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Informal Reviews on Track Wheels

Old 01-02-19, 10:05 PM
  #201  
taras0000
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Originally Posted by Super D View Post
So here's a bit of a perhaps unanswerable question...If all other elements are equal, who makes the fastest-rolling HUBS?

The follow-up to that is, has anyone tested track hubs fairly, eliminating variables and narrowing performance down to the hubs themselves?

I now have wheels with Mavic track hubs, Zipp track hubs, DA track hubs, FFWD track hubs and Onyx track hubs...curious to know which would actually roll the best----if all other elements were equal.

I bring this up, because in my experiences with road wheels, those with DA hubs seem to roll better/faster than anything else I've owned. Not standing up for DA as the best, but sharing empirical evidence (I generally seem to coast faster than most riders around me since switching to wheels with DA hubs. I didn't change anything else, so I'm thinking the hubs must be a factor.)
As a broadly generic statement, anything with cup and cone will be faster than a cartridge bearing. Cup and cone also makes it easy to change/test/use different lubricants instead of just the factory grease. Grease does break down over time, so any sealed bearing will not just degrade lubrication wise, but as it wears, it cannot be cleaned, leading to further degradation. Whether this is measurable or important to you is up to you. My old race wheels (Zipp 440 rims to DA hubs) were kept squeaky clean and I lubricated with oil. I COULD tell there was a difference. Whether or not that gave me a measurable gain I was never able to figure out, but psychologically, it felt better.
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Old 01-03-19, 05:05 AM
  #202  
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I agree with Taras. I've never seen a study on track hubs particularly, but in general you just have a lot more adjustment that can be made (tuning) with cup/cone systems.
Experimenting with fill rate and lubrication choice is where the (albeit generally small relatively) gains can be made.

In cartridge bearings it's harder to tease out better friction but it can be done. The biggest contributor of drag is the seals. For a track specific wheel (that means, only on a clean surface and no rain/water to deal with) you can remove the inner/outer seal (or just the outer seal if you don't want to remove/service/replace bearings fairly regularly) and that should be the biggest single gain you can do. After that, again fill rate (and the specific type of grease/lubrication) is the next most likely place to see gains. In my experience, ~50% fill with Ceramic Speeds TT grease has been best (supported by the old frictionfacts document)
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Old 01-03-19, 08:38 AM
  #203  
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Also, if tuning hubs that have cartridge bearings, remember that there are sealed, shielded, and unshielded variants in each size. Sealed has more dragthan shielded, which has more drag than unshielded. If ordering from a bearing wholesaler, you can also get "one side sealed", "one side sealed, one shielded", ...

You just have to do some digging through their catalogs to find exactly what you want. This is a good site to learn about different types and the nomenclature system in place to identify them.
https://www.astbearings.com/radial-ball-bearing-nomenclature-and-numbering-system.html

Pro Tip: when installing bearings, face the labelled side outward so that you can identify the bearing without having to remove it.

Last edited by taras0000; 01-03-19 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 06-25-19, 05:31 PM
  #204  
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Looking for a review or experience with Miche Supertype SPX5 track wheelset please, anyone used them, tried them out, know someone that has used them and had some comments, thanks!
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Old 11-20-19, 08:46 PM
  #205  
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Hi guys, need some advice on what wheels I should get, my stock wheels miche pistard has a crack in the rim and need replacing.

I am about 90kg, new to velodrome racing, and planning on enter some events such as 250m and 500m TT, scratch and pursuit races. All my training and racing will be done indoor. My budget is 900usd max, I dont necessarily want to spend so much, but if it will make a big difference to my speed, I dont mind doing it.

The wheels I have in mind are:
Velocity Deep V with Formula Hubs. 209usd +100usd shipping (I live in Hong Kong)

Mavic Ellipse. 330usd Including Free Shipping.

FFWD F9T. 880usd Including Free Shipping.

I am leaning towards the first two options since they are much cheaper and from what I read expensive wheels are faster but not a huge difference that will affect the outcome in beginner races. I like the velocity wheelset since they used standard spokes and easier to repair etc. But the mavic is only 20 dollars more expensive and seems to offer better performance? What do you guys think I should get? And are there any wheelset that you think will be a good fit for me?

Thanks in advance
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Old 11-20-19, 09:48 PM
  #206  
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You could just replace the rim on your Miche Pistard wheel. I would say that wheelset is basically the same performance wise at the first two alternatives you listed. Take the money you saved and put it in a box until you have enough for a nice rear disc and fast front wheel.
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Old 11-21-19, 01:59 AM
  #207  
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Yeah $900 in the uk would comfortably allow you to fix the rim and pick up a FFWD rear wheel second hand with plenty of cash to spare
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Old 11-21-19, 04:33 AM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
You could just replace the rim on your Miche Pistard wheel. I would say that wheelset is basically the same performance wise at the first two alternatives you listed. Take the money you saved and put it in a box until you have enough for a nice rear disc and fast front wheel.
Originally Posted by ruudlaff View Post
Yeah $900 in the uk would comfortably allow you to fix the rim and pick up a FFWD rear wheel second hand with plenty of cash to spare
Thanks for your feedback guys, I live in Hong Kong so fixing the rear wheel is going to costs over 100usd I imagine (rim + shipping + labour). For around 190 usd, I can get another pair of Miche Pistard, so I think I will pay the extra and do that instead. Should I get tubulars or clincher version (The ones I have now are clincher) given I only ride indoor on a wooden track?
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Old 11-21-19, 05:43 AM
  #209  
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Tubulars for sure.
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Old 11-21-19, 10:12 AM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Tubulars for sure.
I agree with tubulars but if you have a flat (I have witnessed tubulars blowing up in the infield, but not on the track) you will need backup wheels.
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Old 11-21-19, 05:00 PM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by 700wheel View Post
I agree with tubulars but if you have a flat (I have witnessed tubulars blowing up in the infield, but not on the track) you will need backup wheels.
True. All the more reason to be a friendly approachable person at the track! Friends will lend wheels (cogs, chainrings, tools, etc.) to friends in need, I find. And really, I've had a tubie blow exactly once in more than 10 years of track racing (touch wood), so I don't feel the advantages of a quick-changing clincher really outweigh the safety benefits of tubulars.

But clinchers work too.
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Old 11-21-19, 09:29 PM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Tubulars for sure.
Originally Posted by 700wheel View Post
I agree with tubulars but if you have a flat (I have witnessed tubulars blowing up in the infield, but not on the track) you will need backup wheels.
Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
True. All the more reason to be a friendly approachable person at the track! Friends will lend wheels (cogs, chainrings, tools, etc.) to friends in need, I find. And really, I've had a tubie blow exactly once in more than 10 years of track racing (touch wood), so I don't feel the advantages of a quick-changing clincher really outweigh the safety benefits of tubulars.

But clinchers work too.
Thanks very much for the recommendations, i have ordered the tubular version of miche pistard. Will save up money like you guys suggested and get some really good wheels when I get good enough
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Old 11-22-19, 07:18 AM
  #213  
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And make sure you glue them thoroughly.
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Old 11-22-19, 03:21 PM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
And make sure you glue them thoroughly.
One thing I would bet good money on - that it takes a razor blade and maybe a pry bar to ever get one of your tubulars off now.

Are you back on the track yet?
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Old 11-23-19, 05:08 AM
  #215  
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Originally Posted by Morelock View Post
One thing I would bet good money on - that it takes a razor blade and maybe a pry bar to ever get one of your tubulars off now.

Are you back on the track yet?
I'm riding again, but I haven't made it back down to the track yet. The weather has not cooperated as much as I'd like.
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Old 11-23-19, 05:09 AM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by Morelock View Post
One thing I would bet good money on - that it takes a razor blade and maybe a pry bar to ever get one of your tubulars off now.

Are you back on the track yet?
I'm riding again, but I haven't made it back down to the track yet. The weather has not cooperated as much as I'd like.
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Old 11-23-19, 11:28 PM
  #217  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
And make sure you glue them thoroughly.
I will ask my LBS to do that, I haven't used tubulars before, don't want to do it wrong. Thanks!!
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Old 11-25-19, 03:21 PM
  #218  
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Originally Posted by mling1985 View Post
I will ask my LBS to do that, I haven't used tubulars before, don't want to do it wrong. Thanks!!
Assert that you do not want them taped. I dropped my disc off at a shop in Portland and said several times, “I want the tire glued on.”

A week later, I pick it up and they had taped it, “Because it was the same thing and so much easier.” I was pissed and never went back.
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Old 11-25-19, 06:10 PM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Assert that you do not want them taped. I dropped my disc off at a shop in Portland and said several times, “I want the tire glued on.”

A week later, I pick it up and they had taped it, “Because it was the same thing and so much easier.” I was pissed and never went back.
Also, doing it yourself is not rocket science. There are many great tutorials on YouTube to help.
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Old 11-26-19, 07:24 AM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Also, doing it yourself is not rocket science. There are many great tutorials on YouTube to help.
I agree.

It's something that I regret not learning to do early on. I think I was pretty skilled at fully maintaining all sorts of geared, single speed, or track bikes...except for 2 things: Building wheels and gluing tubulars.

On a related note: I was in a conversation with a gentleman who runs a tennis center in the Atlanta area and were talking about how difficult (or not) stringing racquets is. (back story: His 2 sons went to D1 colleges on tennis scholarships.) He's like, "When my boys were poppin' strings every week, I was like, 'nooooo. I'm not doing it and I'm certainly not gonna pay someone to do it.', I taught them how to string their own racquets when they were 10 years old...they strung mine, too "

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Old 11-26-19, 08:39 AM
  #221  
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the only small thing I'd add to the good advice above is whether you pay to have it done, or you diy it off youtube videos... keep in mind that a lot of mechanics use different amounts/styles of gluing.
If you are diy'ing, I'd start on the cautious side of more is better. If you are having a shop do it, explain that it's for track and they REALLY need a good bond.
I've glued a lot of tires for Time Trials on the road that I would NEVER use on a track.

I have to cut my old tires off... and if I thought I could get away with it without ruining the rim, I'd epoxy my tires on
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Old 11-27-19, 12:50 AM
  #222  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Assert that you do not want them taped. I dropped my disc off at a shop in Portland and said several times, “I want the tire glued on.”

A week later, I pick it up and they had taped it, “Because it was the same thing and so much easier.” I was pissed and never went back.
Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Also, doing it yourself is not rocket science. There are many great tutorials on YouTube to help.
Originally Posted by Morelock View Post
the only small thing I'd add to the good advice above is whether you pay to have it done, or you diy it off youtube videos... keep in mind that a lot of mechanics use different amounts/styles of gluing.
If you are diy'ing, I'd start on the cautious side of more is better. If you are having a shop do it, explain that it's for track and they REALLY need a good bond.
I've glued a lot of tires for Time Trials on the road that I would NEVER use on a track.

I have to cut my old tires off... and if I thought I could get away with it without ruining the rim, I'd epoxy my tires on
Thanks for the advice guys! I am good friends with the guy at the LBS and he is a good guy. I told my LBS it is for track use and he said he has done it before and will be using a lot of glue and will take a few days.

I am going to learn how to do it myself next time I change the tires
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