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Self inflating tire?

Old 10-22-19, 07:44 AM
  #1  
Notso_fastLane
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Self inflating tire?

This is an interesting concept.

If the CRR is low enough, I can see some situations where it would be useful, but for those of us that already check our tires ~weekly, maybe not so much?

I wonder how well this would work in conjunction with a good flat sealant (I have been really happy with Flat Attack)?


https://airwinder.com/

The tech page explains how it works: https://airwinder.com/technology/

I'm not going to get in on this kickstarter, but I'm going to watch and see if this actually makes it to market.
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Old 10-22-19, 07:57 AM
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Looks like a non-cycling student did a "project" for a non-cycling instructor, and they went off open loop.

30 seconds thing by a cyclist here...

What happens if a piece of glass or metal, or a thorn, punctures the inflation tube? (No pumping.)

So you have to buy an integrated tire and matching tube. How do you patch the tube?

Give the kid an A for originality, pat him on the head, and send him (or her) to Econ and Accounting classes.
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Old 10-22-19, 08:11 AM
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I can see how the principle could work, but I'm not sure if such system would be capable to generate more pressure than there is in the tire at any given moment - which would be needed to actually pump some air into the tire.
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Old 10-22-19, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
What happens if a piece of glass or metal, or a thorn, punctures the inflation tube? (No pumping.)
That's what the super-tough anti-puncture layer is meant for.

Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
So you have to buy an integrated tire and matching tube. How do you patch the tube?
It says nothing about tubes, so I imagine it is meant for tubeless setup.
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Old 10-22-19, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Notso_fastLane View Post
This is an interesting concept.

If the CRR is low enough, I can see some situations where it would be useful, but for those of us that already check our tires ~weekly, maybe not so much?

I wonder how well this would work in conjunction with a good flat sealant (I have been really happy with Flat Attack)?


https://airwinder.com/

The tech page explains how it works: https://airwinder.com/technology/

I'm not going to get in on this kickstarter, but I'm going to watch and see if this actually makes it to market.
A solution in search of a problem. This can't really do anything about a sudden flat, and I don't think anyone finds the occasional top-off a serious problem. Does anyone spend more than 2 minutes per week pumping up non-leaky tires?
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Old 10-22-19, 08:27 AM
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Color me skeptical. I'd be a late adopter, after a few years of many people on Bikeforums posting how great it is...

I check the air in my tires every other ride, correcting as necessary. Some people hate to check/add air, to me it's just a normal part of my pre-ride process. My buddy hates checking the tires so much that he bought a Specialized Alibi with airless tires. To each their own! Viva la difference!

Last edited by Rje58; 10-22-19 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 10-22-19, 08:46 AM
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Yeah, I didn't look to see where the wannabe manufacturer is from, but I suspect this is intended for the casual rider/commuter that hates to put air in their tires. I've known commuters who don't even own a pump, and just put air in at the gas station when they think about it, so....

I can also see this being useful in touring situations, where the tire pressure automatically 'sets' as the temperature changes. Other than that, definitely not for 'serious' riders.
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Old 10-22-19, 09:10 AM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by subgrade View Post

It says nothing about tubes, so I imagine it is meant for tubeless setup.
From the "Technology" page:

"As the tire turns, it pushes the air forward through the pumping mechanism and into the inner tube."

I think the theory is that the mechanism gets squeezed between the tire and the tube, so it wouldn't work on a tubeless setup.

Does it sound like they have a working "proof of concept" model?
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Old 10-22-19, 10:54 AM
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My expert opinion: Probably will never work.

Their "pump" is a tube between the tire tread and casing. The "pumping action" relies on tire contact patch deformation to squeeze air through the tube.




Squeezing a tube is a very crude mechanism to try to get several atmospheres of pressure, even in the best situation. I seriously doubt they can manage it in a tire.

Then there's the reliability/safety issue of putting a flexible tube between the tire casing and the tread. No thank you.
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Old 10-22-19, 11:22 AM
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Why doesn't someone invent something really useful, like an electronic oil slick sprayer like the Batmobile had? Draft me on the M.U.P. without permission? I don't think so. Instead, we get things like disc brakes, gravel bikes and 1x drivetrains.
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Old 10-22-19, 12:41 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Squeezing a tube is a very crude mechanism to try to get several atmospheres of pressure, even in the best situation. I seriously doubt they can manage it in a tire.
I have a suspicion that the 'pumping tube' can never have a higher pressure than the tire itself.
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Old 10-22-19, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
A solution in search of a problem.
So was most of the tech developed for the Space Race in the 60's

In the public sector none of those solutions had problems they could solve. But once the solutions were out there, we found problems to use them on and tech exploded in the public sector.

Nothing wrong with developing technology just to the heck of it and without a clear viable practical purpose.

This concept is cool. It's over thinking a bike tire flat. But the concept is cool and when put in front of enough eyes, I'm sure someone will see an alternative use for it.
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Old 10-22-19, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Why doesn't someone invent something really useful, like an electronic oil slick sprayer like the Batmobile had? Draft me on the M.U.P. without permission? I don't think so. Instead, we get things like disc brakes, gravel bikes and 1x drivetrains.
Put some Penzoil in a water pistol and boom....you're the Bat Bike.

Wanna automate it? Just get a windshield washer tank and pump from an older car, hook it up to a small battery and put a button on the handlebars.

(I may or may not have had this idea before and have already given it way more thought than I should have. Maybe.)
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Old 10-22-19, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by subgrade View Post
I have a suspicion that the 'pumping tube' can never have a higher pressure than the tire itself.
I knew there was something "perpetual motion" about it--I think that's likely right.
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Old 10-22-19, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by subgrade View Post
I have a suspicion that the 'pumping tube' can never have a higher pressure than the tire itself.
Sort of. I assume the thin tube running through the middle (?) of the tire is fairly small. The squeeze from the tire can locally be higher pressure than the gross pressure of the tire, which is much larger volume. This can work in using that method. It's not intended to refill a tire after being patched, or running out of air because of an actual puncture or leak. It's only going to be capable of small volume, which means maintaining, or inflating a slightly under-inflated tire.

It's the same idea behind a hydraulic lift similar to what's used for cars. You have a small pump making fairly moderate pressure, but it moves a lot of liquid (slowly) over time. You can lift a car with only 10 psi, it just takes a large area.
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Old 10-22-19, 03:26 PM
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And to think I solved this problem simply by buying a small air compressor.
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Old 10-22-19, 08:11 PM
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Nakano Air Hub:

https://www.amazon.com/Nakano-Air-Hub/dp/B019NR0Q2C
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Old 10-22-19, 10:38 PM
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Can it even work? Once the tire gets above atmospheric pressure, the pressure inside the tire will squish the tubing shut.
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Old 10-25-19, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
Once the tire gets above atmospheric pressure, the pressure inside the tire will squish the tubing shut.
The tube is open at one end to tire pressure, so the pressure inside the tube and tire should be the same.
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Old 10-25-19, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
Nothing wrong with developing technology just to the heck of it and without a clear viable practical purpose.
A polluted and warming Mother Earth would like to disagree....
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Old 10-25-19, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Digger Goreman View Post
A polluted and warming Mother Earth would like to disagree....
Oh goody...virtue signaling....just what this thread needed

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Old 10-26-19, 02:37 AM
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Why don't you try a different option?
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Old 10-26-19, 02:40 AM
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This is quite something else.
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Old 10-26-19, 06:48 AM
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For the tube pump to work, the pressure in the tire needs to be higher than in the tube, or it won't compress. But the the air doesn't flow into the tire.
It would need some pressure doubler.

Remonds me of my ideas to build a perpetum mobile... when I was 8.
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Old 10-26-19, 07:17 AM
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Ok, reading comprehension time.

The website took 5 minutes to read and is devoid of anything that would make it above an 8th grade reading level.

The product is intended for commuter and city bikes (35-45mm wide tires, pressures from 65-35psi) seeing frequent use. Not high pressure skinnies.
Best bet on construction is that it's similar to a clincher tubular tire. They won't fully explain the trade secret because 'trade secret', but the pumping tube is likely outside the casing under the tread. Some one way valves are capable of stepping pressure up around the wheel to overcome internal pressure.

Biggest downsides are increased rolling resistance and potentially abnormal handling, depending on the valves and how much volume the pumping channel uses.

Maybe for mtb tires too, but the amount of pumping needed for loaded touring, sport, and road tires is likely impractical.
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