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Invasion of the E-bikes!

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Invasion of the E-bikes!

Old 10-12-19, 04:36 AM
  #151  
cyclebycle13
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Waiting to see what happens when someone riding one of those had their battery die. 50 lb bikes with no power assist must really suck.
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Old 10-12-19, 05:26 AM
  #152  
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Well, it's already been established that they get as much exercise as us "analog" riders. Should be no problem for them.
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Old 10-12-19, 06:35 AM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
I think maybe 100 or so on the flats and upwards of 350 for short hills. I have a bridge with a 5%, 1.3km hill and the wheel adds 300-400 on that hill but I doubt it could sustain that power much longer than a couple of minutes. For me, it 'flattens' the hills so my power output tends to be steadier than if I'm riding without it. Normally, I would go maybe 50% harder on the hills.
Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
Well, it's already been established that they get as much exercise as us "analog" riders. Should be no problem for them.
I can't tell if Lemond is being facetious or not, but Greg hits it on the head. 100w is the difference between riding hard on a flat and taking it easy at a regular, non-sprinting pace. 300-400 is about what you'll put out cranking up a hill, and even spinning up 5% will be 200w+. So where is the exercise they are getting? When I was on the trainer yesterday I was doing 70w on a warm up, basically just spinning my legs. If that's what you put out to engage the throttle you aren't getting much exercise beyond soft pedaling around the park. Yes, they get some exercise, but no more than a spin around the park.
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Old 10-12-19, 07:08 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by zacster View Post
I can't tell if Lemond is being facetious or not, but Greg hits it on the head. 100w is the difference between riding hard on a flat and taking it easy at a regular, non-sprinting pace. 300-400 is about what you'll put out cranking up a hill, and even spinning up 5% will be 200w+. So where is the exercise they are getting? When I was on the trainer yesterday I was doing 70w on a warm up, basically just spinning my legs. If that's what you put out to engage the throttle you aren't getting much exercise beyond soft pedaling around the park. Yes, they get some exercise, but no more than a spin around the park.
Yeah, I have my doubts about the quality of exercise. Even without any assist I think people don't push a lot of watts, I think untrained people naturally do under 100w, so if unassisted they were doing 180-270kj in an hour (assuming 50-75w, my wife can't even keep up with me when I'm doing 100w on the bike path), then it's even less with an e-bike.

Purely anecdotal, but there's a guy in my neighborhood riding a e-bike and happens to be overweight as well, I don't think I've ever actually seen him pedaling, even on the flat. I have no clue whether he has a physical limitation or not, but if he doesn't, he probably would do a lot better and get in better shape riding under his own strength. I think the thing with e-bikes is that they'll enable a lot of people who are otherwise healthy and capable to get even less of a workout with bikes.
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Old 10-12-19, 07:42 AM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by cyclebycle13 View Post
Waiting to see what happens when someone riding one of those had their battery die. 50 lb bikes with no power assist must really suck.
Having ridden 1000s of miles on 55-60 pound touring bikes I think the problem would be gearing if there are hills to be climbed with a dead battery.
For the bikes with the motor in the BB area, the motor may add some drag when the battery is off.
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Old 10-12-19, 10:10 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by hubcyclist View Post
Yeah, I have my doubts about the quality of exercise. Even without any assist I think people don't push a lot of watts, I think untrained people naturally do under 100w, so if unassisted they were doing 180-270kj in an hour (assuming 50-75w, my wife can't even keep up with me when I'm doing 100w on the bike path), then it's even less with an e-bike.

Purely anecdotal, but there's a guy in my neighborhood riding a e-bike and happens to be overweight as well, I don't think I've ever actually seen him pedaling, even on the flat. I have no clue whether he has a physical limitation or not, but if he doesn't, he probably would do a lot better and get in better shape riding under his own strength. I think the thing with e-bikes is that they'll enable a lot of people who are otherwise healthy and capable to get even less of a workout with bikes.
You should tell him this. Tell him to eat less, and start going to a gym too.
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Old 10-13-19, 04:58 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I love it . . . "Swagtron!"
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Old 10-13-19, 08:04 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
I live in seattle, including e-bike bike shares I'd estimate ~10% of people are now on ebikes, from everything to low powered casual cruisers that help people get up hills to cargo e-bikes with kid seats to full on essentially electric mopeds. I'm a racer and in relatively good shape(top 5% for most notable strava segments in the area) and I get passed by all manner of e-bikes. You just get used to it, and I certainly don't hold it against them. The more the merrier as far as I'm concerned even if some of them lack the skill and etiquette that usually takes a long time to develop to operate in mixed traffic at the speed they do.
I live in Seattle also, and for many it is the only reasonable way to get to work if your job is downtown. I have a friend that works at Facebook downtown but lives in White Center, which I think is a 10 mile distance. It would take him over forty minutes to drive not including finding parking and the bus system even longer. He puts his bike on high and hits the door to his office in around 35 minutes.
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Old 10-14-19, 07:17 AM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by hubcyclist View Post
(assuming 50-75w, my wife can't even keep up with me when I'm doing 100w on the bike path), then it's even less with an e-bike.
It's funny, that was exactly what I was thinking as I wrote my post.
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Old 10-14-19, 11:42 AM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by Elvo View Post
Us ebikers refer to everyone else as dino bikes, acoustic bikes, or people in clown suits
As an efficient means of transportation, E-bikes are great, especially to replace a car. But...
- You lose the fitness factor. We're an obese nation because people in the suburbs drive a car to the corner market. People in urban areas who walk more often are in better shape (and now that air quality is better in cities than 50 years ago).
- I live in a walkup apartment, no elevator. The weight of an E-bike is out of the question.
- I live in an urban area and bike theft is a major problem. You can't haul a fat enough chain to defend against the attack methods employed these days. Thus, I ride a folder, usually I can wheel the bike inside businesses, but those I can't, I fold the bike and carry it in, or if I cannot do that, patronize a competing business. E-bikes generally are left chained outside, where they are prime targets of thieves, and prized; They're worth thousands, and the resale market for them is huge.

If my health gets worse and I need an E-bike, it will be a 20" folder, with a battery that comes out super fast and easy, to toss in my backpack while going up and down stairs; My limitation is the weight that my hands can carry.
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Old 10-14-19, 11:46 AM
  #161  
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Me too!!!
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Old 10-14-19, 11:52 AM
  #162  
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If I was excused from paying all taxes for buying one of these, I'd be on board for that. Probably wouldn't ride it though.

They need to come out with gigantic tax incentives for people buying ebikes, similar to electric cars and solar panels, and the bike industry will have a boom on their hands like no one has seen since ... the Tesla. My other idea is that the govt can subsidize them for people on Medicare, like with the electric power chairs and back braces, and pretty soon they'll be everywhere.
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Old 10-14-19, 11:53 AM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post
I live in Seattle also, and for many it is the only reasonable way to get to work if your job is downtown. I have a friend that works at Facebook downtown but lives in White Center, which I think is a 10 mile distance. It would take him over forty minutes to drive not including finding parking and the bus system even longer. He puts his bike on high and hits the door to his office in around 35 minutes.
When powerful E-bikes were less common maybe 4 or 5 years back, a friend built up an E-bike for his wife to commute from north Seattle to Renton and back. He built it on a downhill race bike frame; "You can drop it off a three-story building and it'll be fine." The downside is that it's not legal on the freeway, so she has to take side roads all the way down and back. That might seem safer due to slower speeds, but it's a lot more stop-and-go, which places her more at risk for getting rear-ended at a stoplight. But if she needed it, there are now electric motorcycles which are freeway legal.
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Old 10-14-19, 12:13 PM
  #164  
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Thanks for your perspective FlashBazbo. I live in Los Angeles and would gladly use my e bike for commute. Traffic is the worst. I would imagine the 20 or 30 somethings ride them as they do not own cars and are sensitive to their carbon footprint. There are LBS that are dedicated to only selling e bikes in CA. They are becoming very popular.
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Old 10-14-19, 12:26 PM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch View Post
- You lose the fitness factor. We're an obese nation because people in the suburbs drive a car to the corner market. People in urban areas who walk more often are in better shape (and now that air quality is better in cities than 50 years ago).
- I live in a walkup apartment, no elevator. The weight of an E-bike is out of the question.
The irony in the contradiction here made my lol. People don't get enough exercise (and road cyclists are especially prone to osteoporosis) and I refuse to lift a weight!
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Old 10-14-19, 12:31 PM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch View Post

If my health gets worse and I need an E-bike, it will be a 20" folder, with a battery that comes out super fast and easy, to toss in my backpack while going up and down stairs; My limitation is the weight that my hands can carry.
Lots of choices out there for hub motor folding ebikes in the $1000 to $1500 range - Chinese electrical components, 7 speed, racks, lights, etc.

The one below weighs 48# and puts out about 40 Nm of torque - pretty good for a hub motor - starts at $1299 - supposedly it's stable enough to sit on like a chair when it is folded. 20 to 60 miles on a charge. Batteries are in the seat tube. https://electricbikereview.com/qualisports/dolphin/

If you need more torque then a name brand mid-mount motor set-up (Bosch, Yamaha, Brose, Shimano) starts at around $2500.


Last edited by jlaw; 10-14-19 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 10-14-19, 12:47 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by jlaw View Post
Lots of choices out there for hub motor folding ebikes in the $1000 to $1500 range - Chinese electrical components, 7 speed, racks, lights, etc.

The one below weighs 48# and puts out about 40 Nm of torque - pretty good for a hub motor - starts at $1299 - supposedly it's stable enough to sit on like a chair when it is folded. 20 to 60 miles on a charge. https://electricbikereview.com/qualisports/dolphin/

If you need more torque then a name brand mid-mount motor set-up (Bosch, Yamaha, Brose, Shimano) starts at around $2500.

For those of us of a certain age . . . that looks an awful lot like a pedal-powered Honda CT70!
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Old 10-14-19, 12:50 PM
  #168  
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Yes - and at least as much fun!
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Old 10-14-19, 12:51 PM
  #169  
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e-bikes may be great for geezers, people with physical limitations, and girlie men but they should all be identifiable so we don't chase after them.
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Old 10-14-19, 12:56 PM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by myisland View Post
e-bikes may be great for geezers, people with physical limitations, and girlie men but they should all be identifiable so we don't chase after them.
I think you'd know pretty quickly if you were trying to chase an ebike!
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Old 10-14-19, 12:59 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
Funny experience this weekend. In our area, I'm not sure any of us had ever seen an e-bike. But this weekend, a bunch of us traveled to a very nice organized ride through the Sequatchie Valley of Tennessee. GREAT place to ride.

One of the surprises was the number of e-bikes participating. Again, none of us had ever seen one in the wild, so it was a bit of a curiosity. No big deal. Not offended in any way. Just different. Until . . . one of our crew was having a rough day. We came up on one of the steeper climbs and he was having a hard time hanging with the group. A couple of us accelerated around a couple other bikes on the climb but, before the guy having a rough day could get around them, they accelerated away from him. It seemed effortless . . . and it blew his mind. As if he weren't having a hard enough time, this just buried him. He's not accustomed to being dropped on climbs. (He didn't realize they were on e-bikes.)

Eventually, about 10 miles later, he passed the e-bikes on a flat portion and realized they were e-bikes. He's no luddite, but after being dropped by them (thinking they were regular bikes), let's just say he didn't express appreciation for the type.

Again -- I'm not offended by people using e-bikes. But I was pretty surprised so many of them showed up for an organized metric+ bike ride. None of those riding them were geezers. In fact, most appeared to be in their 20's or early 30's. It definitely challenged my presuppositions about who uses e-bikes and how they use them.
I am 73 and climbing is a bear for me. I love riding and would encourage any and every one to take it up, but, also not being a luddite, I just find ebikes to be a type of cheat. I can see maybe some really old dudes or ladies and maybe someone with a disability, but for a healthy man or woman, if you are going to ride a bike, ride a bike, not some power contraption.
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Old 10-14-19, 01:00 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
Funny experience this weekend. In our area, I'm not sure any of us had ever seen an e-bike. But this weekend, a bunch of us traveled to a very nice organized ride through the Sequatchie Valley of Tennessee. GREAT place to ride.

One of the surprises was the number of e-bikes participating. Again, none of us had ever seen one in the wild, so it was a bit of a curiosity. No big deal. Not offended in any way. Just different. Until . . . one of our crew was having a rough day. We came up on one of the steeper climbs and he was having a hard time hanging with the group. A couple of us accelerated around a couple other bikes on the climb but, before the guy having a rough day could get around them, they accelerated away from him. It seemed effortless . . . and it blew his mind. As if he weren't having a hard enough time, this just buried him. He's not accustomed to being dropped on climbs. (He didn't realize they were on e-bikes.)

Eventually, about 10 miles later, he passed the e-bikes on a flat portion and realized they were e-bikes. He's no luddite, but after being dropped by them (thinking they were regular bikes), let's just say he didn't express appreciation for the type.

Again -- I'm not offended by people using e-bikes. But I was pretty surprised so many of them showed up for an organized metric+ bike ride. None of those riding them were geezers. In fact, most appeared to be in their 20's or early 30's. It definitely challenged my presuppositions about who uses e-bikes and how they use them.
I am a pretty strong rider for my age and I work hard to stay fit. I am 74. I ride a conventional bike. A mid 80's Medici. I tell folks it is a retro bike for a retro rider. There will however come a day when I will want an E bike because that is what it will take to keep me in the game. In my mind and E assist bike where I still have to work will keep me off the couch.
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Old 10-14-19, 01:02 PM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by myisland View Post
e-bikes may be great for geezers, people with physical limitations, and girlie men but they should all be identifiable so we don't chase after them.
Sorta like orange tips on the barrels of toy guns?

I think the solution to make them identifiable, would be to force any ebike built to conform to really strict safety standards, so strict, that they would take any sort of fun out of riding one. Crash bars, speed governors, heavy wheels and tires, extremely lame handling.

And then license riders, charge them registration fees for their "ebikes", and require mandatory liability insurance. Maybe also force riders to wear full face helmets, since they aren't pedaling (very much) anyway.
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Old 10-14-19, 01:04 PM
  #174  
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Ebikers should not be allowed to hold records in categories with regular bikes. I have nothing against them, but don't compare my 73 year old lungs and legs to some machine. Just saying.........
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Old 10-14-19, 01:15 PM
  #175  
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e-recovery!

E-bikes can be a wonderful recovery tool. I'm 75, and had spinal surgery 18 months ago, so my Madone was (at least temporarily) out of reach for me. After a couple of months of walking to build up strength again, I bought Trek Dual Sport to help with the transition back to a bike. What a joy - I could ride again, and could adjust the electric assist to whatever level I needed - especially on the ride back home. This summer I got back on the road bike. But as my age increases, I find that my motor isn't quite as strong. I expect that ebikes will allow me to keep riding many more years. I'm thinking now of a new e-Domane. Gotta have a new toy!
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