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GCN proves 90s Trek bike as fast as $10k aero super bike

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GCN proves 90s Trek bike as fast as $10k aero super bike

Old 08-07-19, 05:27 PM
  #51  
colnago62
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
So you agree the title of the post is wrong? Its one thing to argue if the cost is worth it, it is another to say two things are the same when they aren't
I agree. To some a few seconds here or there donít matter.
For some they do. It is disingenuous for the op to post that two bikes are just as fast in the title and then talk about about how one is almost as fast as the other in the rest of the posts.


Last edited by colnago62; 08-07-19 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 08-07-19, 05:42 PM
  #52  
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@MyTi:
Not your best work.
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Old 08-07-19, 05:49 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
So you agree the title of the post is wrong? Its one thing to argue if the cost is worth it, it is another to say two things are the same when they aren't
Intentionally misleading click-bait, but I fell for it. I even watched the video.
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Old 08-07-19, 06:01 PM
  #54  
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Mostly that GCN test proves that you can't fairly compare bikes that aren't the right size for both riders. Si is taller and looked like he was riding a clown bike on the borrowed aero bike.

The comparison might have been more relevant if each had ridden his own personal best bike.

But I don't care. GCN videos are always entertaining anyway.
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Old 08-07-19, 09:03 PM
  #55  
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Times are only one part of the equation. There's something to be said about material and geometry that leads to less rider fatigue.

That's a bit harder to measure.
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Old 08-08-19, 05:37 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
What's up with the guy walking on water?




-Tim-
I can't believe we have yet to find out.... inquiring minds want to know. This is killing me.
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Old 08-08-19, 05:49 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by hubcyclist View Post
This is probably as close to a real life experiment one can get and the difference likely came to my body position vs his.
Yeah, probably. Does your position have any more drop than his?
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Old 08-08-19, 06:37 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by hubcyclist View Post
If I'm following, OP is supposed to be some type of troll? I don't hang around here enough to know who's who. But I'm going to provide a bit of practical real world experience that I think illustrates that all the hand-wringing over wheels/weight for a lot of cyclists is a bit overblown. Recently, I rode a loop on my entry level Allez, stock rims. The same day and within a few minutes of my own ride (I started at 11:41am and he started the loop at 11:49), a friend of mine who is an accomplished masters racer with a carbon bike and carbon aero wheels. He and I are about the same size and build. I completed the loop in 37:52 averaging 212w (max 558w), he completed the loop in 38:10 also averaging 212w (max 565w). I don't know his NP, but I can't imagine it would be much different, we were both doing steady endurance and no interval work. This is probably as close to a real life experiment one can get and the difference likely came to my body position vs his. So I do think in quite a few cases, folks are spending a lot of money for almost no perceptible gain.
Maybe, maybe not. Sure, the saying is power is power, except that different meters read differently. If you were not on the same type of PM, and your PMs were not calibrated accurately, it's quite possible one of you was putting out more power than the other.
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Old 08-08-19, 06:38 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
The winner of our local "A" training crit last night was on that exact frame last night. Nice looking bike.
Thanks!
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Old 08-08-19, 07:17 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Yeah, probably. Does your position have any more drop than his?
I would doubt my position would be lower than his, at the time I still had my stock 100mm stem at the -6 degree angle and not a lot of saddle-bar drop, so if anything I would naturally be more upright. After a year of owning my bike I finally changed to 115mm (also -6 degree). He probably has a more aggressive position due to his being a specialty crit guy, so who knows what was going on that day with our riding or maybe just small differences in NP.

I've been down the road of looking at gear for marginal gains, and I love geeking out, but for me the gear and even speed is secondary to watts and doing what it takes to improve my watts at various durations.
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Old 08-08-19, 07:45 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
Times are only one part of the equation. There's something to be said about material and geometry that leads to less rider fatigue.

That's a bit harder to measure.
They also didn't try to measure differences in acceleration, where I expect the gains from the superbike are even more significant and at least as important in a bike race. The point of the video seemed to be to reassure us slow old pikers that we don't need to spend a lot of money on a superbike and can just keep riding our trusty old C&V frames with some new parts every once in a while, which is what we have been doing anyway. The only difference is that we normally don't repaint so we can preserve the "patina", which for me at least is just an excuse not to go to the trouble or expense of repainting an old bike frame.
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Old 08-08-19, 05:39 PM
  #62  
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There's a perception among many recreational cyclists that a huge difference in speed exists between a modern, expensive, aero bike and a heavier/older/less aero bike. Last week I was riding with a bunch of guys with my hybrid-convert-to-drop-bar commuter road bike, and doing just fine. At the end of the ride one of the guys commented something like, "you were able to keep up with that bike?" He himself rode an expensive Cervelo S-something with aero wheels. So tests like the ones on GCN shouldn't surprise anyone.
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Old 08-08-19, 06:45 PM
  #63  
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"There's a perception among many recreational cyclists that a huge difference in speed exists between a modern, expensive, aero bike and a heavier/older/less aero bike."

I get people coming into the shop asking for an aero helmet all the time. After asking what TT's they have done and how their bike is outfitted, it becomes apparent they are looking for a cheap solution for increased speed. I almost always tell them to save their pennies and dimes, and get aero wheels. On a 15 mile course, the payoff will be noticeable. The helmet, no so, especially at the speed they are turning.
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Old 08-09-19, 10:45 AM
  #64  
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So what does the average 2.5-3k carbon disc bike weigh now coming from the factory? I'm looking at the Trek site now. It has the $3799.99 Domane listed at over 20lbs and the $2499.99 listed at nearly 20lbs. Neither with pedals, etc. It that about what it is across the different manufacturers? They've lost the weight advantage because of the disc braking systems? That doesn't seem like much of a reason to upgrade.
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Old 08-09-19, 11:05 AM
  #65  
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My C3 was $4k. With hydraulic disc brakes, deep wheels, and heavy power meter pedals, it's 18 lbs.
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Old 08-09-19, 11:06 AM
  #66  
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I ride old steel bikes so I have a built in excuse for falling behind
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Old 08-09-19, 11:11 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
My C3 was $4k. With hydraulic disc brakes, deep wheels, and heavy power meter pedals, it's 18 lbs.
So you have to lay down some serious coin to get it back down in the 17-18lb range. I understand.
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Old 08-09-19, 11:14 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
So what does the average 2.5-3k carbon disc bike weigh now coming from the factory? I'm looking at the Trek site now. It has the $3799.99 Domane listed at over 20lbs and the $2499.99 listed at nearly 20lbs. Neither with pedals, etc. It that about what it is across the different manufacturers? They've lost the weight advantage because of the disc braking systems? That doesn't seem like much of a reason to upgrade.
The Domane is on the heavy side in terms of frames. It began life as an endurance bike. When the gravel bike craze hit, Trek did not have one in their lineup, so they basically took a Domane and called it a gravel bike. I wonder if they made some spec. changes to make the bike more gravel worthy (which it really isnít). I was surprised at how heavy my Domane was after riding Madones for years. I donít think it is because of the disc brakes. It is something about how the frame itself is designed.
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Old 08-09-19, 11:28 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
So you have to lay down some serious coin to get it back down in the 17-18lb range. I understand.
I haven't really loved at other bikes lately, that's the only data point I have. For what it's worth, the pedals could weigh half a pound less and be a lot cheaper.
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Old 08-09-19, 11:30 AM
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I was wondering how those people that talked about how heavy a 20-21lbish bike is coped when they upgraded to a bike that was back in that weight range again. Seattle Forest answered my question. They don't, they shell out more coin to get a lighter bike.
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Old 08-09-19, 11:53 AM
  #71  
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This is why I was asking. This bike weighed 22ish give or take a 1/4lb(I don't have the exact weight in front of me currently) as it is pictured. It was built up for a climbing ride I do yearly with a triple/11-38 8 speed cassette. Nothing particularly weight weenieish about it. If you're telling me I have to spend 3- 4k to see some real weight savings, that would be a hard sell. Sure, I would get some better braking, maybe some better shifting. But I could also spend a grand on a modern group, better wheelset, saddle, etc. and get it under 20lbs if that was really important to me. That's a decision each rider has to make.


Last edited by seypat; 08-09-19 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 08-09-19, 12:01 PM
  #72  
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My Bianchi Oltre XR3 disc is 18lbs, which replaced a Bianchi 928 rim brake bike that was ~16.5lbs. I think I can get it back down in weight to the same range with about another $1k invested
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Old 08-09-19, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
I was wondering how those people that talked about how heavy a 20-21lbish bike is coped when they upgraded to a bike that was back in that weight range again. Seattle Forest answered my question. They don't, they shell out more coin to get a lighter bike.
In the Domaneís case, I donít think there is very much you can do to lighten it up. Mine has carbon bars and stem. Carbon saddle and 30 mm carbon wheelset. If you subtract 1lb. for the fenders, it still is a heavy bike compared to a lot of other road frames.
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Old 08-09-19, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
My Bianchi Oltre XR3 disc is 18lbs, which replaced a Bianchi 928 rim brake bike that was ~16.5lbs. I think I can get it back down in weight to the same range with about another $1k invested
So it's all about how much you want to spend. It's always about the money.
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Old 08-09-19, 12:34 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
So it's all about how much you want to spend. It's always about the money.
TBF the rim brake bike was pretty much upgraded everywhere too. I think the only things left stock on the frame were the seatpost and headset. Pretty sure the disc bike has more potential to weigh less as the frame is lighter too
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