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Silly chainring questions.

Old 11-18-19, 12:26 PM
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stardognine
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Silly chainring questions.

Hi folks, I'm tuning up an old Cannondale Killer V, that's new to me this month. It has a CODA crank, made by Sugino, with 22-32-42 chainrings (all in great shape). I also salvaged some like-new S-R chainrings, that are 28-38-48.

Now to explain my situation & goals, I have hardware in one knee, and ride largely for the physical therapy. I also tour, but very slowly, lol. 😉 The point being, I can do some miles, but I'll probably never need a 48t chainring, even going down mountains.

I definitely want to keep the 22t granny ring, but not really sure about the others. Obviously, that takes the 28t ring out of the picture, but I'm not sure what I want or need, past that.

I've read that some gearing gives you duplicate gears, but I don't have enough experience to know what those are.

BTW, I'm thinking 22-32-38 might be what I want, but I'm not sure if that'll work, since those are both middle rings. Since they're both offset, by the bolt-holes, I mean. Most of you know what I mean better than I'm saying it, I bet. 😉

And finally, if I should just leave the 22-32-42 alone, don't be afraid to say that. I might be just going to a lot of trouble, for nothing. 😁😉

Thanks much, I appreciate any help. ✌️
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Old 11-18-19, 12:48 PM
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It appears you already have all those rings. Try some different combinations and pick the one you like best.
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Old 11-18-19, 01:04 PM
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The image below is from the link shown - using a 700c - 32mm tire and 22-32-42 with an 11-32 cassette.

I have a set-up very similar to this on an 'adventure' bike with big tires (55mm) and like it very much - plenty of crawl gears and enough high-end to pedal up to about 22 mph or so.

I don't care about gear combo overlap - the calculator allows you to see for yourself on your set-up


Bicycle Gear Calculator

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Old 11-18-19, 01:08 PM
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And, if the 42T is too big for you I wouldn't hesitate to install a 38T outer ring.

I run a 39T big ring (double crank) on an all-around bike and find it is a good size to allow me to not shift off the big ring until I hit big hills. This is with a 10 speed 11-32 cassette.
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Old 11-18-19, 04:47 PM
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I like this calculator since it allows you to compare two setups side-by-side: https://www.kstoerz.com/gearcalc/compare/
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Old 11-18-19, 05:26 PM
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One consideration is the front derailleur if you go to a 22/32/38 chainring configuration. Many current front derailleurs require a 10 tooth minimum difference between adjacent chainrings so the inner cage plate clears the smaller ring unless you position the fd higher than desired on the seat tube.
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Old 11-18-19, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
I like this calculator since it allows you to compare two setups side-by-side: https://www.kstoerz.com/gearcalc/compare/
This helps a great deal, thanks. 👍 The more I look, and figure things out, the more I think I'm going at this thing backwards. Maybe I should leave the 22t & 32t alone, and swap in the 48t ring, for the most range? 🤔 Better to have the higher option, even if I hardly ever use it, right?

Thanks for your input, everyone, I do appreciate it. 🙂
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Old 11-18-19, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
probably not.
One can't really tell until they know the range of the cassette you are going to use.
IF an 11T small cog, a 48T would be a waste if you actually have knee problems.
"Hardware" isn't really descriptive.
I agree and I tend to go with a lower gearing and spin more, I find it less tiring and easier on my knees than the converse. I swapped a 46T ring onto my 22-32-42 crankset and soon swapped it back out. What cassette were you considering using?
Edit: you can post a link of your calculations using the "Copy" button at the bottom of the calculator I linked to.
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Old 11-18-19, 08:52 PM
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Hey there star dude.
Heck, just leave the 42 32 22 as is, they work great for the touring that you're doing. You are covered from practically 5kph to 40kph, and yes your knees will enjoy the 32 and22 rings.
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Old 11-18-19, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
probably not.IF an 11T small cog, a 48T would be a waste if you actually have knee problems.
I wish there were more alternatives to 11T small cog cassettes. Most 10-speed and nearly all 11-speed cassettes start with an 11T and for most riders that's a wasted cog. Campy used to make 13x26 and 13x29 10-speed cassette and they were nearly ideal pared with a 50/34 or 52/39 crank. Shimano still makes 12x28 and 12x30 10-speed cassettes but they are hard to find and probably not going to be around long. Their 12x27 10-speed, that included the super useful 16T cog, is now out of production.
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Old 11-19-19, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
Hey there star dude.
Heck, just leave the 42 32 22 as is, they work great for the touring that you're doing. You are covered from practically 5kph to 40kph, and yes your knees will enjoy the 32 and22 rings.
Yep, I already appreciate the heck out of that 22t ring. 👍 I'm going to just leave it alone for now, and keep carrying the extra chainrings, in case I change my mind later. 🤔😁 Especially since I might be buying yet another bike, for parts, which happen to be XTR. 😍

I thought I mentioned the cassette earlier, but maybe I only punched it into that calculator. 🙄😉 It has a 7-speed on it now, on an Acera-X hub, which is low on the list of rankings, but still in excellent condition. I had planned to upgrade to a new cassette & chain next month, probably 9-speed, but now I'm being tempted with that XTR stuff, so we'll see. 😎
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Old 11-19-19, 10:15 AM
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I and others have toured a lot on mtb cranks, and I personally find them to be great for loaded touring, especially in mountains, but in the end, its up to you if you find the mid ring too small. Personally I find it to work fine, and get into the 44 regularly, bot not annoyingly so often, and find the triple mb setup to be super practical. Plus, you are carrying all that crap on your back ;-) so lower gearing is understandably appreciated.
Riding lightly or unloaded mtb chainrings can be a bit small, with more back and forthing between mid and large ring, this is clearly why the classic 48/36/26 type cranks are so versatile for a touring bike, and easy to put a 24 or even 22 instead of the 26, but modern rd's can do 36t cassettes, so even a 26t granny gives a really nice low gear.
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Old 11-19-19, 10:39 AM
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Another way to compare gearing. Bicycle Gear Inch & Shifting Pattern Calculator
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Old 11-19-19, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jlaw View Post
That gear calculator is really nice. There is also an option to turn on gear inches. Conversion: development meter = gear inches x 25.4 / 1000 x 3.1416

Here is my setup, but on a 55mm x 406 tire. The circumference that the calculator uses is usually much higher than what you actually have on your bike.

My shifting is very simple and fairly linear. I'm lacking the high gears, but they're used so infrequently that it doesn't really affect a ride except by at most 1 minute.

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Old 11-19-19, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
8 or more speed cassettes don't fit on the shorter 7 speed Free Hub body.
Roger that, but the wheels on the other bike would make that particular upgrade un-necessary. 😉
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Old 11-19-19, 12:48 PM
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Just be aware of rear dropout width and potential issues, like 126 vs 135 or whatever
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Old 11-19-19, 01:07 PM
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Tom3, interesting 10spd 12 to 34 you set up there. Nice 12,13,14,15,17,19,21 spread, with the larger bail out ish 28 to 34 jump.
I rode a 50/40/24 a lot, so know a 16t jump in real life, don't you find the 20t jump annoying?

In any case, like you said, if the 70 whatever g.i. top is fine for you, you really do have a lot of nice close gears in that range we are riding in most of the time, must be nice around the cruising speeds that are so common.
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Old 11-19-19, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
So now you add "another bike" with unknown details into the equation?
Do you really expect us to keep track of what you think you might do?
I'm done.
I don't know what that's all about, but who asked you to "keep track of" anything? I don't need your attitude, & doubt if anyone else does. If you had actually read that post about the "other" bike, you'd easily see, that it's a potential purchase, that came up after I started this thread, which "would" change the whole situation. That's "if" I get it. 🙄

Regarding the original issue, I was just asking a simple question, to see if there were any issues I might not be seeing, BEFORE I tear the bike's drivetrain halfways apart.

Rant over, and apologies to the innocent bystanders. 😉
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Old 11-19-19, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by stardognine View Post
I don't know what that's all about, but who asked you to "keep track of" anything? I don't need your attitude, & doubt if anyone else does. If you had actually read that post about the "other" bike, you'd easily see, that it's a potential purchase, that came up after I started this thread, which "would" change the whole situation. That's "if" I get it. 🙄

Regarding the original issue, I was just asking a simple question, to see if there were any issues I might not be seeing, BEFORE I tear the bike's drivetrain halfways apart.

Rant over, and apologies to the innocent bystanders. 😉
Exactly my point.
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Old 11-19-19, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
Exactly my point.
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Thank you. 😎
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Old 11-19-19, 04:43 PM
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How are you dissatisfied with the 22 32 42 gearing? If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.
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Old 11-19-19, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
How are you dissatisfied with the 22 32 42 gearing? If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.
Yep, back in post 11, I said that I'd leave it alone, as is. 👍 There never was a problem, I just thought I'd see what folks thought about me changing any rings, since I had them anyways. Kinda like 2 heads are better than 1, in case someone saw something I didn't. 🙂
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Old 11-19-19, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
Tom3, interesting 10spd 12 to 34 you set up there. Nice 12,13,14,15,17,19,21 spread, with the larger bail out ish 28 to 34 jump.
I rode a 50/40/24 a lot, so know a 16t jump in real life, don't you find the 20t jump annoying?

In any case, like you said, if the 70 whatever g.i. top is fine for you, you really do have a lot of nice close gears in that range we are riding in most of the time, must be nice around the cruising speeds that are so common.
I don't think there's anything wrong with a 20t jump. It makes it more easy for me to know when to shift because the range is very linear. I only shift at the very bottom or at the very top, there isn't much overlap between the small and big chainrings. This is because the 20t jump causes the outer 3 cogs to rub the chain against outer chainring when running on the inner chainring, so I can't use those 3 gears. So when I'm on the inner chainring and accelerating and reach 7th gear, I simply shift the RD to 3rd gear, all 4 indexes in one press of the trigger, then upshift the FD. When I'm on the outer chainring going uphill and I reach 2nd gear, I simply downshift the FD, then shift the RD to 6th gear, 4 individual presses of the trigger. Although my Shimano trigger has trim index, I set it up so that the trim doesn't do anything (the FD spring eats the trim from the H limit screw) because I'm using a SRAM Rival YAW FD, which doesn't need trim because of the wider cage and pivoting tail.

20t jump is more difficult to adjust the FD cage position, but once it's set right, it works fine. The chain sometimes drops on the inside, so a SRAM chain catcher fixes this. It's only long enough to catch 20t jump. I think 22t jump is too low for the chain catcher, unless you glue some kind of extension to the end of it.

I am usually somewhere between 50 and 70 gear inches, average of 60 gear inches. The close gearing lets me choose one that keeps me around 74-82 rpm. The only thing I don't like is the 13.3% jump between 51.2 and 58.1 gear inches, the 17T and 15T cogs. I wish I could stick in a 16T cog, but that would mess up the rest of the stepping down the range for the 10 speed cassette. I could do it on an 11 speed, but I don't have the chain clearance to the 55mm tires for the extra 4mm that the chain would move inwards due to the extra width of the 11 speed cassette.

I built my 10 speed cassette from 3 different sets. The 12-24 comes from a CS-4600 12-30, which you can only find on eBay, since it's out of production. The 28T comes from the HG-500 11-32, and the 34T from the HG-500 11-34. Be careful because some sets don't shift together at all.

You could possibly get 12-21T from the HG-500 12-28T if you can't find a new(old) CS-4600. But then you're missing the 24T cog.

For 10 speed, Miche lets you mix and match cogs, but it only goes up to 30T. Although 11 speed is available up to 34T. I wonder if you could simply stick on the 34T 11 speed cog onto the end of 9 cogs of 10 speed.
https://www.miche.it/pub/media/produ...t__primato.pdf

(edit: or maybe get 9 cogs of 12-28 from Miche and stick on the last cog 34T from Shimano.)

Last edited by tomtomtom123; 11-19-19 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 11-19-19, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tomtomtom123 View Post
I don't think there's anything wrong with a 20t jump. It makes it more easy for me to know when to shift because the range is very linear. I only shift at the very bottom or at the very top, there isn't much overlap between the small and big chainrings. This is because the 20t jump causes the outer 3 cogs to rub the chain against outer chainring when running on the inner chainring, so I can't use those 3 gears. So when I'm on the inner chainring and accelerating and reach 7th gear, I simply shift the RD to 3rd gear, all 4 indexes in one press of the trigger, then upshift the FD. When I'm on the outer chainring going uphill and I reach 2nd gear, I simply downshift the FD, then shift the RD to 6th gear, 4 individual presses of the trigger. Although my Shimano trigger has trim index, I set it up so that the trim doesn't do anything (the FD spring eats the trim from the H limit screw) because I'm using a SRAM Rival YAW FD, which doesn't need trim because of the wider cage and pivoting tail.

20t jump is more difficult to adjust the FD cage position, but once it's set right, it works fine. The chain sometimes drops on the inside, so a SRAM chain catcher fixes this. It's only long enough to catch 20t jump. I think 22t jump is too low for the chain catcher, unless you glue some kind of extension to the end of it.

I am usually somewhere between 50 and 70 gear inches, average of 60 gear inches. The close gearing lets me choose one that keeps me around 74-82 rpm. The only thing I don't like is the 13.3% jump between 51.2 and 58.1 gear inches, the 17T and 15T cogs. I wish I could stick in a 16T cog, but that would mess up the rest of the stepping down the range for the 10 speed cassette. I could do it on an 11 speed, but I don't have the chain clearance to the 55mm tires for the extra 4mm that the chain would move inwards due to the extra width of the 11 speed cassette.

I built my 10 speed cassette from 3 different sets. The 12-24 comes from a CS-4600 12-30, which you can only find on eBay, since it's out of production. The 28T comes from the HG-500 11-32, and the 34T from the HG-500 11-34. Be careful because some sets don't shift together at all.

You could possibly get 12-21T from the HG-500 12-28T if you can't find a new(old) CS-4600. But then you're missing the 24T cog.

For 10 speed, Miche lets you mix and match cogs, but it only goes up to 30T. Although 11 speed is available up to 34T. I wonder if you could simply stick on the 34T 11 speed cog onto the end of 9 cogs of 10 speed.
https://www.miche.it/pub/media/produ...t__primato.pdf

(edit: or maybe get 9 cogs of 12-28 from Miche and stick on the last cog 34T from Shimano.)
interesting stuff. Ya, I remember the 10spd 12-30, a real nice cassette with all the nice jumps like my 12-27 9spd, but with the 30 added on. As you say, nearly all cassettes are 11 to whatever now.
The bike I toured on for years had the 16t jump, and I found it a bit annoying , more cuz it was a dt shfter bike, so I totally understand how with trigger shifters, a bunch of fast quick shifts arent a big deal.
That said, this is why I still love a triple, to have a nice straight chain line and have a good range of gears overall. Ive toured a lot on a 44/32/22 and it works fully loaded up in mountainy terrain really well, and I live with the larger % jumps in spots--13 to 15% are liveable for me, although I would like to go to 10 spd at one point as I could bring them down like you have.
I guess in the end, I can live with 13 or more % jumps , and honestly, while I appreciate making ones own cassette, I can live with store bought stuff , but it is always interesting to see folks like you who have made some nice working setups---but thanks for the details of which ones you used etc.
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