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Asian Serial Number Guide

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Asian Serial Number Guide

Old 08-21-19, 07:51 AM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by gryclyne View Post
T-Mar,Just discovered this thread (after reading the one on the Steve Bauer Mystery Bike), and I'm intrigued. I have several SB's, so I tried to confirm their dates of manufacture using their serial numbers. Not sure the guide works for them, though. Like the gentleman up-thread with the SB Whistler, mine have SN's that start with two capital letters, followed by 5 numbers. That doesn't seem to fit the Yamaguchi system suggested for them, as it starts out with letter-number-letter. The ones that do appear to correspond (during the mid-80's) to the SB sequence look to be those of Fuji, Kawamura, Maruishi, Miyata and Tsunoda - but of them, only Maruishi's produced dates that make sense.
Specifically, mine have SN's that start with either F (like both the Whistler's and the SB Mystery Bike's) or G; followed by either H, N or S. Assuming the second letter refers to a fortnight, Mariushi's system would give them dates ranging from April '86 to April '87 - certainly a period compatible with their colour schemes. Do you think Maruishi could have been the (or a) builder of early SB frames? Or have I muffed something? Thanks so much, BTW, for putting together and sharing all this info!
While we've definitely seen Yamaguchi manufactured Steve Bauer, that doesn't mean they were the only contractor. The guide is a dynamic process and I am adding new sources on a fairly regular basis,. as they surface and are identified. Yes, I saw the bicycles you mentioned and Maruishi is definitely one possibility. Unfortunately, Steve Bauer don't surface very often and I have few samples in the database. It you want to submit your serial numbers and pictures, that may increase my confidence in Maruishi being a contractor for the brand.
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Old 08-23-19, 07:49 PM
  #177  
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T-Mar - Tried responding with pix, but they wound up in the gallery, without my message appearing at all (??). I presume you can find them though, and I hope they help! (I do find it curious that two of them have the NS on the BB, but the third is on the seat tube. It'd make you think a different company made it - yet the SN's all follow the same letter-number pattern...)
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Old 08-24-19, 06:45 AM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by gryclyne View Post
T-Mar - Tried responding with pix, but they wound up in the gallery, without my message appearing at all (??). I presume you can find them though, and I hope they help! (I do find it curious that two of them have the NS on the BB, but the third is on the seat tube. It'd make you think a different company made it - yet the SN's all follow the same letter-number pattern...)
It's normal for pictures to default to a gallery album under the member's forum ID, when the member has less then 10 posts. I regularly refer there for picttures from new members. However, in this case I can't find your pictures. They should be less than a day old and near the front but I don't see an album with your forum ID. Regardless, since your next post will be your 10th, you should be able to attach pictures to your post.
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Old 08-24-19, 08:53 AM
  #179  
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Hmm...I can get to them by going to the gallery and clicking on "My Pictures" - but I don't actually see how one goes about finding someone else's.
I'll re-post.
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Old 08-24-19, 09:06 AM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by gryclyne View Post
Hmm...I can get to them by going to the gallery and clicking on "My Pictures" - but I don't actually see how one goes about finding someone else's.
I'll re-post.
All the pics, even those for members with less than 10 posts, should be here https://www.bikeforums.net/g/albums
However, there might be restriction on new members viewing other members albums. I'm not sure. Regardless, it's a moot point now that you've achieved 10 posts.

Last edited by T-Mar; 08-24-19 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 08-24-19, 02:18 PM
  #181  
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F to B: Mistral (CrMo 4130); Sirocco, Chinook (both Tange 900); Cyclone (Ishiwata 022)


Mistral


Chinook


Cyclone

Voilà (I hope!)
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Old 08-24-19, 02:53 PM
  #182  
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Based on the liveries, they are all 1986-1987 models. This raises my confidence in Maruishi being the manufacturer but what escalates to the matter to "almost certainty" cataegory is the tubing decal of the Mistral. The layout is suspiciously reminiscent of the generic tubing decals applied to Maruishi models of the mid-1980s. Similar decals are also seen on Maruishi manufactured Nashbar bicycles of this era.

It was fairly common for marketing brands such as Steve Bauer to use multiple contractors. They were always looking for the best balance between price, workmanship and materials, so contractors could change from year to year and often their were different sources for different levels of bicycles. Based on your collection, it would appear that Maruishi was the prime source for at least the entry level and lower mid-range models during 1986-1987.

Based on the serial numbers, the Mistral and Chinook should be 1986 models, while the Cyclone should be a 1987 model manufactured in late 1986. I've seen cases where manufacturers have changed the serial number location each time they rolled over the serial number sequence and some who used alternate locations depending on the customer, but neither case would seem to fit your bicycles.

Thxs for posting. However, if you want to survive on the forum without being constantly called out, you'll have to learn to post photos taken from the drive side, so that the drive train components are are more visible.
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Old 08-24-19, 05:34 PM
  #183  
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Thx for the info, T-Mar - and the tip. Just posted some shots of my ''new'' SB on the ''Mystery Steve Bauer'' thread. Hope I got it right!
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Old 08-26-19, 08:43 AM
  #184  
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MMMmm..I got an 80's Sears road bike, I guessed it was an FS10, but none of your numbers are near those on my bike, for instance, mine doesn't have any letter codes, but an 8 serial number whose first 3 numbers are "702" followed by a "489" underneath followed by a dot and another 6 numbers... any ideas who would have made this, and dates?

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Old 08-26-19, 10:04 AM
  #185  
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Here it is! I need to descipher this code from my old Sears Free Spirit..
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Old 08-29-19, 09:22 AM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by gryclyne View Post
Just posted some shots of my ''new'' SB on the ''Mystery Steve Bauer'' thread.
For your data bank, the SN is GH72779
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Old 10-02-19, 05:07 PM
  #187  
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I can contribute with two serial-numbers, I recently bought a Miki Sakai bike, branded Fåglum! It has a Miki Sakai-sticker and the serial-number M2C07685, which would make it a 1982. Dura Ace AX seatpost, steer and breaks. Gears and crankset are 600AX.

Gösta and Erik Fåglum, two out of the four brothers that dominated the Swedish cycling in the 1960's and 70's, supposedly put the wheels of the bike together. One of the brothers was a front-figure of some kind of the Mizutani-bikes (it was earlier called Seraph) in Sweden, for a short while. I read somewhere that he also ran a shop selling branded bikes but my clues kind of end there.

I can't add images in this post since I haven't posted ten times yet, but they are in the gallery bikeforums(dot)net/g/album/15021556
Any clues around this frame would be of great interest to me!

I also have my modified Koga Miyata RoadSpeed where the headbadge only says 'Miyata'. Serialnumber F510237, making it a 1977. I could find it in the 1978 catalogue. Any info on this frame is of course also welcome, even if it's not as big of an enigma to me as the Fåglum one.

Also, Thank you T-Mar! I have learnt so much by reading your posts and replies over the years and it has inspired me to find out even more about my bikes. Internet wouldn't be the same without you

Last edited by atayim; 10-02-19 at 05:08 PM. Reason: missed a comma...
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Old 10-05-19, 08:25 AM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by atayim View Post
I can contribute with two serial-numbers, I recently bought a Miki Sakai bike, branded Fåglum! It has a Miki Sakai-sticker and the serial-number M2C07685, which would make it a 1982. Dura Ace AX seatpost, steer and breaks. Gears and crankset are 600AX.

Gösta and Erik Fåglum, two out of the four brothers that dominated the Swedish cycling in the 1960's and 70's, supposedly put the wheels of the bike together. One of the brothers was a front-figure of some kind of the Mizutani-bikes (it was earlier called Seraph) in Sweden, for a short while. I read somewhere that he also ran a shop selling branded bikes but my clues kind of end there.

I can't add images in this post since I haven't posted ten times yet, but they are in the gallery bikeforums(dot)net/g/album/15021556
Any clues around this frame would be of great interest to me!

I also have my modified Koga Miyata RoadSpeed where the headbadge only says 'Miyata'. Serialnumber F510237, making it a 1977. I could find it in the 1978 catalogue. Any info on this frame is of course also welcome, even if it's not as big of an enigma to me as the Fåglum one.

Also, Thank you T-Mar! I have learnt so much by reading your posts and replies over the years and it has inspired me to find out even more about my bikes. Internet wouldn't be the same without you
Thank-you for the contributions. I know nothing of the Fåglum brand and only a little about the Fåglum Pettersson brothers and Mizutani. I know the four brothers were one of the top TT teams of the era and that Gosta won the Giro d'Italia in the early 1970s. Mizutani and the sister brand, Seraph, were both available in America during the early 1970s bicycle boom but had a relatively small presence. The company traces it roots back to 1924 and the factories were destroyed in the war. Circa 1947-1948 a new company was established and it still exists today, though the name has changed to an Anglicized version. The current company is primarily an importer and distributor of bicycles, parts and accessories, though they still offer the Seraph brand.

In America, Miki is best known as one of the contractors of the Centurion, Sekai and Specialized brands. During the period in question, they were considered one of the better Japanese contract manufacturers of mid-range and higher grade bicycles. I've seen quite a few early aero frames but offhand I can't recall one like this. Generally, the down and seat tubes are either aero along their full lengths or aero in the middle with round ends, to allow the use of standard lugs and clamp style front derailleurs. Your frame appears to have down and seat tubes that are aero at the top and middle but round at the bottom bracket end. If so, this is an interesting compromise that would result in both good aerodynamics and a stiff bottom bracket. I guess I shouldn't be surprised to see such a novel solution coming from a family of TT specialists!

While the Koga-Miyata may have a 1977 serial number, it is relatively high, so it could very well be a 1978 model manufactured in late 1977. The one thing I find interesting is that we have had some other submissions from Sweden that were Miyata and not Koga-Miyata. The bicycles didn't match the American Miyata models or the Koga-Miyata models. The owner was of the understanding that the there was a Swedish company designing and importing Miyata bicycles from Japan and not through Koga-Miyata. Of course, maybe I'm erroneous in assuming that you in Sweden based on the Fåglum.

Regardless, thank-you again for the submissions. I'll add Fåglum to the list. BTW, I saw what you did with your forum name.
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Old 10-19-19, 03:42 AM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The bicycles didn't match the American Miyata models or the Koga-Miyata models. The owner was of the understanding that the there was a Swedish company designing and importing Miyata bicycles from Japan and not through Koga-Miyata. Of course, maybe I'm erroneous in assuming that you in Sweden based on the Fåglum.
I am from Sweden so that is correct, but the Miyata is actually from the Netherlands where I lived some ten years ago! I read somewhere that very early Koga-Miyatas came with Miyata headbadges. I found from cykelhobby(dot)se that Miyata was actually imported to Sweden by Sjöstrand Bike Company in Gothenburg.

Anyway, sorry for my complete silence, I have had a few super-busy weeks... I did however reach out to the store that Erik Fåglum had back in the days as well as a museum in that area, to see if there is any more info to get.

Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The company traces it roots back to 1924 and the factories were destroyed in the war. Circa 1947-1948 a new company was established and it still exists today, though the name has changed to an Anglicized version.
Interesting! I just read about Tsunoda and Mizutani, and that Tsunoda made bikes under different names, amongst four: T.U. Did you mean that Seraph was the Anglicized name?

Any way, I did find some clues!
Quoting a different thread with a similar question on this forum, bikeforums(dot)net/16581528-post24(dot)html
Originally Posted by Hummer View Post
Each Miki customer would have given Miki their own specifications. [...] So I assume these were specified by the brand name distributor. I could not even guess which brand name and model it might be."
So of course I found this frame in a Swedish fixie-forum! farm4.static.flickr(dot)com/3548/3459877930_1e77b6b562_z(dot)jpg
I didn't get a reply from the owner yet, so not any closer to understanding what the frame is, if it's indeed made by instructions from Fåglum or as some have suggested "any frame Miki had on the shelf".

I also found this, which might be a Shimano-frame..?
lh6.googleusercontent(dot)com/-0v7QEiimHUY/UgPMxM1ijeI/AAAAAAAAGMc/3ZIibgxWkro/s800/IMG_5649(dot)JPG

Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
I've seen quite a few early aero frames but offhand I can't recall one like this. Generally, the down and seat tubes are either aero along their full lengths or aero in the middle with round ends, to allow the use of standard lugs and clamp style front derailleurs. Your frame appears to have down and seat tubes that are aero at the top and middle but round at the bottom bracket end. If so, this is an interesting compromise that would result in both good aerodynamics and a stiff bottom bracket. I guess I shouldn't be surprised to see such a novel solution coming from a family of TT specialists!
Wow! I would never have thought about that, it is true, they are round at the bottombracket!
In my quest to go to the bottom of this, no pun intended, I stumbled upon a reply you made in a thread about a SR-frame! I had no idea that there actually was an aero BB shell, I've really been trying to find any info about the Tange Aero. Is there any catalogue out there where it was featured?

Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
What I find most interesting about this frame is that it utilizes the aero head and seat lugs but a standard BB shell. Consequently, the tubes transition from round at the bottom, to aero in the middle and top. There was an aero BB shell developed for the Tange Aero tubeset, so I find it a bit bit strange that they didn't go full areo, though they would have had to spec the brazed-on Dura-Ace AX front derailleur.
Could it be that I have SR-bike?
An image of an SR that looks very similar but in a different colorscheme.
bikeforums(dot)net/18575453-post101.html

Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Regardless, thank-you again for the submissions. I'll add Fåglum to the list.
*Feeling a bit star-struck here*

Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
BTW, I saw what you did with your forum name.
Shhh..it's a secret!

Anyway, thank you so much for the input! I love when a bike has a story even if (or maybe just because), I will never learn the complete storyline. Even doing maintenance on a bike like this I can find new stories. So it might be that this is in fact "just a regular japonese bike", as some have suggested, but to me it will never be
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Old 10-19-19, 08:02 AM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by atayim View Post
I am from Sweden so that is correct, but the Miyata is actually from the Netherlands where I lived some ten years ago! I read somewhere that very early Koga-Miyatas came with Miyata headbadges. I found from cykelhobby(dot)se that Miyata was actually imported to Sweden by Sjöstrand Bike Company in Gothenburg.
Thank-you. That clears up the apparent anomaly.

Originally Posted by atayim View Post
...Did you mean that Seraph was the Anglicized name?
No, I was referring to the company name being Anglicized. Many Japanese companies Anglicized their name after WWII or when they started marketing outside Japan.

Originally Posted by atayim View Post

Any way, I did find some clues!
Quoting a different thread with a similar question on this forum, bikeforums(dot)net/16581528-post24(dot)html

So of course I found this frame in a Swedish fixie-forum! farm4.static.flickr(dot)com/3548/3459877930_1e77b6b562_z(dot)jpg
I didn't get a reply from the owner yet, so not any closer to understanding what the frame is, if it's indeed made by instructions from Fåglum or as some have suggested "any frame Miki had on the shelf".

I also found this, which might be a Shimano-frame..?
lh6.googleusercontent(dot)com/-0v7QEiimHUY/UgPMxM1ijeI/AAAAAAAAGMc/3ZIibgxWkro/s800/IMG_5649(dot)JPG



Wow! I would never have thought about that, it is true, they are round at the bottombracket!
In my quest to go to the bottom of this, no pun intended, I stumbled upon a reply you made in a thread about a SR-frame! I had no idea that there actually was an aero BB shell, I've really been trying to find any info about the Tange Aero. Is there any catalogue out there where it was featured?


Could it be that I have SR-bike?
An image of an SR that looks very similar but in a different colorscheme.
bikeforums(dot)net/18575453-post101.html
When designers go to a contract manufacturer, they have several options. They can choose a standard frame design and just specify the colour and decals. This is typically the least expensive. For more cost they can start customizing the frame by specifying different geometry and fittings from the wide selection that most manufacturers offer. Or they can go the complete custom route where they also work with the tubing and fitting manufacturers to develop proprietary tubing and fittings.

I should point out that companies like Faglum rarely worked directly with the manufacturers. They worked though a intermediary called a trading company, who represented the manufacturer.

The SR does resemble your frame. We know that SR did use Miki as a contractor, so there is that tie. Ultimately, what you have is a Miki branded as a Faglum. What we don't know is if it is a standard Miki frame or if the Faglum and SR designers just happened to select a similar set of options.

Sorry, I'm not aware of any online catalogues featuring the Tange Aero tubesets.

Last edited by T-Mar; 10-19-19 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 11-03-19, 04:31 PM
  #191  
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N(1): Japanese Raleigh Touring bike, serial number N0Pxxxx, where xxxx is a four digit number. I believe this serial number means November 1980. 18 speed touring bike. Model name and decals are mostly gone. Double butted 4130 main tubes.
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Old 11-15-19, 08:14 PM
  #192  
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Very helpful, thank you
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Old 11-19-19, 06:11 PM
  #193  
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My Sekine SHS frame has a serial starting with X so it should be 1975. Odd thing is there is no space after the letter and number which follows.

Anyway, pics
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Old 11-19-19, 06:13 PM
  #194  
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Here you go for the bank, T-Mar:

Fuji S10-S LTD #77L05722

So I'm assuming it's a '78?
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Old 11-20-19, 12:48 PM
  #195  
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Originally Posted by 3speedslow View Post

My Sekine SHS frame has a serial starting with X so it should be 1975. Odd thing is there is no space after the letter and number which follows.

Anyway, pics
Yes, that should be an SHS frame. All the Sekine models that used the SR Silver crankset had the atypical 70mm BB shell. I'm used to seeing the serial number space between the month indicator and sequential number string. We rarely see Sekine from this period with a longer than five character sequential number string. This plus a place holding zero has leaning me towards a November manufacture. There's bit of disagreement over the Sekine codes, complicated by the facts that there was little model change in the mid-1970s and that the components were consolidated in Japan, instead of being direct shipped from the manufacturers to Canada. Consequenbtly, take the year with a bit of salt. I'd probably just casl it mid-1970s. Thxs for posting.
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Old 11-20-19, 12:56 PM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by 2cam16 View Post
Here you go for the bank, T-Mar:

Fuji S10-S LTD #77L05722

So I'm assuming it's a '78?
Yes, given that it was manufactured in December 1977, I'd assume it to be a 1978 model. Thxs for the contribution.
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Old 12-01-19, 09:08 AM
  #197  
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So glad I found this thread! Been trying to ID a Cycle Pro I just picked up. T-Mar, you have the Dodsun format as follows. DSym mxxxx(x) Is the space between the m's there for a reason, or is it a typo? My Cycle Pro serial number is DS25600802. Obviously the 56 isn't a month, so I am assuming 5 is the month? Anyway to ID the model? It appears identical to an 82 Bonzai or Macho, but the rear dropouts are way shorter than those two frames.
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