education changes to some degree to START motorists with the idea that ALL (road worthy) vehicles belong on the road, in harmony and with due respect for a safe pass interaction, and until punishment for not abiding said becomes serious enough for people to care about a few seconds in their day....I will stick to the paths.
With that said...in particular arenas I have actually seen an increased awareness of cyclists and would say that by and large, particularly in and around the Atlanta area safety for cyclists has likely increased as compared to my youth. Out on the back roads, not so much. It's like a bunch of phone drunks running around. I am sure my age induced caution is a huge part of the change in my mindset.
I cannot give a compelling argument for riding on the road, with cars, and not be seriously concerned about your safety. Much to my personal fitness' demise, I no longer feel comfortable riding on the open road and haven't for some time. Drivers are far too distracted, not only by regular life events, but the fact that so many of them are going down the road behind the wheel while they are actually trying to pay attention to their phone. The laws in place and the punishments being doled out for severely injuring or even killing a cyclist are this side of a joke.
Until such time that drivers education changes to some degree to START motorists with the idea that ALL (road worthy) vehicles belong on the road, in harmony and with due respect for a safe pass interaction, and until punishment for not abiding said becomes serious enough for people to care about a few seconds in their day....I will stick to the paths.
With that said...in particular arenas I have actually seen an increased awareness of cyclists and would say that by and large, particularly in and around the Atlanta area safety for cyclists has likely increased as compared to my youth. Out on the back roads, not so much. It's like a bunch of phone drunks running around. I am sure my age induced caution is a huge part of the change in my mindset.
09-03-19, 01:16 PM
#246
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much respect to this young man, and have seen the film. the difference is that he is assuming the risk on his own. No way another climber or spectator will side swipe him or knock him off the mountain
cycling on public roads is more dangerous than what he's doing
have not looked up stats, but I'll guess more cyclists have been killed this year than all free solo climbers for forever
crazy because no one I know would ever try to free solo that peak, but most will venture out on the open rode on a bike
perceived threat to a bike rider is low but in reality, it's fairly high
cycling on public roads is more dangerous than what he's doing
have not looked up stats, but I'll guess more cyclists have been killed this year than all free solo climbers for forever
crazy because no one I know would ever try to free solo that peak, but most will venture out on the open rode on a bike
perceived threat to a bike rider is low but in reality, it's fairly high
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09-03-19, 01:41 PM
#247
Senior Member
More people die each year in a car in the United States than in an airplane world wide. But more people are afraid of flying than getting into a car.
So, yes, you should be afraid of dying on the road...if you're in a car.
So, yes, you should be afraid of dying on the road...if you're in a car.
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09-08-19, 07:34 PM
#248
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So far the mortality rate for life is 100%
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09-09-19, 12:09 AM
#249
Junior Member
Just be careful and enjoy!
The reason not to be scared? Simple. If you are terrified while riding, you aren't really living. If you go out with the attitude "this may be my last day on Earth so I am going to enjoy it to the max" you are fully alive. I do my best to be fully alive for the days I have left.
Ben
Ben
Again, be as careful as you can. That’s all you can control.
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