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spoke lace question

Old 02-04-11, 04:34 PM
  #1  
deacon mark
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spoke lace question

On a typical 36 or 32 hole 3 cross lace, is it necessary to go under the first 2 spokes then go on the outside of the 3rd spoke. I rebuilt this rim and simply laced it all under the spokes on the cross. Is that not good or is it ok? I hope this makes sense in how I stated the question.
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Old 02-04-11, 04:50 PM
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3-cross is under 2 over one.
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Old 02-04-11, 05:01 PM
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Although you could complete the build as-is, I believe you would end up with a wheel that wasn't as durable. I think this is because the spokes somehow benefit from being able to brace on each other under torque etc.. Whatever the reason, it's not an accident that every published wheel builder teaches it this way. It is important to do things the right way. If I were you, I would chalk the lost time up to the learning process, and start over again, this time doing it correctly. Good luck, and take your time. Nobody ever rushed through their first wheel build and ended up with a strong wheel. Slow and patient is the way. If you don't have the patience, I'd recommend that you just have someone else do the building. Best of luck.

-Jeremy
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Old 02-04-11, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by davidad View Post
3-cross is under 2 over one.
IIRC, lacing the heads out spokes first is far easier than the alternative, so the second half of the lacing process will in fact be over, over, under.

By lacing the heads in spokes first, your final side spokes will be difficult to get laced without overly bending the spokes to get them rotated up toward the rim after they've been laced through the flange.

-Jeremy
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Old 02-04-11, 06:14 PM
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the weave contact is just the last , outermost cross.
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Old 02-04-11, 06:21 PM
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You're going to lose some lateral stability especially in the turns. However, they build radial wheels without any crossing of spokes. Lacing of wheels is dependent upon the weight of the rider, the type of riding - rough roads, turns, quick starts, power, and how long do you want your rims to last. Once a rim gets a distortion, it's permanent, then you have to adjust the spoke tension to get the wheel straight, the spoke tension will then be uneven.
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Old 02-04-11, 07:05 PM
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depending on if it is a disc wheel, or rear wheel, some/most prefer the pulling spoke to cross over/outside the 3rd spoke.
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Old 02-04-11, 07:13 PM
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I may be completely mistaken, but intuitively it seems to me that trailing spokes crossing outside is both a fraction more aero and perhaps slightly more laterally stable under braking.
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Old 02-04-11, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
the weave contact is just the last , outermost cross.
At the man said - rephrased - the last count is the count that you weave.

=8-)
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Old 02-04-11, 07:38 PM
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Thanks for the help! I will just redo the lacing this is a practice run wheel. The next great question is if a spoke tension meter is really necessary?
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Old 02-04-11, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Soil_Sampler View Post
depending on if it is a disc wheel, or rear wheel, some/most prefer the pulling spoke to cross over/outside the 3rd spoke.
Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
I may be completely mistaken, but intuitively it seems to me that trailing spokes crossing outside is both a fraction more aero and perhaps slightly more laterally stable under braking.
Wait, what were we talking about again?

Not every wheel thread has to morph into a podium for us to yell lacing preferences at each other from. I know there are some of you who can offer an answer to the question asked...not questions that weren't asked.

-Jeremy
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Old 02-04-11, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Tunnelrat81 View Post
Wait, what were we talking about again?

Not every wheel thread has to morph into a podium for us to yell lacing preferences at each other from. I know there are some of you who can offer an answer to the question asked...not questions that weren't asked.

-Jeremy
Exactly! It's unnecessary because the simple straight forward answer to the question was covered by fietsbob and I - count 1 - count 2 - weave! No preference statement needed. Cause it applies either way.

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Old 02-04-11, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
Thanks for the help! I will just redo the lacing this is a practice run wheel. The next great question is if a spoke tension meter is really necessary?
I now own a tension gauge, but have built a few wheels without it, and haven't had any trouble with those wheels either. I would suggest that on a 32 or 36 spoke wheel, you'll be able to do a very good job building without one. I finally bought one only because I was building a lower spoke count set and wanted to make sure I brought everything high enough, not specifically for balancing tension. The balancing can be achieved within a very reasonable margin simply by plucking spokes and 'tuning' them roughly together. That's how I did my first wheels.

In addition, it's probably a good idea to build a few wheels without one just to get more familiar with how they feel and sound at various tensions. Would suck to be a wheel builder who can only work on a TS-2 with a FSA tension gauge in hand. Get some experience on a practice wheel that you can experiment on, test and re-true etc., and when it comes time to build some more 'risky' wheels, maybe get the meter for that. That way you'll be adequately equipped on the side of the road with only a spoke wrench and brake calipers to work with.

-Jeremy
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Old 02-05-11, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
Thanks for the help! I will just redo the lacing this is a practice run wheel. The next great question is if a spoke tension meter is really necessary?
For almost all of us yes, unless you use the Jobst Brandt's method of tensioning until the rim warps and then backing off and giving a final truing and stress relieving.
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Old 02-05-11, 02:21 PM
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I never build a wheel or initially true a wheel without using a tensionmeter.
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Old 02-05-11, 02:46 PM
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OTOH. I have some 30 year old wheels, I built, that are still fine ,
I've never owned any tensionmeter ..
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Old 02-05-11, 03:15 PM
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at work, i build a lot of custom track wheels, and can get them really close to correct just by feel becasue I am consistently using the same hub and rim combos. When something different comes along, i break out the tensiometer a lot earlier than just the final checking.
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Old 02-05-11, 03:30 PM
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Gerd Schraner("The Art of Wheelbuilding", who does it for a living thought he didn't need a tensiometer either. His experience showed him otherwise and he uses one.
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Old 02-06-11, 06:39 AM
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I've built a wheel using Sheldon Brown's guide. He suggests Doing the 'heads out' spokes first, and that on the rear wheel these should be trailing spokes unless you have disc or drum brakes. Front wheels without discs or drums can be done either way, and on my bike the front wheel is laced alternately, so that one set of leading and one set of trailings spokes are 'heads out'.

I've never used a tensionmeter other than plucking the spokes during building to check for even tension. During the trueing of the wheel, the spoke tensions will end up slightly mismatched anyway. I true the wheel, then check the pitch of each spoke to check they're roughly similar.
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